LincolnV Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 How many rwd Benz and Bimms share a platform with less expensive, volume models and offer a pickup in the same company? What about Audi (and Lexus)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Says the person who can't explain double-entry accounting, cash flows, or opportunity costs. No, I care not to respond to you to play mind games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) There is nothing wrong with ATS and CTS, they are great vehicles, the problem is with the way they were delivered as a priority. Where is the replacement for the SRX, a vehicle that does a lot of heavy lifiting for Cadillac, or the compact Ute under it? Both of those could have been RWDs and done more by reaching more buyers in segments commanding premium prices The dynamic of delivering two RWDs forced Cadillac to make CTS bigger, encroaching on XTS, had the ATS been a compact ute, CTS could have remained original size and not affected XTS sales. But no, we must chase BMW.... How dare I question GM's wisdom....It really ann It really annoys me to see so many obviously good cars sitting in a giant parking lot and to hear GM basically blaming (lack of ) buyers for their plight.. This plain and simple an example of poor management. Edited December 21, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 That's far reaching if you think GM BK'ed because of Cadillac. You don't really have a clue why GM went bankrupt, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) Neither does GM..it was everyone else's fault. That's far reaching if you think GM BK'ed because of Cadillac. He never said that. GM lead the sales race all the way into bankruptcy. - What does that tell you? GM was consumed by a rising tide of debt and reducing income even though it was moving the most metal - Why? Like Ford, GM's primary income was derived form Trucks and High end SUVs, when those markets bottomed, so too did GM's revenue and capacity to pay its huge product cycle commitments. Instead of seeing the warning signs, Rick Waggonner scoffed at Bill Ford cutting the daylights out of Ford motor's production and borrowing the farm to do it. Less than two years later Waggoner and his lieutenants would be in Ford's office seking a merger of unequals where GM would run everything and seize Ford's $30 Billion enst egg...... Edited December 21, 2014 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 No, I care not to respond to you to play mind games. You don't understand what you're talking about, and you don't understand why people disagree with you, and what I don't understand is how someone who can't properly frame a rational thought about something feels equal to the task of discussing it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 The sad part is that so many GM fans are the same, ask any of them why their favorite RWD cars are piling up unsold and they're all dumbstruck. 16,000 ATS and 14,000 CTS sitting there with sales of around 2,000/mth a piece... I don't see how Cadillac gets out of this without throwing out their premium pricing discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) The sad part is that so many GM fans are the same, ask any of them why their favorite RWD cars are piling up unsold and they're all dumbstruck. 16,000 ATS and 14,000 CTS sitting there with sales of around 2,000/mth a piece... I don't see how Cadillac gets out of this without throwing out their premium pricing discipline. I don't understand some of the decisions they have made. First of all, what marketing do they have? Secondly, every time i turn around they are bringing something else to market that won't sell in high volume. They really are spreading themselves around as if they have the market for all these vehicles. On the Canadian website I see an ATS Coupe, a CTS Coupe and the ELR. Coupes don't sell in high volumes but they currently have 3. Then I see on auto websites that they now have the ATS-V and a new CTS-V coming. Why are they working on high-performance sport models (which sell far less than coupes I believe) when the core business isn't gaining momentum. Isn't anyone there to start slowing the development of some of these vehicles until there is a market for them? They are also still selling the CTS Wagon which in the number of year's it's been on the market, I have seen exactly 2. Speaking of the CTS, you have the new generation CTS 4-door selling next to the prior generation CTS Coupe and Wagon. And then, just as it seems they are once again copying other makes and offering the same sausage in different sizes, there are reports that the upcoming CT6 will follow the Arts and Sciences design of everything else - when they just brought out the wonderful looking El Miraj concepts and had everyone drooling. Edited December 21, 2014 by LincolnV 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Somewhat unrelated aside from being GM, but is it just me or does it seem like every month is "Chevy Truck Month" with some deal on a Silverado? But back on Cadillac....I think everyone agrees their new products are good vehicles, but there's obviously more to the problem than just making good vehicles. And they're realizing it now with the dealer comments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Oh God, Chevy Truck Month LOL. That kinda sounds about right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Here is the new CTS-V: http://www.autoblog.com/2014/12/22/2016-cadillac-cts-v-official-photos-detroit-auto-show/ It would appear it goes quite fast. Not sure who picked the black spoiler on a white car of this price range, yet it has a lot of horsepower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Caddilac: We love our halo cars!TM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Is that even going to outsell the ELR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 It's as though all effort is being channelled into this pinacle predator. Where is the same attention to detail in the rest of the ATS and CTS, so many 2.0Ts in inventory sitting like wallflowers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 The question is whether luxury car buyers really want that much performance. You can't use most of it on public roads anyway, and it's not as though today's average family sedan is a slug. It's almost as though GM is trying to create a leather-lined, four-door Hemi Road Runner for the 21st century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 The question is whether luxury car buyers really want that much performance. You can't use most of it on public roads anyway, and it's not as though today's average family sedan is a slug. It's almost as though GM is trying to create a leather-lined, four-door Hemi Road Runner for the 21st century. BMW sells plent of M products and Mercedes AMGs, so there is a market, whether te performance can be used or not....however, GM is treating it as a priority, whereas it should be down on the list behind a full line of crossovers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 BMW sells plent of M products and Mercedes AMGs, so there is a market, whether te performance can be used or not....however, GM is treating it as a priority, whereas it should be down on the list behind a full line of crossovers. And regular hybrids.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Yes, you could start a long list of other products missing from the showroom that are arguably more justified. Interesting to not the bulk of unsold ATS/CTS just happen to be 2.0 Turbos, maybe Cadillac's buyers prefer other larger engines like the 3.6 DI V6 and a NA 6.2 V8, the things GM won't sell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I saw the same CTS in my neighbourhood a couple of times yesterday. It was driving behind me at one point. I think the daytime driving light LEDs are a bit over done. From some angles they make the front end look huge - like a train cow catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 I saw the same CTS in my neighbourhood a couple of times yesterday. It was driving behind me at one point. I think the daytime driving light LEDs are a bit over done. From some angles they make the front end look huge - like a train cow catcher. Did somebody say cow catcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Did somebody say cow catcher? Is that the world's largest grill (to go along with the world's tallest tail lights)? I just priced a Platinum Escalade here in Canada. It starts at $100,610 before options and taxes. Then I think....."Who would pay that kind of money for a Cadillac?" Apparently a lot of people. Sales are up and I've seen several on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-S Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 The Escalade appears to be priced quite a bit higher than the Navigator as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) Is that the world's largest grill (to go along with the world's tallest tail lights) I think they were trying to one up the international lonestar. Edited December 24, 2014 by sullynd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) The Escalade appears to be priced quite a bit higher than the Navigator as well. I see that. I priced a top of the line Navigator L before options and it came to $87,210 before taxes. One thing about the Cadillac Escalade photo that Premierdrum posted. That massive front end is one piece. I can't imagine how much that would cost to replace if someone had a minor fender-bender. Edited December 24, 2014 by LincolnV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 And regular hybrids.... I agree with this, otoh I hear the ELR will be 4-door plus the additional crossovers along with the SRX replacement. Looks like it's taking a while because they're aligning the launches with the Chev,Buick and GMC counterparts. Hopefully they'll get the dealer issues under control soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.