rmc523 Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 FIFY Yes Flex, and Taurus. I mentioned only the Explorer because it's by far the largest volume of them all, and if it weren't for it, the whole lot of them would be canceled/discontinued. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Let's not forget that in August, Ford shed 14,900 fleet sales compared to August 2015 and that 90% of those dropped sales were to daily rentals. Sure, Ford could hold the line but at what cost? Same with incentive spend in August, Ford held the line and lost about 5,000 retail sales all while dealers were in the middle of running out 2016 models. What we forget sometimes is that both Ford and GM's ATPs are marching higher all the time, that takes the sting out of losing maximum sales any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 (edited) Yes Flex, and Taurus. I mentioned only the Explorer because it's by far the largest volume of them all, and if it weren't for it, the whole lot of them would be canceled/discontinued. iirc, the Explorer was said to be the first vehicle going to cD6... ... Edited September 4, 2016 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 iirc, the Explorer was said to be the first vehicle going to cD6... ... I'm pretty sure that was (and still is) speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 The CD6 rumor started with Explorer and Aviator. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Perhaps CD6 is different to what some people think, a heavy evolution of D3? That could explain why some D3 vehicles will be staying well beyond 2020 and why Ford is in no hurry to cancel Flex and MKT..... just sayin'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 How about those Camaro sales !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 How about those Camaro sales !!! Not unexpected when GM follows the Alpha play book, premium product begets premium price which begets fewer buyers. Are three shifts necessary with around 10K alpha sales across Nth America? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Perhaps CD6 is different to what some people think, a heavy evolution of D3? That could explain why some D3 vehicles will be staying well beyond 2020 and why Ford is in no hurry to cancel Flex and MKT..... just sayin'. That platform is unsalvageable, especially since CD4 is a natural place to evolve future platforms from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Perhaps CD6 is different to what some people think, a heavy evolution of D3? That could explain why some D3 vehicles will be staying well beyond 2020 and why Ford is in no hurry to cancel Flex and MKT..... just sayin'. What products are staying beyond 2020? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 What products are staying beyond 2020? Supposedly the Taurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Supposedly the Taurus Eh, I don't believe that. They wouldn't keep it around as the only vehicle on the platform, and we know the rest of them are leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 (edited) Eh, I don't believe that. They wouldn't keep it around as the only vehicle on the platform, and we know the rest of them are leaving. Supposedly CAP isn't flexible enough to run multiple platforms. Do you (Fuzzy, not RMC) really think they'd keep a plant open for just that (minimal) volume? I suppose they could move it to OAC, but that too seems hardly worth the investment. Edited September 5, 2016 by sullynd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Supposedly CAP isn't flexible enough to run multiple platforms. Do you (Fuzzy, not RMC) really think they'd keep a plant open for just that (minimal) volume? I suppose they could move it to OAC, but that too seems hardly worth the investment. Why would they close the plant? Even if CAP isn't flexible enough for 2 platforms, they aren't losing the Explorer anytime soon. I'll admit I don't know anything about CAP other than what they build. This would be a question for Decker to answer (he works there), but he harldy ever posts lately and rarely outside of the employee forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 (edited) If Explorer goes CD6, it either stays at CAP, and CAP becomes a CD6 plant, or goes to another plant. If Explorer leaves CAP, Taurus/PI are not enough volume to keep CAP open. Edited September 5, 2016 by sullynd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 FIFY . More profitable than ford More volume than ford. more products than ford Consistent product refresh rate Cruze sales up. 52% Focus Sales down 26% Midsize pickup sales 4-5 years ahead of Ford. All-New Spark sales up 6% ALL-new Cruze Out sold the Refreshed Fusion. ALL-new Cruze Out sold the Focus almost 2 to 1. Pretty sure Ford could be 'holding ground' in cars too, if they adopted GM's underwriting standards. Do you have source that says GM sales increase are only driven by subprime buyers? if not why bother posting? Perhaps CD6 is different to what some people think, a heavy evolution of D3? That could explain why some D3 vehicles will be staying well beyond 2020 and why Ford is in no hurry to cancel Flex and MKT..... just sayin'. CD6 is not real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 If Explorer goes CD6, it either stays at CAP, and CAP becomes a CD6 plant, or goes to another plant. If Explorer leaves CAP, Taurus/PI are not enough volume to keep CAP open. Explorer isn't leaving CAP. It was agreed in the UAW contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Explorer/Aviator CD6 at CAP. Flex/MKT/Taurus go bye bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 CD6 is not real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Do you have source that says GM sales increase are only driven by subprime buyers? if not why bother posting? CD6 is not real. Presumably you have a source for that CD6 claim. Oh, you don't? Well, then, why bother posting? As far as subprime loans goes, yes, I do have a source. At a minimum, 12.7% of all GM sales this year were to subprime borrowers. https://www.gmfinancial.com/Docs/Investors/gmf-earnings-call-slides-q2-2016.pdf(pp. 5, 7) (34.3% of all GM retail sales initiated by GM Financial, 37% of all GM retail sales financed by GMF were to subprime borrowers, .343 * .37 = 12.7%) That's at a minimum. That does not include any subprime loans that may have been originated through another bank. By contrast: Ford Motor Credit's subprime portfolio represents 3.5% of all new Fords sold. https://credit.ford.com/webcontent/investorcenter/Ford_2Q_2016_Earnings_Presentation.pdf(pp. 4, 6) (59% of all Ford sales initiated by FMC, 6% of all FMC sales to 'high risk' borrowers That is your source for poor credit distribution between Ford & GM. As far as the balance of that poor credit being directed to car buyers, here's a telling source that provides a basis for inference: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-13/meet-preferred-subprime-cars-ranking-most-popular-car-loans-and-leases-fico-score Do you think that Cruze sales are now going to significantly more creditworthy individuals than they were 2 years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 All I'm saying is that we may be making assumptions about CD6 that go way beyond what it will actually be. Look at OAC, they run CD4 and D3 so perhaps multiple products has more to do with build sequence than anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 The local Chevy dealers have been advertising putting people with 400 credit scores in a new Chevy for at least 2-3 years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Presumably you have a source for that CD6 claim. Oh, you don't? Well, then, why bother posting? As far as subprime loans goes, yes, I do have a source. At a minimum, 12.7% of all GM sales this year were to subprime borrowers. https://www.gmfinancial.com/Docs/Investors/gmf-earnings-call-slides-q2-2016.pdf(pp. 5, 7) (34.3% of all GM retail sales initiated by GM Financial, 37% of all GM retail sales financed by GMF were to subprime borrowers, .343 * .37 = 12.7%) That's at a minimum. That does not include any subprime loans that may have been originated through another bank. By contrast: Ford Motor Credit's subprime portfolio represents 3.5% of all new Fords sold. https://credit.ford.com/webcontent/investorcenter/Ford_2Q_2016_Earnings_Presentation.pdf(pp. 4, 6) (59% of all Ford sales initiated by FMC, 6% of all FMC sales to 'high risk' borrowers That is your source for poor credit distribution between Ford & GM. As far as the balance of that poor credit being directed to car buyers, here's a telling source that provides a basis for inference: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-13/meet-preferred-subprime-cars-ranking-most-popular-car-loans-and-leases-fico-score Do you think that Cruze sales are now going to significantly more creditworthy individuals than they were 2 years ago? So are you assuming that The 56% growth in Cruze sales are from sub-prime lending? I don't see that listed in GM's presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 The local Chevy dealers have been advertising putting people with 400 credit scores in a new Chevy for at least 2-3 years now. And invariably, that's going to be one of the less marketable and less expensive products--like the Cruze, Sonic and Malibu. There's no reason to juice volume on a more popular product with subprime loans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 The local Chevy dealers have been advertising putting people with 400 credit scores in a new Chevy for at least 2-3 years now. I also saw an ad for $23,000 Taurus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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