Future Ford Small Cars

[Biker16]

Ford needs more product, I wouldn't take the sales from the Cmax or flex for granted, they will not be easily made up by other products.

 

There are things these products have that cannot be found in other vehicles in the lineup.

 

If they are profitable at the volumes they are being sold at, why not replace them?

[fuzzymoomoo]

C-max is getting a replacement. It's supposed to be for MY2019

[ds91776]

There is an article on GMI and FIN that suggests that the Focus "family" will expand for the fourth generation, including a "outback" package for the Focus Wagon ( presumably for Europe only ), a "Coupe," Convertible, and a hybrid version using the 3-cylinder engine. My reactions:

Focus Wagon "Outback": I see this as fairly likely, at least for Europe. Ford will no doubt expand the use of AWD across its lineup and this is a cheap and easy way to add sales and raise ATP on the wagon models. They even released a similar model late in the 2nd Euro generation.

"Coupe": This intrigues me because there are so many possibilities. One thing this could mean is that the 3dr hatchback will return...which makes the most sense because this segment still exists in Europe and it requires the fewest unique parts. Another possibility is an outright Focus 2dr. While this would be cool...it would require completely unique sheet-metal, with the possible exception of everything forward the A-pillar. The last possibility is not a Focus coupe, but a coupe/hatchback based on the on the Focus platform. This seems like the least likely scenario to me, but maybe Ford sees an opportunity. Could we see the return of the Ford Capri? Or would they come up with a new nameplate?

Convertible: Of all the options the article brings up...this seems the least likely. The sales just aren't there and Buick is already taking up this slot in North America...and they already have the Mustang convertible. Yes, there are more competitors in Europe in this segment...but I just don't see it happening.

Focus Hybrid: I do believe that a "Focus" hybrid could use the 3cylinder engine for the gas portion of the powertrain. But the rumors of a Small Car Hybrid Family coming from Ford soon makes me think that this is what the article is referring to, NOT a Focus Hybrid. But his brings up a good point. Ford needs to come up with an excellent name for its Small Car Hybrid Family. I think one of the C-Max's problems in North America is that the name is TERRIBLE. So this time around, I hope Ford picks an great name. Any ideas?

[Harley Lover]

But the rumors of a Small Car Hybrid Family coming from Ford soon makes me think that this is what the article is referring to, NOT a Focus Hybrid. But his brings up a good point. Ford needs to come up with an excellent name for its Small Car Hybrid Family. I think one of the C-Max's problems in North America is that the name is TERRIBLE. So this time around, I hope Ford picks an great name. Any ideas?

 

I think this has moved beyond rumor stage, and has been confirmed informally by Ford. Naming could be very interesting.

[theoldwizard]

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Escape/Kuga

 

Introduction of new 7 speed DCT, 9 speed ATX and larger displacement EB I3.

Is that comma meant to imply AND or OR ? I can not see Ford making 2 "automatic" transmission for C-sized cars, unless Lincoln is pushing the ATX.

 

The current DCT in the US Focus has not been well received. Of course all of the original development was done on B-sized cars. It was slotted into the C-sized Focus at almost the last moment. If they are going to make a new DCT, I'll bet it will have wet clutches !

[Biker16]

Is that comma meant to imply AND or OR ? I can not see Ford making 2 "automatic" transmission for C-sized cars, unless Lincoln is pushing the ATX.

 

The current DCT in the US Focus has not been well received. Of course all of the original development was done on B-sized cars. It was slotted into the C-sized Focus at almost the last moment. If they are going to make a new DCT, I'll bet it will have wet clutches !

 

You already have both the DCT and the 6F on the C-platform. it would make sense that the New DCT would be capable of handling the <200ft/lbs segment While the conventional 9spd ATX would cover the > 200ft/lbs segment.

 

So I am assuming that the New and improved wet DCT would be placed in the fusion and Escape where the 6F and 2.5/1.5GTDi/1.6GTDi combo is used presently, prviding more MPGs than the 9 spd ATX would deliver.

[630land]

We will not see any return of a "ZX3", "ZX2", or trendy FWD coupe. And don't ever expect any 'station wagons' to make a comeback too.

 

Unless someone can invent a time machine and make it "stick to their favorite era", 80's for coupes, 50s for wagons.

 

Anything from GMI or FMI whatever is pure 'dreams of posters'. Just like the vaporware "GRWD" or the "next gen Panther replacement".

Edited February 10, 2015 by 630land

[akirby]

Again - GRWD was a real program that got canned when Ford hit hard times in 2008.

[Biker16]

We will not see any return of a "ZX3", "ZX2", or trendy FWD coupe. And don't ever expect any 'station wagons' to make a comeback too.

 

Unless someone can invent a time machine and make it "stick to their favorite era", 80's for coupes, 50s for wagons.

 

Anything from GMI or FMI whatever is pure 'dreams of posters'. Just like the vaporware "GRWD" or the "next gen Panther replacement".

 

Are you sure?

 

The Capri AKA focus coupe was shelved during the unpleasantness of a few years back. this whole US centric ness miss the other parts of the world where Small car dominate.

 

If there is Focus coupe the US will see it.

[630land]

Dream on. Trendy, 'cute', coupes are last century. Waste of R&D for something that is out of style in a year.

 

The Scion and Subaru RWD coupe was supposed to "bring back driving" and now it's faded from limelight. Only the big 3 Pony Cars still sell in OK numbers.

Where is the 3 door MkIII Focus? Not in beloved 'drivers paradise' Europe.

 

One other factor, today's 20-somethings see cars as 'transportation' and are not into buying used FWD coupes and adding "mods" like 10 years prior. Can't afford to dump $$ into mods as well. More likely a used CUV, with 'connectivity', versus 'more power'.

[Fgts]

There is an article on GMI and FIN that suggests that the Focus "family" will expand for the fourth generation, including a "outback" package for the Focus Wagon ( presumably for Europe only ), a "Coupe," Convertible, and a hybrid version using the 3-cylinder engine. My reactions:

 

Focus Wagon "Outback": I see this as fairly likely, at least for Europe. Ford will no doubt expand the use of AWD across its lineup and this is a cheap and easy way to add sales and raise ATP on the wagon models. They even released a similar model late in the 2nd Euro generation.

 

"Coupe": This intrigues me because there are so many possibilities. One thing this could mean is that the 3dr hatchback will return...which makes the most sense because this segment still exists in Europe and it requires the fewest unique parts. Another possibility is an outright Focus 2dr. While this would be cool...it would require completely unique sheet-metal, with the possible exception of everything forward the A-pillar. The last possibility is not a Focus coupe, but a coupe/hatchback based on the on the Focus platform. This seems like the least likely scenario to me, but maybe Ford sees an opportunity. Could we see the return of the Ford Capri? Or would they come up with a new nameplate?

 

Convertible: Of all the options the article brings up...this seems the least likely. The sales just aren't there and Buick is already taking up this slot in North America...and they already have the Mustang convertible. Yes, there are more competitors in Europe in this segment...but I just don't see it happening.

 

Focus Hybrid: I do believe that a "Focus" hybrid could use the 3cylinder engine for the gas portion of the powertrain. But the rumors of a Small Car Hybrid Family coming from Ford soon makes me think that this is what the article is referring to, NOT a Focus Hybrid. But his brings up a good point. Ford needs to come up with an excellent name for its Small Car Hybrid Family. I think one of the C-Max's problems in North America is that the name is TERRIBLE. So this time around, I hope Ford picks an great name. Any ideas?

Coupe/convert. (styled) = Probe

Hybrid = Focus Energy

Focus X-over(in which I suggested)=Focus X

[atomcat68]

I thought the name Escort would be perfect for a dedicated hybrid, but they use that name on the Chinese car now.

[ds91776]

I agree, Atomcat68, "Escort" would have been a cool name for the Hybrid car. Even though we in North America are denied the new Escort ( which I think looks pretty good ), I'm glad the name is back at Ford. I always liked the 1997 Escort.

[Biker16]

Dream on. Trendy, 'cute', coupes are last century. Waste of R&D for something that is out of style in a year.

 

The Scion and Subaru RWD coupe was supposed to "bring back driving" and now it's faded from limelight. Only the big 3 Pony Cars still sell in OK numbers.

Where is the 3 door MkIII Focus? Not in beloved 'drivers paradise' Europe.

 

One other factor, today's 20-somethings see cars as 'transportation' and are not into buying used FWD coupes and adding "mods" like 10 years prior. Can't afford to dump $$ into mods as well. More likely a used CUV, with 'connectivity', versus 'more power'.

Its a top hat, not much R&D in a top hat with 2 fewer doors.

 

It should be profitable. By definition not every car has to be 100% practical to be profitable.

[akirby]

Taking a sedan and making a coupe is a lot more than a top hat. Length, width, wheelbase, roof line, doors, etc. are all different at a minimum.

[Biker16]

Taking a sedan and making a coupe is a lot more than a top hat. Length, width, wheelbase, roof line, doors, etc. are all different at a minimum.

No that is a top hat. The foundation is the same. Only the top above the wheels change.

 

How is this any different than the Mkc or Mkz? Or even the C-max, edge or escape? What is the fucking point of flexible platform if you cannot cost effectively build more products on them?

 

This isn't rocket science, don't fall into the chorus of can't.you cannot convince me that the MKC is an easier top hat than a coupe based on our best selling product?

Edited February 12, 2015 by Biker16

[fuzzymoomoo]

In NA, MAP doesn't have room in Body and Stamping for the tooling needed to do a coupe or 3-door.

[akirby]

No that is a top hat. The foundation is the same. Only the top above the wheels change.

 

How is this any different than the Mkc or Mkz? Or even the C-max, edge or escape? What is the fucking point of flexible platform if you cannot cost effectively build more products on them?

 

This isn't rocket science, don't fall into the chorus of can't.you cannot convince me that the MKC is an easier top hat than a coupe based on our best selling product?

 

When you start changing wheelbase and track then it's more than just a top hat. And it has nothing to do with whether it can be done or not - coupes don't sell so you can't even recoup the costs of a new top hat. Other mfrs are cancelling their coupes left and right. What do you know that they don't know?

[Edstock]

Other mfrs are cancelling their coupes left and right. What do you know that they don't know?

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but it seems that when you add Rest of the World sales, MB has C, E and S-class coupes, BMW has 3, 4, and 6 series coupes, Audi has the A-5 and TT coupes, Lexus and Infiniti have theirs, as well as Nissan's 370Z and Jaguar.

 

There seems to be enough world-wide sales to justify the tooling costs for these manufacturers. Maybe it's just not all about the US?

[akirby]

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but it seems that when you add Rest of the World sales, MB has C, E and S-class coupes, BMW has 3, 4, and 6 series coupes, Audi has the A-5 and TT coupes, Lexus and Infiniti have theirs, as well as Nissan's 370Z and Jaguar.

 

There seems to be enough world-wide sales to justify the tooling costs for these manufacturers. Maybe it's just not all about the US?

 

We're not talking about $50K luxury coupes. We're talking about mainstream $20k-$30K coupes.

Edited February 12, 2015 by akirby

[Biker16]

In NA, MAP doesn't have room in Body and Stamping for the tooling needed to do a coupe or 3-door.

No surprise there, the flex plant with no flexiblity.

 

When you start changing wheelbase and track then it's more than just a top hat. And it has nothing to do with whether it can be done or not - coupes don't sell so you can't even recoup the costs of a new top hat. Other mfrs are cancelling their coupes left and right. What do you know that they don't know?

so the last focus,and escort coupes had a different track and wheelbase? Edited February 12, 2015 by Biker16

[bzcat]

 

We're not talking about $50K luxury coupes. We're talking about mainstream $20k-$30K coupes.

 

These all fall in your price range

 

VW has Beetle and Scirocco, plus Golf 3 door

GM has Astra coupe

Renault has Megane coupe

Honda has Civic coupe

Hyundai has Elantra coupe

Kia has Forte coupe

Toyota has 86

Mazda has MX-5

 

It's not a growing segment like CUVs but it's still a significant market. The lack of 3 door Focus in the current generation is *probably* (pure speculation on my part) due to the financial situation Ford was in when development decisions had to be made. If that decision had to be made today, I would guess the 3 door or a coupe will make the cut.

 

I would not be the least bit surprised if 3 door Focus or a "Capri" coupe returns for the next generation Focus program.

Edited February 12, 2015 by bzcat

[LincolnV]

Didn't Hyundai just drop their Elantra coupe? It's still available here in Canada, but I hardly see any.

 

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/hyundai-elantra-coupe-reaches-end-of-the-road.html

 

Sorry for the link to Edmunds. At least they didn't take a sledgehammer to a Hyundai Elantra coupe.

[akirby]

Astra and Megane aren't sold in the U.S.

 

86 and Miata are separate vehicles, not 2 door versions of a 4 door vehicle.

 

Kia and Hyundai coupes are simply there because they're cheaper (if they still make them).

 

VW has their own historical following for beetles, golfs and scirroccos that other dealers can't duplicate.

 

That leaves the Honda Civic. In the U.S. at least.

 

It's really simple - if it was worth the investment we'd already have Focus and Fiesta 2 or 3 doors here since they're already made and sold in Europe (or they were).

[fuzzymoomoo]

No surprise there, the flex plant with no flexiblity.

 

so the last focus,and escort coupes had a different track and wheelbase?

It's not that it's not flexible, it's that they crammed too much into a tiny space. Someone didn't think they layout through very well when they designed and rebuilt it after they moved the Expedition down to Kentucky.