rmc523 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The larger more entrenched problem with Caddy and Lincoln is that they just aren't seen by the larger public as the premium brands of their parent company any longer - for the most part they're simply an expensive trim level that has a price tag putting them into competition with brands that really are perceived in this day and age with a Premium moniker and thus justifying Premium pricing, i.e. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Land Rover, perhaps Volvo. Sure Caddy has the lumbering Escalade that fills the large SUV niche nicely, but after that, what do these brands really offer at the premium price point other than past prestige notoriety when they really were the US Premium game in town? Not much. Dumping Billions into brands that aren't really even seen as true premium anymore just for the sake of nostalgia doesn't really seem all that smart to me when those funds could go towards the betterment of their existing bread and butter line. Eh. My question is - why are those brands held in such high regard? I mean you look at some of their products, especially features wise and you notice you can get the same or more tech standard on Fords that are thousands of dollars worth of options on the "prestigious" luxury brands. Over time, they've earned that image. It's been mentioned before how various Mercedes vehicles basically ride the coat tails of the S-Class name/prestige. With BMW, it kinda works the opposite way - they're known for the 3 and it works upwards. Audi is somewhere in the middle of those two I'd say. Land Rover is obvious with the Range Rover. My point is - it's taken years for them to develop that image to where they can command that premium pricing and people don't think twice about paying extra for options that should (in my mind) be standard on a so-called luxury car. They built a solid foundation on which to construct their brand and image. That's the stage where Caddy and Lincoln are right now. They're trying to build a solid foundation on which to elevate their brands - albeit with two completely different approaches to money allocation - and like it or not, that's an expensive, but critical part of the process. The transformation from tarnished (or rather, tired/old) luxury brands back to being considered one of the premium brands alongside BMW, MB, Audi, etc. will take years to occur, but you have to start somewhere. That said we can now look at the two approaches taken by Cadillac and Lincoln, and I'm not trying to sound like a Ford fan boi or anything like that in these comments. I'll address Cadillac first: Cadillac has taken the product-first route to trying to re-establish its credibility. Ok - they viewed product as their biggest issue and have targeted that to improve. And really, I don't think anyone is arguing whether or not Cadillac has produced good products when you go through and check the boxes - they have. How much has that cost them? They've spent billions of dollars doing that. And what has that gotten them? You look at sales results and brand perception, and sales of everything but Escalade are down. What's their solution? Let's throw billions more at it and see what happens. As has been discussed before, their target market doesn't align with their buyer pool. Lincoln on the other hand is taking the more restrained approach of building from the ground up. They've improved service, dealer appearance, and customer service first with the same product to sell. Now they're beginning to get new, relevant product to go along with that improved dealer experience. Early trends with MKC and to a lesser extent MKZ are positive, or at the very least, headed in the right direction. They also aren't trying to go after pie in the sky customers and radically alter their target market (yes they are, but not to Caddy's extent). Is Ford going to pour billions into Lincoln? Yes. But I think they'll have a better foundation on which to build. Really only time will tell what will happen with both brands, but Lincoln's path seems to be a smarter, more efficient one at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Lincoln's path is not only safer - limiting investments to maintain profits - but they're starting with the foundation: dealer experience and luxury features (black label, Revel audio, etc.). And they're focusing on the highest volume market segments first. By the time they bring out the big gun products they'll have all the other pieces in place to sustain sales and profits. Meanwhile Caddy will have lots of really great products that nobody wants to buy at premium prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I've been trying to find out how many Lincoln dealers Ford has. The last article I read from 2012 is that there were now around 325 in Metropolitain areas - down from 500. I seem to remember that reducing the number of Lincoln dealers was an expensive undertaking. Some of what is going on with Cadillac reminds me of Ford's Premier Automotive Group efforts 15 years ago when they brought in that BWM executive to lead the division. That didn't last long. Last week Lincoln president Kumar Galhotra said there are still 909 Lincoln dealers in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Love the nice bump in sales Navigator is having, can't help wondering what if it also had 5.0 V8 like f150. Ford might really scare themselves just how many dales are possible.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Love the nice bump in sales Navigator is having, can't help wondering what if it also had 5.0 V8 like f150. Ford might really scare themselves just how many dales are possible.. I was shocked when I found out the Navigator isn't offered with a V8 anymore. I hope that changes when the all new one comes out in a few years. Totally wasted potential of you asked me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I've been surprised how many new gators I've seen out and about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I was shocked when I found out the Navigator isn't offered with a V8 anymore. I hope that changes when the all new one comes out in a few years. Totally wasted potential of you asked me Since the ecoboost 3.5 is so much better of a performer, I don't suspect people in a navigator will care. Most don't open the hood any way. Look at the f150. It was well received. Some will only want a v8 in a truck. But an urban assault vehicle, I don't think as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Since the ecoboost 3.5 is so much better of a performer, I don't suspect people in a navigator will care. Most don't open the hood any way. Look at the f150. It was well received. Some will only want a v8 in a truck. But an urban assault vehicle, I don't think as much. There has to be people that won't even give The Navi a look and buy an Escalade just because of the V8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Only a few. Not enough to make a real difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Escalade? Blech. If I were to buy a GM Full Size it'd be the Denali. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Last week Lincoln president Kumar Galhotra said there are still 909 Lincoln dealers in the U.S. I believe LincolnV was referring to dealers that sell only Lincolns. I recall reading that there were about 300 dealers that sell only Lincolns. I can believe that there are a total of 909 dealers that sell Lincolns, but that would include dealers that also carry the Ford franchise. For example, in Harrisburg there are three large Ford dealers. But only one of those dealers also carries a Lincoln franchise (L.B. Smith Ford-Lincoln in Lemoyne, a suburb of Harrisburg). The closest Lincoln-only dealer is located in Chambersburg, Pa. (about 60 miles southwest of Harrisburg). It was once a Lincoln-Mercury dealer, but when Ford phased out Mercury, the dealer stayed in business. It is not connected with the Ford dealer in Chambersburg. Edited January 26, 2015 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I believe LincolnV was referring to dealers that sell only Lincolns. I recall reading that there were about 300 dealers that sell only Lincolns. I can believe that there are a total of 909 dealers that sell Lincolns, but that would include dealers that also carry the Ford franchise. For example, in Harrisburg there are three large Ford dealers. But only one of those dealers also carries a Lincoln franchise (L.B. Smith Ford-Lincoln in Lemoyne, a suburb of Harrisburg). The closest Lincoln-only dealer is located in Chambersburg, Pa. (about 60 miles southwest of Harrisburg). It was once a Lincoln-Mercury dealer, but when Ford phased out Mercury, the dealer stayed in business. It is not connected with the Ford dealer in Chambersburg. I believe it is very similar to Cadillac's 928. They are not stand alone dealers either. I would guess low 300's for Lincoln and high 300's for Cadillac as stand alone dealers. As a stand alone dealer you would need a large population base. I listed the numbers for the competition. I do not know stand alone numbers. Chambersburg Pa defeats my theory. MB 364 BMW 339 Lexus 235 Audi 281 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) I believe it is very similar to Cadillac's 928. They are not stand alone dealers either. I would guess low 300's for Lincoln and high 300's for Cadillac as stand alone dealers. As a stand alone dealer you would need a large population base. I listed the numbers for the competition. I do not know stand alone numbers. Chambersburg Pa defeats my theory. MB 364 BMW 339 Lexus 235 Audi 281 The Chambersburg Lincoln dealer is a long-time dealer that has been in business since at least the 1960s. Then it was Forrester Lincoln-Mercury. When Mercury went away, it became Forrester Lincoln. I don't know how it survives only selling Lincolns. The dealer has been doing business at that same location - and out of the same building - for decades. Edited January 26, 2015 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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