ZanatWork Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Wow. Fire the whole product team. Brand new and dead last. I know the "C/D hates domestics!" crowd will be all over this, but here's my point: It's slowest. It has the longest braking distances. Its instrument cluster is truly, horribly, fugly. It handled worst. So...here's the point...if these measured performance failures are consistent from publication to publication, it's not some editorial opinion that sunk this barge-it's the engineers. The gauges really do remind me of 20+ year-old Fords I've owned. C/Ds verdict is very quotable: "What were they thinking?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Wow. Fire the whole product team. Brand new and dead last. I know the "C/D hates domestics!" crowd will be all over this, but here's my point: It's slowest. It has the longest braking distances. Its instrument cluster is truly, horribly, fugly. It handled worst. So...here's the point...if these measured performance failures are consistent from publication to publication, it's not some editorial opinion that sunk this barge-it's the engineers. The gauges really do remind me of 20+ year-old Fords I've owned. C/Ds verdict is very quotable: "What were they thinking?" Hate to say it, but I agree. The truck is FUGLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted August 29, 2006 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 Cancel this rolling fecal deposit before it gives the "Lincoln is dead" club the best ammunition they've ever had. Holy s***, Ford totall y blew the call. Brand new, worst in class. I'm seriously, tragically disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 What did they compare it to ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explorer4X4 Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 I like it. And, I think it will be popular. It looks like a luxury SUV, the Escalade looks like a rebadged Chevy Suburban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted August 29, 2006 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 What did they compare it to ? Escalade QX56 Q7 GL450 All were between 200 and 210 inches long. The Nav was biggest and (in keeping with current tradition) heaviest. Least hp Among worst in FE I may puke. If this is Lincoln's direction, I think it'd be the best brand to sell off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 How can the initial reviews on the Expedition be so good, and the Navigator be so bad? Dosen't make sense, are they not essentially the same vehicle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted August 29, 2006 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 The Expy isn't competing against a 400 hp Escalade, or entries from Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, or Audi. The Nav got its ass thoroughly kicked. The Expy only has to deal with Tahoes, Suburbans, Sequoias, and Titans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keoni Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 How can the initial reviews on the Expedition be so good, and the Navigator be so bad? Dosen't make sense, are they not essentially the same vehicle? Exactly, they're tvery similar vehicles in two differnent classes. I bet with a higher hp engine it would have done better in the rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGallun Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 why do you guys listen to these magazines? espeically C\D? They are very biased... heck, they said alot of goofy things about the fusion which were completely bogus, especially the 0-60 and 1/4 times.. plus, its all opinnion... everyone make your own, dont let a bunch of so called know it alls make you decide whats good and not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 The Expy isn't competing against a 400 hp Escalade, or entries from Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, or Audi. The Nav got its ass thoroughly kicked. The Expy only has to deal with Tahoes, Suburbans, Sequoias, and Titans. Ok, and besides gold lettering, the difference between a Sequoia and a LX is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 (edited) This is only somewhat surprising .. We all knew the negine is too weak for th e class - while Expy's class has plenty of 300hp runners, the Luxo-SUV's are all in 400's .. Also we should keep in minds that Q7 is nowhere near being a competitor to the Navi - it is Unibody midsize SUV. And even without that - Q7 is as all new as the Navi and the Escallade. Then only old runners in the comparo it the Lexus and the Infinity However , I am surprised handling and braking anf interior is bashed. The Expy was praised for handling, and besides the Q7 I do not see one truck in that group that handles well. Interior is matter of taste, but I sure would prefer real wood than the 'Lade's fake one .. ot the horrendous GL interior. I will wait until I can read the full review, to fully speculate, but while I was not expecting Navi to take the competition by the storm, I did not expect worse than midpack. Igor Edited August 29, 2006 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted August 29, 2006 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 why do you guys listen to these magazines? espeically C\D? They are very biased... heck, they said alot of goofy things about the fusion which were completely bogus, especially the 0-60 and 1/4 times.. plus, its all opinnion... everyone make your own, dont let a bunch of so called know it alls make you decide whats good and not. I've found that 99% of all "C/D is biased" whining to be just that-whining. The Fusion's performance times were consistent with most other publications'. The results wer actually better in C/D (2nd in comparo) than others I read, where the Fusion finished midpack. Again, the "bias" has seemed to be worst while Ford's car wer, by their own admission, non-competitive. I don't buy the "bias" at all, especially when my own driving experiences back up their stories repeatedly. Given that the Navigator is tallest, heaviest, and has the least power in class...why would any of those figures be false? Simple-they're not. The instrument panel is horriffic, and that's MY opinion. The Expy is a great deal, but the Nav is the junk of its class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Hopefully it will get a “Zephyr to MKZ†type update in 08 or 09 and get the 6.2L Hurricane standard and maybe an optional 7.0L with 450+ HP and fix that fugly front end & instrument panel. Otherwise, this thing may get the largest rebate Ford has ever offered just to sell a few. Why would anybody buy a Navigator over an Expedition Limited? The Expy offers the same of everything except the higher price. They really screwed themselves, again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Exactly, they're tvery similar vehicles in two differnent classes. I bet with a higher hp engine it would have done better in the rankings. Lexus LX 470 - 268 hp Dosen't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 (edited) C/D didn't like the first gen Expy when it was the top seller in its segment. Not sure I'd get too excited about their opinion of these vehicles, since their track record has not been to "be in love" with the vehicle that sells best or even fares well in the segment. Edited August 29, 2006 by Harley Lover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Is Ford really so stuck in their ways that they couldn't change a grille and instrument panel in the 8 months between its unveiling to when it goes on sale? They knew back in January that the public hated the looks of this thing. To even let it get to production is embarrassing. Sure, it's woefully underpowered for its size, but if it at least LOOKED elegant, I think reviewers may be a bit inclined to overlook other shortcomings a bit more. Ford, you screwed the pooch on this one. You should just delay it until you can redesign it. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J2D Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 C/D has always been a joke. Never in touch with the real world. and as far as the Navi goes, it should not have been released until it had a more powerful engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 the navi is in fact substandard and something Ford should not have let out of the gates unless its priced accordingly. Id give them a 3K premium over a loaded expy but thats about it on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted August 29, 2006 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 Just when you thought the Freestar would be a lesson to Ford.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Just when you thought the Freestar would be a lesson to Ford.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Lexus LX 470 - 268 hp Dosen't make sense. The Lexus isn't in the Comparo!!!!!! Atleast not in my issue of Car and Driver, and I doubt they edited my issue just because. To get back on topic Is it any suprise? You can call C&D biased all you want but they are 100% correct on this, Lincoln is the newest only to debut in last place among competitors, speaking of which I just got done taking a Ford Bold Moves survey where i get paid $5 a survey and they ask me what do I think about Fords current direction. LOL at that question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 (edited) C/D has always been a joke. Never in touch with the real world. and as far as the Navi goes, it should not have been released until it had a more powerful engine. That's B.S. (IMHO). I've read these guys (C&D) for at least a 15+ years, and I've rarely seen them not call a spade a spade. Road and Track on the other hand...... -Ovaltine Edited August 29, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoomerjrt Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Wow. Fire the whole product team. Brand new and dead last. I know the "C/D hates domestics!" crowd will be all over this, but here's my point: It's slowest. It has the longest braking distances. Its instrument cluster is truly, horribly, fugly. It handled worst. So...here's the point...if these measured performance failures are consistent from publication to publication, it's not some editorial opinion that sunk this barge-it's the engineers. The gauges really do remind me of 20+ year-old Fords I've owned. C/Ds verdict is very quotable: "What were they thinking?" I saw one a few weeks back at a fund raiser in Miami everyone that was looking thought it was a step backwards. I think its just that bland boring look Ford has been showing off, from the 500/Freestyle to the Edge, nothing to make you say WOW I WANT ONE!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Put a standard supercharger and requisite suspension and brakes, and charge whatever it costs. 2 versions, a standard 400hp and an optional 500hp. Get rid of that front end. This is not difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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