twintornados Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Wall Street Journal article Kinda figured it would happen soon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packardbob Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 A little help or a lot of help? Looks like they will just be slapping a Chevy or GMC badge on an Isuzu. Why not just buy an Isuzu? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 So they'll now have rebadged Nissan vans, and rebadged Isuzu trucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Unless Sergio can convince Isuzu to merge with him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Unless Sergio can convince Isuzu to merge with him.... That will convince GM to merge with him! Such a brilliant plan! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well not shocked but I thought for sure they would be in bed with Navistar in Escobedo with GM 3500 cabs going on the Navistar chassis in place of the Super Duty Cab. Then again, this is a much easier deal. And assuming they will be cab overs, this puts that much more pressure on Ford to come up with something beyond the big Transit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I think there will be more to come. This is just the start. In any event, it will make the dealers happy. Those Isuzu's are an easy sell around here, particularly the gas engine versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) " Well not shocked but I thought for sure they would be in bed with Navistar in Escobedo with GM 3500 cabs going on the Navistar chassis in place of the Super Duty Cab. Then again, this is a much easier deal. And assuming they will be cab overs, this puts that much more pressure on Ford to come up with something beyond the big Transit I believe that Ford would look at finally bringing CARGO style cabs to the North American medium truck line at Avon Lake. What would it take to "marry" the C816 Cargo cab to an F53 or F59 stripped chassis. Call it C-Series and call it a day... ADD ON: By importing only the cab....Ford would avoid the dreaded "chicken tax" as well. Edited June 15, 2015 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I believe that Ford would look at finally bringing CARGO style cabs to the North American medium truck line at Avon Lake. What would it take to "marry" the C816 Cargo cab to an F53 or F59 stripped chassis. Call it C-Series and call it a day... ADD ON: By importing only the cab....Ford would avoid the dreaded "chicken tax" as well. Agree 100%. Question- I'm too lazy to look it up- is the 6.7 available in the F53/59? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Agree 100%. Question- I'm too lazy to look it up- is the 6.7 available in the F53/59? Nope. Not a problem since I am sure the chassis underpinning F650/750 could also be used....and that one DOES have the 6.7L Powerstroke....my guess is that moving forward (no pun intended)..the F53/F59 chassis will have a diesel option....either the 3.2L or 6.7L.....or both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 GM is playing catch up but the solution is still just a rebadge... Looks like it will continue to be a marginal player without conventional medium duty offerings. On the other hand, Ford and International are the only player in the market without a cab forward medium. Daimler has Fuso Canter series, Toyota has Hino COE, Volvo has the UD cab forward, and Paccar has their rebadged DAF cab forward. And Isuzu of course only do cab forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Maybe Ford could do a Cargo cab on an F53/59 chassis and power it with a 6.7L, but I'll tell you right now it wouldn't be competitive with any Asian style LCF. Scorpion is far too large. That having been said, this is a segment Ford should be in. Actually, I think a class 4/5 LCF makes more sense for Ford than a limited option class 6/7. There, I said it! Compare total cost-of-ownership of a 5.2l diesel Isuzu NPR to a 6.7L F-450. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Maybe Ford could do a Cargo cab on an F53/59 chassis and power it with a 6.7L, but I'll tell you right now it wouldn't be competitive with any Asian style LCF. Scorpion is far too large. That having been said, this is a segment Ford should be in. Actually, I think a class 4/5 LCF makes more sense for Ford than a limited option class 6/7. There, I said it! Compare total cost-of-ownership of a 5.2l diesel Isuzu NPR to a 6.7L F-450. How about a Cargo cab on the F53 stripped chassis with a 3.2L 5 cylinder Powerstroke? That should about do it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Maybe Ford could do a Cargo cab on an F53/59 chassis and power it with a 6.7L, but I'll tell you right now it wouldn't be competitive with any Asian style LCF. Scorpion is far too large. That having been said, this is a segment Ford should be in. Actually, I think a class 4/5 LCF makes more sense for Ford than a limited option class 6/7. There, I said it! Compare total cost-of-ownership of a 5.2l diesel Isuzu NPR to a 6.7L F-450. Well I would not argue your point about the class 4/5 LCF. And I'm sure the Hino in that range is not much different than the Isuzu's in terms of operating cost. Something about 4 cylinders versus almost 7 liters of V-8. Too bad the 3.2 duratorque wasn't around when the Mazda based LCF was being built with the V-6 version of the Power Stroke. By the way-what was the chassis that was used for that truck? The Transit diesel is a nice package but again Ford needs something in the 14,000+ lb range and a 6.7 F-450 is not it IMO. When I see some of these "kid drivers" on the road in their LCF's, maneuverability all of a sudden is a real issue. Now TT, I did go on the commercial web site and looking at the F53/59 chassis, I would have to think it would be far cheaper to modify say a 650 lo-pro chassis to accommodate a Cargo cab, than to re-engineer the 53/59's to accommodate the Cargo. By the way, anyone have a clue as to the commonality of the old KTP assembled Cargo with say the old F-600, 700 chassis?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yes, the 3.2 Powerstroke would make a lot more sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Check Forbes today, GM is close to a deal with Navistar. I have heard bit and pieces of this since the beginning of the year, if what I have heard is true it's an interesting deal. Potentially more involved than 'Blue Diamond'. GM could have quite a portfolio of medium duty products before too long with this and the Isuzu deal. Edited June 30, 2015 by 7Mary3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Check Forbes today, GM is close to a deal with Navistar. I have heard bit and pieces of this since the beginning of the year, if what I have heard is true it's an interesting deal. Potentially more involved than 'Blue Diamond'. GM could have quite a portfolio of medium duty products before too long with this and the Isuzu deal. Checked it out-class 4,5 and 6. And agree excluding class 7, it appears they will give Ford a tussle in class 6 as well as 4 and 5 with their Isuzu 4 banger diesels. this looks like it will force Ford to rethink the "any color as long as its black" philosophy with the single diesel option 6.7/Torqueshift. No doubt that combo should be a very cost effective combo for a lot of the market. BUT, there still will be a segment that will NOT want a V-8 as complex (or thirsty) as the PS, or will not want an automatic or if they do, will insist on an Allison. As always, this will raise the bar IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I have doubts-- Why would I buy a GM-badged medium duty? I mean, pretty much all they've got to compete on is price, and how's that going to work if their stuff's selling at a discount even to Navistar and Isuzu products, but costs as much to manufacture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I have doubts-- Why would I buy a GM-badged medium duty? I mean, pretty much all they've got to compete on is price, and how's that going to work if their stuff's selling at a discount even to Navistar and Isuzu products, but costs as much to manufacture? My guess is the size of the GM dealer network is the biggest factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Agree 100%. Question- I'm too lazy to look it up- is the 6.7 available in the F53/59? Nope. You'd think that the 6.7 would be a great addition to those two products . In May, F Series stripped chassis production was 1,561 so maybe the numbers could be boosted with diesel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 You'd think that the 6.7 would be a great addition to those two products . In May, F Series stripped chassis production was 1,561 so maybe the numbers could be boosted with diesel? For sure. I would also think the 3.2 diesel would also be a great addition for the lowest GVW ratings. I think a lot of these applications DO run significant mileage/idling so the diesel option would make economic sense. Beyond 10,300 GVW looks like Ford has a huge void in the product lineup with respect to diesel power other than F450-550 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 My guess is the size of the GM dealer network is the biggest factor. I mean, that's why Isuzu does this deal, and why Navistar does it (and why I expect Renault/Nissan will eventually build Trafic vans for GM). But it doesn't seem like a particularly good deal for GM. I mean, sure they're theoretically back in medium duty, but it's a comparatively small market, and they're pretty much at the mercy of Isuzu & Navistar when it comes to product quality & features Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 True, but both Isuzu and Navistar are very experienced medium/heavy truck manufacturers. Looks to me that there will be a lot of opportunity for GM to offer a wide range of product at minimal investment. The Navistar deal in particular could result in a very price-competitive product. If they built it in Escobedo with a lot of existing Navistar and GM components they would enjoy economies of scale and many amortized parts. Not much to be spent on engineering either. We will have to wait and see how this plays out, but I can't help but wonder what Navistar and Isuzu look like together......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 but I can't help but wonder what Navistar and Isuzu look like together......... Navisuzu Something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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