Who is the wizard?

[uawworker]

uawworker is a fraud. He is trolling.

 

grindliner1968 exposed him earlier today.

 

I plan to ignore him from this point forward.

 

It is not I who is the fraud. Compare these two situations and then ask yourself, who is the fraud.

 

Consider the assembly line worker in the assembly plant. During the course of an eight-hour shift, he adds nearly the entire eight hours in value to the product being produced. In a one-minute period, the period by which he or she is measured, at least 55-58 seconds of work or product value is performed. The remaining 2-5 seconds are to enable to return to the beginning of the workstation for the next incoming job. Each minute a vehicle arrives and at least 55 seconds of work is performed by the assembler in that minute. The assembler is literally chained to the line. This assembler cannot use the computer, bathroom, call his wife, or perform any other personal needs, at will. This guy or gal is truly earning their $24 per hour. They are adding value to the product immediately that is actually in excess of what they are being paid. These people account for about 50% of the total hourly and salary workforce at Ford. I’m sure you would agree there is no fraud by these hard working people.

 

Now, consider this situation. You have well paid Ford employees (they know who they are) at locations (you know where they are) where there is no production. They get paid even more in their eight-hour shift than the assembly line worker. In an eight-hour period, most of these people do at most, about 1-2 hours of work. (Of course there are some exceptions, but it applies to the majority) The remaining 6-7 hours per day, they spend on personal affairs. The work they do adds no value to an end product. Typically, they have furniture provided by the company, a phone and quite often, a computer at their disposal. They can go to the bathroom, surf the Internet, call their wife, pay their bills, or do whatever they please on company time. Now, you would think at these locations, the union would be tight and cohesive, to protect this gig. However, the opposite is true. They have some much extra time; it leads to gamesmanship and political infighting ala. Doom/Browning, Brown/Huddleston. Perhaps they do not know how good they have it, or feel they are entitled to this situation. How do you think the assembly plant workers feel, knowing they are being paid less and doing all of the work? This is where the fraud is, being paid to add no value. Being paid, to launch negative attacks on co-workers in the same union, rather than working together to preserve the good deal they have.

 

Now the only leg that have to stand on, is the fact that management is doing the exact same no-thing. You can’t expect the workers to add value if management is sitting. This is the root cause of the current problematic situation at Ford Motor. A culture has been created by the other 50% of the workforce, that is counter productive. And this is at the locations where the vehicles are being developed and tested. It is not a mystery why the company is lagging in product development and innovation. The culture where this function takes place is unbalanced. It has gotten to the point where a certain group of people at this location, and they are actually the ones who do the least work, feel that they are so entitled to having it this way, they are going to create political dissent and seize power. You should be smiling and getting along with every other person there. Instead you use company resources on company time (and off company time) to launch negativity campaigns. This is not only fraud, it is the sick and wrong type of fraud.

 

Now imagine, perhaps someday, that Ford Motor Company is acquired by another automaker or does a joint venture with an equal size auto company. Now an outsider will be looking in. How long do you think it will be (real quick) before this counterproductive culture at these locations is noticed? Do you think it will be overlooked as it currently is? The answer is so obvious it requires no response. You are now looking at one of the causes of Ford Motor’s problems. Perhaps if more energy were spent on working together rather than fighting, and finding new and better ways to do business, it would get better. Instead you see the immature behavior fostered by this environment and it’s negative effect on product design. Which is precisely the area where the company is suffering the most. Fraud? This is beyond fraud; this is an outright infection and drain on the company. And the biggest perpetrators of this inefficiency do not believe it is they. In their mind, they are not the problem. They are real quick to point the finger at others, “It’s not me, it’s him, look at him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” In psychological terms this is known as projecting. When you cast your underlying guilt at others to deflect it from yourself. There is a whole lot of negativity and projecting going on, and not a whole lot of value adding. Actually, it is not that great of a secret. Fields even made a comment that he would “sell the furniture, if it were necessary.” That was a direct comment made to those who sit at company furniture all day, and add little value. But it’s not you, or is it? Fields and Ford know, to make themselves an attractive merger candidate, this culture has to be completely re-created. No other company, other than Ford Motor, allows this to go on. Now I know those who will attack this thought, saying it is snitching or whatever, but rather, a dose of medicine is quickly needed. Otherwise the company could die. Don’t you see it; the company and the union are both suffering, while the internal political power grabbers fail to cease. Do you want it to be like a game of musical chairs, a few people fighting over the last piece of furniture? Or do you want to change, and work collectively to preserve as many chairs as we can? It is a simple, dichotomous choice. To quote Mark Fields, “Change or die.” Your choice. And no distraction, deception or continued negativity will prevent the inevitable from happening.

[Ovaltine]

To all of you who put your faith into what the Wizard predicts, you must know who this person is. I will not reveal his name, but the one you have been basing your future on is a UAW JANITOR at a Dearborn location. Like a lot of other people at this same location, he uses company time and computers to not do the job Ford Motor Company pays him to do. The wizard has unsucessfully run for local union positions more than once, and now settles for dumpster diving to get useless information to post here and toy with peoples lives. It is a symptom of the location the wizard pretends to work at, just as many others on this message forum. WAY too much time on their hands. Using company computers on company time. Want more about these people and the location they work at? There's lots more!

 

NOW YOU KNOW, WANT MORE?

I don't know about all you guys on here, but I thought THIS guy was the "Wizard"!

 

 

 

 

:P

 

 

-Ovaltine

[Ovaltine]

....I have, however, worked with many a conservative Republican, including for nearly three miserable years working for some nice, conservative Republicans from the west side of Michigan.

 

......I worked with these conservative Republican types for two long decades. They consider all

autoworkers, salaried and hourly alike, to be corrupt. While we have lost many customers to the likes of

Toyota, Honda, et al, because of quality issues, styling, handling, etc, one of the top reason these people

have abandon the Detroit automakers is that, according to these pro-family values, religious conservatives,

conservative Republican types, is that all of us Detroiters are all corrupt.

 

.....When I quit the nice company from western Michigan, my replacements insulted my customers and lost

all the non-production business I developed calling on Ford and several nonautomotive companies.

How did our nice, conservative Republican types respond to this loss of business (of which they were

100% responsible for losing)? By bad mouthing because of my family ties to Ford, GM, and Chrysler, and

ripping me on my Dad's and uncle's membership in the UAW (and CAW), my brother's salaried position in

Ford, and on three of my cousin's membership in the teachers union. Then they badmouthed me to every

supplier they were a distributor for, and got me blacklisted in an industry where I was a nationally

recognized expert.

 

All because I'm the family member of autoworkers and union members. And the person who tipped

me off on this systematic badmouthing was the owner of one of the Detroit area's largest employment

agencies.

 

....Stop drinking the poisoned Kool-aid.

 

Based on the above expose' , I'd like to place a wager that the following is Len_A's favorite movie

of all time!

 

 

:lol:

 

 

P.S. Len..... if indeed you WERE badmouthed to degree described above AND black-listed, do you

really think that it was done solely based on your casual affiliation as a family member of autoworkers

and union members?

 

Time for the "straight faced test"..... BZZZZZT! Sorry, but you lose.

 

You obviously pissed more than a few people off at that place with your own actions and behaviors.

Don't try to pin your hardships on the Republican Party because they're evil and you're simply

related to UAW members and other union members. Sheesh!

 

Look at your logic above. How AND why would the "evil Republicans" blame you for losing their

business, since you were no longer working for their firm at the time of the business loss? Wouldn't

it be more logical for them to blame your replacement?

 

C'mon. Tell us now. What'd you actually do? Go back and try to undermine your old firm after you left?

You'd better believe that there's a "Paul Harvey - Rest of the Story ©" moment somewhere in your

tale if any of it's remotely true.

 

The bottom line: The main gist of your story may be true (about the old management trying to make

things tough for you after you left). The errors lie in the omission of what you did to piss these people

off. My guess is that you probably ran your mouth too much while you were there and then attempted

to perform your own rendition of "blacklisting" them by calling up their clients that you used to service

after you "quit". The term "quit" in this situation is most likely a euphonism for "was let go".

 

Sorry guys, but my 'BSometer' went off when I read this one. Resume your ranting.

 

 

-Ovaltine

[Len_A]

And that new plant DCX opened in Toledo this week--that was supposed to go to Windsor, Ont..

And the new GM tranny plant they are building in Toledo. When that is running GMs Windsor tranny plant is likely to close.

And I have worked at the OKC GM plant and doubt they had any intention of building the Camaro there instead of Oshawa. Like you say they, whipsawed them.

 

Len,

What do you want the government to do?

Ford has let several of their major product lines die and now has several plants running at partial production. Last CAW contract the CAW was demanding what they want or they strike.

If the Big 2.5 cannot afford 30 and out, 12 weeks vacation a year and the legacy cost they negotiated with the union, then you want the government to fix that?

Ford management screwed up - no doubt in my mind there. But while I can't speak for Canada, in the USA pension costs are going up even for healthy companies because of the amount of companies that have defaulted on their pension funds. In the USA, if you are a large employer and have a defined benefit pension plan, you are required by law to insure it through the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation - a US Government agency. The PBGC is running a deficit because of the HUGE amount of companies that have defaulted on their pension obligations. I, again, can't speak for Canada (and if you're Canadian, then maybe you should learn more on how things are operating on this side of the border before you criticize me), but here, the insurance premiums that GM, Ford, and Chrysler pay on their defined benefit pensions has had a huge increase, unrelated to the age of the Big 2.5's workforce or any other actuarial data. It's gone up dramatically for the few companies still having defined benefit pensions to make up for the deficit caused by the majority of the other firms. Here on this side of the border, more and more companies are doing what my wife's law firm did - either freezing their defined benefit pension or canceling it and converting the funds to a defined contribution system. That either reduces the size of the insurance premium they pay to the PBGC or eliminates it completely. You think the UAW is going to warm up to the idea of ditching the pensions? GM, Ford & Chrysler are being made, and I emphasize BEING MADE, to pay more and more for the mismanagement of other firms.

 

 

 

What do I want the Bush administration to do? Take the burden off their backs. Their pension funds are fiscally sound, so I expect, and rightfully, the government to stop sticking them with the tab for other companies screw ups. Hot selling products or not, Toyota canceled their defined benefit pension plan for existing employees and switched to a 401K. SO did Nissan. So even if Ford and GM make all the right moves for designing product, and they sell hot, the playing field IS NOT LEVEL.

 

 

 

GM is the largest purchaser of health insurance in the USA. Ford is one of the ten or fifteen largest. Because in the USA public hospitals must, BY LAW, treat even the indigent, hospitals and the rest of the health care system in the USA employ cost shifting, and over charge those who have good insurance. Like the employees of Ford, GM, and Chrysler. What do I expect the government to do? Stop sticking GM, Ford, and Chrysler for societies health care tab. Not to mention that our USA workers prescription coverage subsidizes the restricted pharmaceutical prices of Canada and Europe, whose governments limited what pharmaceutical companies may charge for prescription drugs. What do I expect the government to do? Level the God damn playing field here by making those practices a major trade issue. If a thirty day supply of Lipitor in Canada only costs the equivalent of $45 to $50 US, because Pfizer can NOT charge more in Canada, then Ford or GM should NOT be charged $75 to $110 on this side of the border for the same thirty day supply of 10 MG Lipitor. Period.

 

 

 

That's what I expect my government to start doing. Sticking up for our USA employers, not sticking it to them. Not bail them out, but in a global economy do something to level the playing field.

[Len_A]

Based on the above expose' , I'd like to place a wager that the following is Len_A's favorite movie

of all time!

 

 

:lol:

 

 

P.S. Len..... if indeed you WERE badmouthed to degree described above AND black-listed, do you

really think that it was done solely based on your casual affiliation as a family member of autoworkers

and union members?

 

Time for the "straight faced test"..... BZZZZZT! Sorry, but you lose.

 

You obviously pissed more than a few people off at that place with your own actions and behaviors.

Don't try to pin your hardships on the Republican Party because they're evil and you're simply

related to UAW members and other union members. Sheesh!

 

Look at your logic above. How AND why would the "evil Republicans" blame you for losing their

business, since you were no longer working for their firm at the time of the business loss? Wouldn't

it be more logical for them to blame your replacement?

 

C'mon. Tell us now. What'd you actually do? Go back and try to undermine your old firm after you left?

You'd better believe that there's a "Paul Harvey - Rest of the Story ©" moment somewhere in your

tale if any of it's remotely true.

 

The bottom line: The main gist of your story may be true (about the old management trying to make

things tough for you after you left). The errors lie in the omission of what you did to piss these people

off. My guess is that you probably ran your mouth too much while you were there and then attempted

to perform your own rendition of "blacklisting" them by calling up their clients that you used to service

after you "quit". The term "quit" in this situation is most likely a euphonism for "was let go".

 

Sorry guys, but my 'BSometer' went off when I read this one. Resume your ranting.

 

 

-Ovaltine

Then you lose. I deleted most of my response to you, asshole. Anytime you want to PM your phone number or your email address, I'll be happy to provide you with all the names and phone numbers of the parties involved. You're an idiot - Did my post say these were the only narrow minded, right wing anti-Detroit, antiunion assholes I had to put up with? I mentioned at least two other companies, and their arrow minded bullshit. Not to mention a lt of my coworkers. One person repsonding to my post asked if it was jealousy - absolutely. The pay and benefits at Ford, and GM & Chrysler as well, are far better than they can hope for, and instead of looking to improve their situation, they repond by lashing out at those who have something better.

 

For all your ranting, you don't jack-shit about the industrial distribution system that existed in Detroit, and all of Michigan, from the late 1980's until about 2001. Only thing that actually took most of the politics out of that particular industry was the distributors losing business from GM, Ford,and Chrysler due to their cutbacks. Any manufacturer in my old field will tell you that Michigan was particularly cut throat, and this particular former employer was a cheap skate who would bad mouth any employee who left over money. Not to mention that every recruiter I've talked to has expressed surprise at how bad their compensation program is. Plus three of my Ford references told a couple of these recruiters these clowns justification for low balling the pay of their sales res and for putting them in stripped down fleet cars - "If the customer sees us driving too nice a car, they'll think we're ripping them off." Comical in Detroit, in the 1980'2 and 1990's when distributor sales reps for companies like F.B. Wright, Kerr Pump and others routinely drove Lincolns and Cadillacs.

 

 

The clowns cut my pay AFTER I increased my business (second highest profits in the company), I left for a better position. They bad mouthed me saying that my auto industry/UAW background made me greedy and that my auto industry background, and not my sales and technical skills, were the reason I got any business with Ford and GM. Go back and read what posted before you diss me. When this company came to Detroit, the very first thing they said when they took over my old Detroit office was that they never wanted to come to Detroit because there are too many black, too many Democrats, and too many unions. I come from a union family, and my family (& my wife) leans toward the Democrats. Two strikes against me in their eyes, period.

 

 

BTW, they 've been sued three times for doing to other people what they did to me. I was unlucky only in that I found out about too close to the expiration of the statute of limitations to be able to sue them.

Edited September 4, 2006 by Len_A

[hi-lo feva2]

It is not I who is the fraud. Compare these two situations and then ask yourself, who is the fraud.

 

Consider the assembly line worker in the assembly plant. During the course of an eight-hour shift, he adds nearly the entire eight hours in value to the product being produced. In a one-minute period, the period by which he or she is measured, at least 55-58 seconds of work or product value is performed. The remaining 2-5 seconds are to enable to return to the beginning of the workstation for the next incoming job. Each minute a vehicle arrives and at least 55 seconds of work is performed by the assembler in that minute. The assembler is literally chained to the line. This assembler cannot use the computer, bathroom, call his wife, or perform any other personal needs, at will. This guy or gal is truly earning their $24 per hour. They are adding value to the product immediately that is actually in excess of what they are being paid. These people account for about 50% of the total hourly and salary workforce at Ford. I’m sure you would agree there is no fraud by these hard working people.

 

Now, consider this situation. You have well paid Ford employees (they know who they are) at locations (you know where they are) where there is no production. They get paid even more in their eight-hour shift than the assembly line worker. In an eight-hour period, most of these people do at most, about 1-2 hours of work. (Of course there are some exceptions, but it applies to the majority) The remaining 6-7 hours per day, they spend on personal affairs. The work they do adds no value to an end product. Typically, they have furniture provided by the company, a phone and quite often, a computer at their disposal. They can go to the bathroom, surf the Internet, call their wife, pay their bills, or do whatever they please on company time. Now, you would think at these locations, the union would be tight and cohesive, to protect this gig. However, the opposite is true. They have some much extra time; it leads to gamesmanship and political infighting ala. Doom/Browning, Brown/Huddleston. Perhaps they do not know how good they have it, or feel they are entitled to this situation. How do you think the assembly plant workers feel, knowing they are being paid less and doing all of the work? This is where the fraud is, being paid to add no value. Being paid, to launch negative attacks on co-workers in the same union, rather than working together to preserve the good deal they have.

 

Now the only leg that have to stand on, is the fact that management is doing the exact same no-thing. You can’t expect the workers to add value if management is sitting. This is the root cause of the current problematic situation at Ford Motor. A culture has been created by the other 50% of the workforce, that is counter productive. And this is at the locations where the vehicles are being developed and tested. It is not a mystery why the company is lagging in product development and innovation. The culture where this function takes place is unbalanced. It has gotten to the point where a certain group of people at this location, and they are actually the ones who do the least work, feel that they are so entitled to having it this way, they are going to create political dissent and seize power. You should be smiling and getting along with every other person there. Instead you use company resources on company time (and off company time) to launch negativity campaigns. This is not only fraud, it is the sick and wrong type of fraud.

 

Now imagine, perhaps someday, that Ford Motor Company is acquired by another automaker or does a joint venture with an equal size auto company. Now an outsider will be looking in. How long do you think it will be (real quick) before this counterproductive culture at these locations is noticed? Do you think it will be overlooked as it currently is? The answer is so obvious it requires no response. You are now looking at one of the causes of Ford Motor’s problems. Perhaps if more energy were spent on working together rather than fighting, and finding new and better ways to do business, it would get better. Instead you see the immature behavior fostered by this environment and it’s negative effect on product design. Which is precisely the area where the company is suffering the most. Fraud? This is beyond fraud; this is an outright infection and drain on the company. And the biggest perpetrators of this inefficiency do not believe it is they. In their mind, they are not the problem. They are real quick to point the finger at others, “It’s not me, it’s him, look at him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!†In psychological terms this is known as projecting. When you cast your underlying guilt at others to deflect it from yourself. There is a whole lot of negativity and projecting going on, and not a whole lot of value adding. Actually, it is not that great of a secret. Fields even made a comment that he would “sell the furniture, if it were necessary.†That was a direct comment made to those who sit at company furniture all day, and add little value. But it’s not you, or is it? Fields and Ford know, to make themselves an attractive merger candidate, this culture has to be completely re-created. No other company, other than Ford Motor, allows this to go on. Now I know those who will attack this thought, saying it is snitching or whatever, but rather, a dose of medicine is quickly needed. Otherwise the company could die. Don’t you see it; the company and the union are both suffering, while the internal political power grabbers fail to cease. Do you want it to be like a game of musical chairs, a few people fighting over the last piece of furniture? Or do you want to change, and work collectively to preserve as many chairs as we can? It is a simple, dichotomous choice. To quote Mark Fields, “Change or die.†Your choice. And no distraction, deception or continued negativity will prevent the inevitable from happening.

someone in the 'higher ups" should check this out. it was well put. bravo

[Len_A]

Look at your logic above. How AND why would the "evil Republicans" blame you for losing their

business, since you were no longer working for their firm at the time of the business loss? Wouldn't

it be more logical for them to blame your replacement?

 

C'mon. Tell us now. What'd you actually do? Go back and try to undermine your old firm after you left?

You'd better believe that there's a "Paul Harvey - Rest of the Story ©" moment somewhere in your

tale if any of it's remotely true.

They didn't want to blame my replacement because they hired her to replace me, and she had no product experience and zero technical skills. Their two biggest suppliers expressed their reservations about an inexperienced person replace someone whom maintenance and plant engineering customers at Ford and Detroit Edison spoke highly of (including letters of reference I used to get business at other Ford plants, and in Detroit Edison's case, I used to get business in Ohio at Centerior Energy).

 

 

 

My old employer loved this lady, because she was willing to work for less than two-thirds of my old salary, and she didn't bitch about driving a stripped down Chevy Lumina for company car. I did object. My two biggest competitors at the Ford Research & Engineering Center and the Rouge Complex had their sales people driving Lincolns. I didn't like the cheap image.

 

 

 

Not only did I not undermine them, but I was under orders at Grainger to warn them when Ford approached Grainger about taking that business away from them. Grainger wasn't interested, and I was order "to extend a professional courtesy and warn them that the customer (Ford Research) has expressed reservations about their level of customer service".

 

 

 

I don't know about you, but when my boss tells me to do something, I do it. So I told them. Like I posted earlier, I had no clue about their badmouthing for years. If I had, my manager at Grainger would have been informed, and there would have been no professional courtesy extended, period.

[xstapr]

It is not I who is the fraud. Compare these two situations and then ask yourself, who is the fraud.

 

Consider the assembly line worker in the assembly plant. During the course of an eight-hour shift, he adds nearly the entire eight hours in value to the product being produced. In a one-minute period, the period by which he or she is measured, at least 55-58 seconds of work or product value is performed. The remaining 2-5 seconds are to enable to return to the beginning of the workstation for the next incoming job. Each minute a vehicle arrives and at least 55 seconds of work is performed by the assembler in that minute. The assembler is literally chained to the line. This assembler cannot use the computer, bathroom, call his wife, or perform any other personal needs, at will. This guy or gal is truly earning their $24 per hour. They are adding value to the product immediately that is actually in excess of what they are being paid. These people account for about 50% of the total hourly and salary workforce at Ford. I’m sure you would agree there is no fraud by these hard working people.

 

Now, consider this situation. You have well paid Ford employees (they know who they are) at locations (you know where they are) where there is no production. They get paid even more in their eight-hour shift than the assembly line worker. In an eight-hour period, most of these people do at most, about 1-2 hours of work. (Of course there are some exceptions, but it applies to the majority) The remaining 6-7 hours per day, they spend on personal affairs. The work they do adds no value to an end product. Typically, they have furniture provided by the company, a phone and quite often, a computer at their disposal. They can go to the bathroom, surf the Internet, call their wife, pay their bills, or do whatever they please on company time. Now, you would think at these locations, the union would be tight and cohesive, to protect this gig. However, the opposite is true. They have some much extra time; it leads to gamesmanship and political infighting ala. Doom/Browning, Brown/Huddleston. Perhaps they do not know how good they have it, or feel they are entitled to this situation. How do you think the assembly plant workers feel, knowing they are being paid less and doing all of the work? This is where the fraud is, being paid to add no value. Being paid, to launch negative attacks on co-workers in the same union, rather than working together to preserve the good deal they have.

 

Now the only leg that have to stand on, is the fact that management is doing the exact same no-thing. You can’t expect the workers to add value if management is sitting. This is the root cause of the current problematic situation at Ford Motor. A culture has been created by the other 50% of the workforce, that is counter productive. And this is at the locations where the vehicles are being developed and tested. It is not a mystery why the company is lagging in product development and innovation. The culture where this function takes place is unbalanced. It has gotten to the point where a certain group of people at this location, and they are actually the ones who do the least work, feel that they are so entitled to having it this way, they are going to create political dissent and seize power. You should be smiling and getting along with every other person there. Instead you use company resources on company time (and off company time) to launch negativity campaigns. This is not only fraud, it is the sick and wrong type of fraud.

 

Now imagine, perhaps someday, that Ford Motor Company is acquired by another automaker or does a joint venture with an equal size auto company. Now an outsider will be looking in. How long do you think it will be (real quick) before this counterproductive culture at these locations is noticed? Do you think it will be overlooked as it currently is? The answer is so obvious it requires no response. You are now looking at one of the causes of Ford Motor’s problems. Perhaps if more energy were spent on working together rather than fighting, and finding new and better ways to do business, it would get better. Instead you see the immature behavior fostered by this environment and it’s negative effect on product design. Which is precisely the area where the company is suffering the most. Fraud? This is beyond fraud; this is an outright infection and drain on the company. And the biggest perpetrators of this inefficiency do not believe it is they. In their mind, they are not the problem. They are real quick to point the finger at others, “It’s not me, it’s him, look at him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!†In psychological terms this is known as projecting. When you cast your underlying guilt at others to deflect it from yourself. There is a whole lot of negativity and projecting going on, and not a whole lot of value adding. Actually, it is not that great of a secret. Fields even made a comment that he would “sell the furniture, if it were necessary.†That was a direct comment made to those who sit at company furniture all day, and add little value. But it’s not you, or is it? Fields and Ford know, to make themselves an attractive merger candidate, this culture has to be completely re-created. No other company, other than Ford Motor, allows this to go on. Now I know those who will attack this thought, saying it is snitching or whatever, but rather, a dose of medicine is quickly needed. Otherwise the company could die. Don’t you see it; the company and the union are both suffering, while the internal political power grabbers fail to cease. Do you want it to be like a game of musical chairs, a few people fighting over the last piece of furniture? Or do you want to change, and work collectively to preserve as many chairs as we can? It is a simple, dichotomous choice. To quote Mark Fields, “Change or die.†Your choice. And no distraction, deception or continued negativity will prevent the inevitable from happening.

What is all this "added value" crap? It's easy to point fingers at the other guy. I'm sure you bust your

ass, day in and day out, so you're in a position to judge all the lazy, counter productive people.

I will assume that when you have enough seniority to bid off the line, you will not because you

are not "adding value" anymore.

Your post is a joke!

[dark270]

Jesus, here we go again. GM is not building a new tranny plant in Toledo. They are renovating part of an EXISTING plant. It is the Powertrain plant on Alexis road, you moron.

 

 

We do not get 12 weeks off a year. Where do you come up with this stuff? What kind of drugs are you on?

 

 

it's no use...this guy(BLUECONBITCH)..or KID is a PUNK with no intelligence!

[moe money please]

Brothers and sisters

I just left a plant and local union that has closed and you all have to stop and take a long look at what really is going on and quit getting caught up in the rumor b… sh..t that goes on daily in our locations. I my self am very proud of our local union leadership for what they have done for every member at our assembly plant. They kept everyone informed with what they new ( and trust me you just think they know everything but they don’t) and advised everyone exactly what was going to happen and when it would happen including advance notice on our closing before the press got it.

 

The company will always continue to keep the union ranks at odds and make you believe that the union is not telling you the truth. And you ask why would they do that very simple the more time we are fighting or arguing about what somebody’s is saying the less time we have to worry about how the company is cutting and adding work to our jobs they keep us off guard so they can keep full control.

 

Everyone need to just take a hard look at the way the company manipulates our membership to see the truth remember you work for ford motor company not the UAW. ford motor company cuts your check and they make the rules if we as a union do not stick together and quit listening to all the rumors we all will indeed be gone union or not. If all of you that want to continue to bash your union run for the office I have and trust me dealing with assholes all day that want to do nothing but bitch about rumors that they heard from a friend of a friend is bs and there is no way anyone could answer that without a crystal ball.

 

This month everyone will now what’s going on and then everyone can make a choice and I as a good union person hope that everyone here that bashes the union please do us all a favor and tell them to cut that check we don’t want you or need you in this union anyway!!!!!!!!!

 

PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF 325/249

thank you brother

[Bluecon]

And, before you even open your mouth, here is my rebuttal:

 

LINK-Toledo Blade

I new it was an expansion. Just wanted to let you finally get one right.

 

But it doesn't change the fact that this new facility will most likely mean the end of the Windsor GM tranny plant.

Edited September 4, 2006 by Bluecon

[Bluecon]

Ford management screwed up - no doubt in my mind there. But while I can't speak for Canada, in the USA pension costs are going up even for healthy companies because of the amount of companies that have defaulted on their pension funds. In the USA, if you are a large employer and have a defined benefit pension plan, you are required by law to insure it through the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation - a US Government agency. The PBGC is running a deficit because of the HUGE amount of companies that have defaulted on their pension obligations. I, again, can't speak for Canada (and if you're Canadian, then maybe you should learn more on how things are operating on this side of the border before you criticize me), but here, the insurance premiums that GM, Ford, and Chrysler pay on their defined benefit pensions has had a huge increase, unrelated to the age of the Big 2.5's workforce or any other actuarial data. It's gone up dramatically for the few companies still having defined benefit pensions to make up for the deficit caused by the majority of the other firms. Here on this side of the border, more and more companies are doing what my wife's law firm did - either freezing their defined benefit pension or canceling it and converting the funds to a defined contribution system. That either reduces the size of the insurance premium they pay to the PBGC or eliminates it completely. You think the UAW is going to warm up to the idea of ditching the pensions? GM, Ford & Chrysler are being made, and I emphasize BEING MADE, to pay more and more for the mismanagement of other firms.

 

 

 

What do I want the Bush administration to do? Take the burden off their backs. Their pension funds are fiscally sound, so I expect, and rightfully, the government to stop sticking them with the tab for other companies screw ups. Hot selling products or not, Toyota canceled their defined benefit pension plan for existing employees and switched to a 401K. SO did Nissan. So even if Ford and GM make all the right moves for designing product, and they sell hot, the playing field IS NOT LEVEL.

 

 

 

GM is the largest purchaser of health insurance in the USA. Ford is one of the ten or fifteen largest. Because in the USA public hospitals must, BY LAW, treat even the indigent, hospitals and the rest of the health care system in the USA employ cost shifting, and over charge those who have good insurance. Like the employees of Ford, GM, and Chrysler. What do I expect the government to do? Stop sticking GM, Ford, and Chrysler for societies health care tab. Not to mention that our USA workers prescription coverage subsidizes the restricted pharmaceutical prices of Canada and Europe, whose governments limited what pharmaceutical companies may charge for prescription drugs. What do I expect the government to do? Level the God damn playing field here by making those practices a major trade issue. If a thirty day supply of Lipitor in Canada only costs the equivalent of $45 to $50 US, because Pfizer can NOT charge more in Canada, then Ford or GM should NOT be charged $75 to $110 on this side of the border for the same thirty day supply of 10 MG Lipitor. Period.

 

 

 

That's what I expect my government to start doing. Sticking up for our USA employers, not sticking it to them. Not bail them out, but in a global economy do something to level the playing field.

They cannot afford the contract. Personnaly I would rather have a 401K for my retirement savings than a company pension plan. This is only the tip of the iceberg. When the babyboomers start retiring in mass I don't see how the government will pay for all the pensions and medical. Right now I think there are 4 people working for each person collecting benefits. Every time the big 2.5 reduce the workforce with buyouts they increase the problem of legacy costs. 30 and out is not realistic. You work 30 years and then collect benefits for 30 years?

 

Jesus, here we go again. GM is not building a new tranny plant in Toledo. They are renovating part of an EXISTING plant. It is the Powertrain plant on Alexis road, you moron.

 

 

We do not get 12 weeks off a year. Where do you come up with this stuff? What kind of drugs are you on?

CAW high seniority workers are about 12 weeks a year.

[Len_A]

They cannot afford the contract. Personnaly I would rather have a 401K for my retirement savings than a company pension plan. This is only the tip of the iceberg. When the babyboomers start retiring in mass I don't see how the government will pay for all the pensions and medical. Right now I think there are 4 people working for each person collecting benefits. Every time the big 2.5 reduce the workforce with buyouts they increase the problem of legacy costs. 30 and out is not realistic. You work 30 years and then collect benefits for 30 years?

 

 

CAW high seniority workers are about 12 weeks a year.

I agree with much of what you said, in principle. the Big 2.5 already discontinued defined benefit pensions for all new salaried hires, but I can't see the UAW agreeing to that, and even if they did, it doesn't address the problems with all the current retirees. I'm not expecting the government to pay for all the pensions, but at the same time penalizing the few remaining companies, with defined benefit pensions, for the fiscal default of the other companies with those pensions isn't the answer either. I can't speak for Canada, but here in the USA it isn't easy to just convert a defined benefit plan to a 401K either. Even if organized labor agrees to it, there are legal hoops to jump through that are prohibitive, and those already collecting their pension can't be touched. You can't just default on a pension, either, without being in bankruptcy, and the Big 2.5 can't afford the lose of retail car sales that a bankruptcy filing would bring. This isn't the airline industry where you talking about a $600 or $700 plane ticket. This is a very big ticket consumer product in the $20000 plus price range with a warranty. Every marketing survey done in the USA and Canada has shown that majority of consumers would abandon a Detroit car maker who filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection. So there goes dumping the pension on the PBGC.

 

 

 

So what's the answer? I don't know. Here's what the answer isn't: It is not the Bush administration standing up GM, Ford, and Chrysler, not once but twice, and still no reschedule of the appointment. Ever since Andy Card resigned from the White House, the Big 2.5 have no voice in the White House speaking up for them. Whatever the solution is, government has to start at least talking. Bush, for whatever reason, had not yet. Considering that the three companies still build half the cars and trucks sold in this country, that is not acceptable behavior in my book.

[Bluecon]

I agree with much of what you said, in principle. the Big 2.5 already discontinued defined benefit pensions for all new salaried hires, but I can't see the UAW agreeing to that, and even if they did, it doesn't address the problems with all the current retirees. I'm not expecting the government to pay for all the pensions, but at the same time penalizing the few remaining companies, with defined benefit pensions, for the fiscal default of the other companies with those pensions isn't the answer either. I can't speak for Canada, but here in the USA it isn't easy to just convert a defined benefit plan to a 401K either. Even if organized labor agrees to it, there are legal hoops to jump through that are prohibitive, and those already collecting their pension can't be touched. You can't just default on a pension, either, without being in bankruptcy, and the Big 2.5 can't afford the lose of retail car sales that a bankruptcy filing would bring. This isn't the airline industry where you talking about a $600 or $700 plane ticket. This is a very big ticket consumer product in the $20000 plus price range with a warranty. Every marketing survey done in the USA and Canada has shown that majority of consumers would abandon a Detroit car maker who filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection. So there goes dumping the pension on the PBGC.

 

 

 

So what's the answer? I don't know. Here's what the answer isn't: It is not the Bush administration standing up GM, Ford, and Chrysler, not once but twice, and still no reschedule of the appointment. Ever since Andy Card resigned from the White House, the Big 2.5 have no voice in the White House speaking up for them. Whatever the solution is, government has to start at least talking. Bush, for whatever reason, had not yet. Considering that the three companies still build half the cars and trucks sold in this country, that is not acceptable behavior in my book.

We have RRSPs in Canada(registered retirement savings plan). I like them better than the 401k because you own them and can contribute a lump sum up to the limit. The only problem is if you work for a company with a pension plan you are quite restricted in what you can invest. The Canadian pension plan does not pay nearly as well as Social Security.

 

Nowadays that is the way things are done. There is no real reason for meeting with George Bush. It is only a photo-op. The government is going to face the same problem as the Big 2.5 when they need to start paying off the Baby Boomers. I think the peak year for the baby boom is 1958 in the USA. That will flood the system.

[saywhat]

To all of you who put your faith into what the Wizard predicts, you must know who this person is. I will not reveal his name, but the one you have been basing your future on is a UAW JANITOR at a Dearborn location. Like a lot of other people at this same location, he uses company time and computers to not do the job Ford Motor Company pays him to do. The wizard has unsucessfully run for local union positions more than once, and now settles for dumpster diving to get useless information to post here and toy with peoples lives. It is a symptom of the location the wizard pretends to work at, just as many others on this message forum. WAY too much time on their hands. Using company computers on company time. Want more about these people and the location they work at? There's lots more!

 

NOW YOU KNOW, WANT MORE?

Uawworker (if you really are a UAW worker) you should delete this post. You clam to be in a union but you level some serious allegations against what could be another member. On an open forum for the world to see no less. How are your actions possibly going to benefit anyone on this forum? Or is this post only for your own self serving purpose?

 

Please do us a favor and don’t screw all of us on your way to the top of the management ladder.

 

Your future in Ford Management must be bright because you sure in the hell don’t sound interested in anyone else’s future at Ford.

[chkchka]

To all of you who put your faith into what the Wizard predicts, you must know who this person is. I will not reveal his name, but the one you have been basing your future on is a UAW JANITOR at a Dearborn location. Like a lot of other people at this same location, he uses company time and computers to not do the job Ford Motor Company pays him to do. The wizard has unsucessfully run for local union positions more than once, and now settles for dumpster diving to get useless information to post here and toy with peoples lives. It is a symptom of the location the wizard pretends to work at, just as many others on this message forum. WAY too much time on their hands. Using company computers on company time. Want more about these people and the location they work at? There's lots more!

 

NOW YOU KNOW, WANT MORE?

 

 

So basically you are saying he's pretending to be like every jagoff white collar worker in the country by using a computer for other things than work? Somebody get a rope!

[Hebitchmanslapper]

It is not I who is the fraud. Compare these two situations and then ask yourself, who is the fraud.

 

Consider the assembly line worker in the assembly plant. During the course of an eight-hour shift, he adds nearly the entire eight hours in value to the product being produced. In a one-minute period, the period by which he or she is measured, at least 55-58 seconds of work or product value is performed. The remaining 2-5 seconds are to enable to return to the beginning of the workstation for the next incoming job. Each minute a vehicle arrives and at least 55 seconds of work is performed by the assembler in that minute. The assembler is literally chained to the line. This assembler cannot use the computer, bathroom, call his wife, or perform any other personal needs, at will. This guy or gal is truly earning their $24 per hour. They are adding value to the product immediately that is actually in excess of what they are being paid. These people account for about 50% of the total hourly and salary workforce at Ford. I’m sure you would agree there is no fraud by these hard working people.

 

Now, consider this situation. You have well paid Ford employees (they know who they are) at locations (you know where they are) where there is no production. They get paid even more in their eight-hour shift than the assembly line worker. In an eight-hour period, most of these people do at most, about 1-2 hours of work. (Of course there are some exceptions, but it applies to the majority) The remaining 6-7 hours per day, they spend on personal affairs. The work they do adds no value to an end product. Typically, they have furniture provided by the company, a phone and quite often, a computer at their disposal. They can go to the bathroom, surf the Internet, call their wife, pay their bills, or do whatever they please on company time. Now, you would think at these locations, the union would be tight and cohesive, to protect this gig. However, the opposite is true. They have some much extra time; it leads to gamesmanship and political infighting ala. Doom/Browning, Brown/Huddleston. Perhaps they do not know how good they have it, or feel they are entitled to this situation. How do you think the assembly plant workers feel, knowing they are being paid less and doing all of the work? This is where the fraud is, being paid to add no value. Being paid, to launch negative attacks on co-workers in the same union, rather than working together to preserve the good deal they have.

 

Now the only leg that have to stand on, is the fact that management is doing the exact same no-thing. You can’t expect the workers to add value if management is sitting. This is the root cause of the current problematic situation at Ford Motor. A culture has been created by the other 50% of the workforce, that is counter productive. And this is at the locations where the vehicles are being developed and tested. It is not a mystery why the company is lagging in product development and innovation. The culture where this function takes place is unbalanced. It has gotten to the point where a certain group of people at this location, and they are actually the ones who do the least work, feel that they are so entitled to having it this way, they are going to create political dissent and seize power. You should be smiling and getting along with every other person there. Instead you use company resources on company time (and off company time) to launch negativity campaigns. This is not only fraud, it is the sick and wrong type of fraud.

 

Now imagine, perhaps someday, that Ford Motor Company is acquired by another automaker or does a joint venture with an equal size auto company. Now an outsider will be looking in. How long do you think it will be (real quick) before this counterproductive culture at these locations is noticed? Do you think it will be overlooked as it currently is? The answer is so obvious it requires no response. You are now looking at one of the causes of Ford Motor’s problems. Perhaps if more energy were spent on working together rather than fighting, and finding new and better ways to do business, it would get better. Instead you see the immature behavior fostered by this environment and it’s negative effect on product design. Which is precisely the area where the company is suffering the most. Fraud? This is beyond fraud; this is an outright infection and drain on the company. And the biggest perpetrators of this inefficiency do not believe it is they. In their mind, they are not the problem. They are real quick to point the finger at others, “It’s not me, it’s him, look at him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!†In psychological terms this is known as projecting. When you cast your underlying guilt at others to deflect it from yourself. There is a whole lot of negativity and projecting going on, and not a whole lot of value adding. Actually, it is not that great of a secret. Fields even made a comment that he would “sell the furniture, if it were necessary.†That was a direct comment made to those who sit at company furniture all day, and add little value. But it’s not you, or is it? Fields and Ford know, to make themselves an attractive merger candidate, this culture has to be completely re-created. No other company, other than Ford Motor, allows this to go on. Now I know those who will attack this thought, saying it is snitching or whatever, but rather, a dose of medicine is quickly needed. Otherwise the company could die. Don’t you see it; the company and the union are both suffering, while the internal political power grabbers fail to cease. Do you want it to be like a game of musical chairs, a few people fighting over the last piece of furniture? Or do you want to change, and work collectively to preserve as many chairs as we can? It is a simple, dichotomous choice. To quote Mark Fields, “Change or die.†Your choice. And no distraction, deception or continued negativity will prevent the inevitable from happening.

Gosh ..... The truth hurts .......very well put..... I think I'll get up and go find something to do. To bad it's to late for my location... Oh Mr. Fields have a nice Day!!!!

[paris]

It is not I who is the fraud. Compare these two situations and then ask yourself, who is the fraud.

 

Consider the assembly line worker in the assembly plant. During the course of an eight-hour shift, he adds nearly the entire eight hours in value to the product being produced. In a one-minute period, the period by which he or she is measured, at least 55-58 seconds of work or product value is performed. The remaining 2-5 seconds are to enable to return to the beginning of the workstation for the next incoming job. Each minute a vehicle arrives and at least 55 seconds of work is performed by the assembler in that minute. The assembler is literally chained to the line. This assembler cannot use the computer, bathroom, call his wife, or perform any other personal needs, at will. This guy or gal is truly earning their $24 per hour. They are adding value to the product immediately that is actually in excess of what they are being paid. These people account for about 50% of the total hourly and salary workforce at Ford. I’m sure you would agree there is no fraud by these hard working people.

 

Now, consider this situation. You have well paid Ford employees (they know who they are) at locations (you know where they are) where there is no production. They get paid even more in their eight-hour shift than the assembly line worker. In an eight-hour period, most of these people do at most, about 1-2 hours of work. (Of course there are some exceptions, but it applies to the majority) The remaining 6-7 hours per day, they spend on personal affairs. The work they do adds no value to an end product. Typically, they have furniture provided by the company, a phone and quite often, a computer at their disposal. They can go to the bathroom, surf the Internet, call their wife, pay their bills, or do whatever they please on company time. Now, you would think at these locations, the union would be tight and cohesive, to protect this gig. However, the opposite is true. They have some much extra time; it leads to gamesmanship and political infighting ala. Doom/Browning, Brown/Huddleston. Perhaps they do not know how good they have it, or feel they are entitled to this situation. How do you think the assembly plant workers feel, knowing they are being paid less and doing all of the work? This is where the fraud is, being paid to add no value. Being paid, to launch negative attacks on co-workers in the same union, rather than working together to preserve the good deal they have.

 

Now the only leg that have to stand on, is the fact that management is doing the exact same no-thing. You can’t expect the workers to add value if management is sitting. This is the root cause of the current problematic situation at Ford Motor. A culture has been created by the other 50% of the workforce, that is counter productive. And this is at the locations where the vehicles are being developed and tested. It is not a mystery why the company is lagging in product development and innovation. The culture where this function takes place is unbalanced. It has gotten to the point where a certain group of people at this location, and they are actually the ones who do the least work, feel that they are so entitled to having it this way, they are going to create political dissent and seize power. You should be smiling and getting along with every other person there. Instead you use company resources on company time (and off company time) to launch negativity campaigns. This is not only fraud, it is the sick and wrong type of fraud.

 

Now imagine, perhaps someday, that Ford Motor Company is acquired by another automaker or does a joint venture with an equal size auto company. Now an outsider will be looking in. How long do you think it will be (real quick) before this counterproductive culture at these locations is noticed? Do you think it will be overlooked as it currently is? The answer is so obvious it requires no response. You are now looking at one of the causes of Ford Motor’s problems. Perhaps if more energy were spent on working together rather than fighting, and finding new and better ways to do business, it would get better. Instead you see the immature behavior fostered by this environment and it’s negative effect on product design. Which is precisely the area where the company is suffering the most. Fraud? This is beyond fraud; this is an outright infection and drain on the company. And the biggest perpetrators of this inefficiency do not believe it is they. In their mind, they are not the problem. They are real quick to point the finger at others, “It’s not me, it’s him, look at him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!†In psychological terms this is known as projecting. When you cast your underlying guilt at others to deflect it from yourself. There is a whole lot of negativity and projecting going on, and not a whole lot of value adding. Actually, it is not that great of a secret. Fields even made a comment that he would “sell the furniture, if it were necessary.†That was a direct comment made to those who sit at company furniture all day, and add little value. But it’s not you, or is it? Fields and Ford know, to make themselves an attractive merger candidate, this culture has to be completely re-created. No other company, other than Ford Motor, allows this to go on. Now I know those who will attack this thought, saying it is snitching or whatever, but rather, a dose of medicine is quickly needed. Otherwise the company could die. Don’t you see it; the company and the union are both suffering, while the internal political power grabbers fail to cease. Do you want it to be like a game of musical chairs, a few people fighting over the last piece of furniture? Or do you want to change, and work collectively to preserve as many chairs as we can? It is a simple, dichotomous choice. To quote Mark Fields, “Change or die.†Your choice. And no distraction, deception or continued negativity will prevent the inevitable from happening.

 

 

UAWWORKER,

I have spoken many times of the quality of the people who make up this great company. I can tell by your writings that you are one of those people. Thank you for being part of our orgainization at at time when we really need the leadership that you display.

As you have likelly noted, it irritates me to watch an individual who will make posts on this, and other public forums, in an attempt to direct peoples lives. I have also noted that you have not attempted to reveal any information that could be construed to be the fortelling of events yet to accur. Thank you for that as well.

What I have always attempted, by making posts on this forum, has been to speak of the positive things that make up our organization. We can and will, make this company the world leader that I know it to be. Continue to direct your peers in a positive way. Remember quality. It is the key to the future.

[xstapr]

UAWWORKER,

I have spoken many times of the quality of the people who make up this great company. I can tell by your writings that you are one of those people. Thank you for being part of our orgainization at at time when we really need the leadership that you display.

As you have likelly noted, it irritates me to watch an individual who will make posts on this, and other public forums, in an attempt to direct peoples lives. I have also noted that you have not attempted to reveal any information that could be construed to be the fortelling of events yet to accur. Thank you for that as well.

What I have always attempted, by making posts on this forum, has been to speak of the positive things that make up our organization. We can and will, make this company the world leader that I know it to be. Continue to direct your peers in a positive way. Remember quality. It is the key to the future.

Quality is the key to the future? Tell that to the people at plants that are closing. Are you saying they

are closing because they produce shit?

[Emigh]

Quality is the key to the future? Tell that to the people at plants that are closing. Are you saying they

are closing because they produce shit?

You know, just ignore this guy. He spouts management speeches. Look at his previous posts. He is definitely a young supervisor who believes all the the crap and thinks he is swaying the uninformed hourly workers on this post. In fact, he sounds just like my foreman at Michigan Truck.

[Hebitchmanslapper]

UAWWORKER,

I have spoken many times of the quality of the people who make up this great company. I can tell by your writings that you are one of those people. Thank you for being part of our orgainization at at time when we really need the leadership that you display.

As you have likelly noted, it irritates me to watch an individual who will make posts on this, and other public forums, in an attempt to direct peoples lives. I have also noted that you have not attempted to reveal any information that could be construed to be the fortelling of events yet to accur. Thank you for that as well.

What I have always attempted, by making posts on this forum, has been to speak of the positive things that make up our organization. We can and will, make this company the world leader that I know it to be. Continue to direct your peers in a positive way. Remember quality. It is the key to the future.

I think uawworker and paris are Mark Fields do I have any takers?!?

[Emigh]

I think uawworker and paris are Mark Fields do I have any takers?!?

Or at least some of their groupies!

[The Sentinel]

I'm not to partial to kool-aid, but will mix a drink of my own. Neither party cares about the UAW and it's workers. I do not agree with everything the republican party says or does. I am a conservative and unfortunately the republican party is my only option at this time. So, I vote for the republican party until there is a viable alternative. Is the republican party all sugar and spice and everything nice, not a chance, the democratic party is not either.

 

You have judged the entire republican party from an incident that has left a bad taste in your mouth, so be it, your choice. If you feel the democrats have the UAW's interest at heart, I beg to differ. As I stated in an earlier post they could care less. They want the UAW's campaign money and the memberships votes. I ask you what has the democratic party done for the UAW in the past twenty years, nothing. This is not 1940, 50, 60, 70 or the 1980's. Things have changed and the union has not changed with the times. You blindly vote for the democrats because the UAW says so. Who's drinking the kool-aid?

 

 

Good Grief, all the Dem vs Rep banter is making me sick.

 

Pres. Carter (D) served in the Oval office from 1977 to 1981. In 1979, China was granted MFN (Most Favored Nation) status. Now, that was during the term of a Dem. president. That status has to be renewed every year by the President. Not one time since then, by either a Republican or a Democrat has that been revoked. Actually, the day of the Tinnimen Square massacre, Pres. Bush Sr. ® announced the 1 year extension.

 

"We will link China's trading privileges to its human rights record..." --Candidate Bill Clinton, Los Angeles World Affairs Council, 8-13-92.

 

"I am moving, therefore, to de-link human rights from the annual extension of Most Favored Nation trading status for China." --President Bill Clinton, announcing MFN status for China, White House, 5-26-94.

 

MFN status had been changed to NTR (Normal Trade Relations) in 1998 because of the terminology.

 

NAFTA was introduced and pursued by Pres. Bush Sr. ®, but signed by Pres. Clinton (D) in 1993.

 

So please, spare me the "Dems. are for the working man the Reps. aren't, Dems. are against human rights abuses, but against family values, but the Reps. are all for family values" The fact of the matter is that neither one of them are as evidenced by the policies they make.

 

What is crystal clear however is what the evidence DOES point at. That both parties DO support $$$ and power, however they can get it. It does not matter who they have to promise, or who they have to lie to, to get it.

[Grey Goose]

You are right! The UAW is going to be smaller.

 

As a Union Leader I want all UAW brothers and sisters that are affected to be able to get a package and for any seperation/buyout to be as painless as possible.

 

Our members deserve to be treated with honesty and respect, told the honest true facts. What can we gain from lying? When members are elected they take an oath, too bad some don't live up to it.

 

I was in the meeting in Detroit Tuesday and For the record we were not "sworn to be secrecy" It was just a meeting for all Union Leaders to throw out ideas about what each location was interested in for any POSSIBLE buyouts. Nothing was announced at all. Nobody from FORD was there, it was Union only!

 

and as for the Meeting in 2 weeks....That was already scheduled. It is a regular UAW Sub-Council meeting.

 

These are facts. Period

 

Dude I want to thank you for saying what needs to be said. For untold months now I've sat back quietly and listened to far to many people bash this union. Yeah it isn't perfect. Yeah it's full of assholes from top to bottom. Yeah it's grown fat and lazy over the decades. But anybody with a brain the size of a pea would KILL to be a member of the UAW. You think I'm kidding? I'm not. Don't talk to me about the Toyota and Honda workers not accepting the UAW into their plants. The truth is they make what they make , BECAUSE the UAW has bargained over the years to make sure YOU make what you make. They are in my opinion nothing more than SCABS feeloading off our union dues. If and when this union is ever broken, watch how fast their "partners" in Toyota management cut their pay to 10 bucks an hour !

The ONLY reason anyone on this board can even THINK about a buyout or "Cutting that check" which seems to be a favorite by line amongst some of the people here is BECAUSE of the UAW. Does any nitwit think Steve Miller at Delphi got up in the morning one day and simply decided because he was a nice guy to buy his employees out? He did it because Rick Wagoner at GM called him and said "HEY ASSHOLE, I can't afford to have the UAW shut you down now get your head out of your ass and deal with them!"

Without this union, which seems to be falling apart from within and believe me the company knows this, none of us have ANYTHING. Fields gives us whatever size boot up the ass he wants. No buyouts, no SUB pay, no GEN pool, no GIS protection, no transfer rights NOTHING.

You people need to start reading more than the sports pages and the comic strips. If you did you would know that there is a CONCERTED REPUBLICAN ORAGANIZED AND WELL FINANCED movement underway to bust ALL unions. That was what was behind the disgusting and misguided post on here recently where the salaries of the international union were posted. Is anyone on here telling me that officers of the union should work for free? Do any of us?

The same group responsible for that posting also buys full page ads in USA Today ( a non union scab paper by the way ) with dark and forboding outright lies and innuendo about unions under the heading "What the unions don't want you to know" and then fills those ads with half truths slanted "Fox News" commentary and opinion along with assorterd twisted facts all designed to do nothing more than alienate the rank and file union membership at a time when we are all A} Under an all out assault on our very existence and B} when the rank and file are anxious about their futures and their very ability to survive.

The union isn't telling you anything because THEY DON"T KNOW YET EITHER ! The company wants it that way to increase the stress and anxiety and to foster dissent in the rank and file knowing you'll accept anything if they make you sweat enough ! Divide and conquer remember? Negotiation 101 .

You have a paid vacation? Thank the union. Health care? Thank the union. Make a good wage? Thank the union. Not have to give a shit whether your supervisor got laid last night and is in a good mood? Thank the union. Wondering if your plant will stay open or what you'll do with your buyout? Thank the union. No they can't make it perfect and all warm and fuzzy for every hillbilly like me who works the assembly line. Some of us will get screwed. But the fact is, now more than ever we ALL need this union.

The fact of the matter is " The Ford giveth and the Ford taketh away". The union makes sure its all distributed as fairly as possible.

For a lot of the young people on here who diss this union, who have what 3 years or 4 years seniority, and all you do is bitch about this or that and say '" Cut the check cut the check" I say take the damn check and go dude. I for one don't want to EVER have to stand on a picket line with your sorry ass anyway. Because let me tell you something....I'm the hillbilly that the scab is going to have to come over around and through to take mine and the guy walking the line next to me's job. And dude, I'm here to tell ya, that ain't going to happen.

Now before you all start your shit blasting me, understand this. I am not an officer in the union. I am simply one more hillbilly working the assembly line in Cleveland Engine Plant Two in Local 1250. I'm a coordinator on J line 3rd shift in case anyone wants to come by and argue this point.

But dude, if I can't trust you to walk that picket line with me and spill your blood for me like I would mine for you, then please by all means TAKE THE DAMN CHECK and GO ! Kiss Mark Fields balls for me on your way out the door will ya ?

Just one hillbillies opinion.....

[Goober]

Dude I want to thank you for saying what needs to be said. For untold months now I've sat back quietly and listened to far to many people bash this union. Yeah it isn't perfect. Yeah it's full of assholes from top to bottom. Yeah it's grown fat and lazy over the decades. But anybody with a brain the size of a pea would KILL to be a member of the UAW. You think I'm kidding? I'm not. Don't talk to me about the Toyota and Honda workers not accepting the UAW into their plants. The truth is they make what they make , BECAUSE the UAW has bargained over the years to make sure YOU make what you make. They are in my opinion nothing more than SCABS feeloading off our union dues. If and when this union is ever broken, watch how fast their "partners" in Toyota management cut their pay to 10 bucks an hour !

The ONLY reason anyone on this board can even THINK about a buyout or "Cutting that check" which seems to be a favorite by line amongst some of the people here is BECAUSE of the UAW. Does any nitwit think Steve Miller at Delphi got up in the morning one day and simply decided because he was a nice guy to buy his employees out? He did it because Rick Wagoner at GM called him and said "HEY ASSHOLE, I can't afford to have the UAW shut you down now get your head out of your ass and deal with them!"

Without this union, which seems to be falling apart from within and believe me the company knows this, none of us have ANYTHING. Fields gives us whatever size boot up the ass he wants. No buyouts, no SUB pay, no GEN pool, no GIS protection, no transfer rights NOTHING.

You people need to start reading more than the sports pages and the comic strips. If you did you would know that there is a CONCERTED REPUBLICAN ORAGANIZED AND WELL FINANCED movement underway to bust ALL unions. That was what was behind the disgusting and misguided post on here recently where the salaries of the international union were posted. Is anyone on here telling me that officers of the union should work for free? Do any of us?

The same group responsible for that posting also buys full page ads in USA Today ( a non union scab paper by the way ) with dark and forboding outright lies and innuendo about unions under the heading "What the unions don't want you to know" and then fills those ads with half truths slanted "Fox News" commentary and opinion along with assorterd twisted facts all designed to do nothing more than alienate the rank and file union membership at a time when we are all A} Under an all out assault on our very existence and B} when the rank and file are anxious about their futures and their very ability to survive.

The union isn't telling you anything because THEY DON"T KNOW YET EITHER ! The company wants it that way to increase the stress and anxiety and to foster dissent in the rank and file knowing you'll accept anything if they make you sweat enough ! Divide and conquer remember? Negotiation 101 .

You have a paid vacation? Thank the union. Health care? Thank the union. Make a good wage? Thank the union. Not have to give a shit whether your supervisor got laid last night and is in a good mood? Thank the union. Wondering if your plant will stay open or what you'll do with your buyout? Thank the union. No they can't make it perfect and all warm and fuzzy for every hillbilly like me who works the assembly line. Some of us will get screwed. But the fact is, now more than ever we ALL need this union.

The fact of the matter is " The Ford giveth and the Ford taketh away". The union makes sure its all distributed as fairly as possible.

For a lot of the young people on here who diss this union, who have what 3 years or 4 years seniority, and all you do is bitch about this or that and say '" Cut the check cut the check" I say take the damn check and go dude. I for one don't want to EVER have to stand on a picket line with your sorry ass anyway. Because let me tell you something....I'm the hillbilly that the scab is going to have to come over around and through to take mine and the guy walking the line next to me's job. And dude, I'm here to tell ya, that ain't going to happen.

Now before you all start your shit blasting me, understand this. I am not an officer in the union. I am simply one more hillbilly working the assembly line in Cleveland Engine Plant Two in Local 1250. I'm a coordinator on J line 3rd shift in case anyone wants to come by and argue this point.

But dude, if I can't trust you to walk that picket line with me and spill your blood for me like I would mine for you, then please by all means TAKE THE DAMN CHECK and GO ! Kiss Mark Fields balls for me on your way out the door will ya ?

Just one hillbillies opinion.....

Thank You for an excellent post!