Ford Banks on People Movers

[igor]

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A.../609120382/1148

 

here is a tidbit:

 

But Jim Hall, an analyst with AutoPacific in Southfield, has seen the production prototype for the Ford version and liked it. But he said Ford was smart to drop the Fairlane name.

 

"The vehicle is not the Fairlane. It has evolved from the concept," Hall said. He would not discuss the design because of a confidentiality agreement with Ford.

 

The new vehicle is expected to build on the design territory already carved out by the Ford Fusion sedan and Ford Edge crossover, and will feature similar design cues. It looks less like a tall wagon than the Fairlane concept and more like a taller take on the new Edge.

 

So it seems Ford is taking a page from Mazda's playbook, and the relationship between Edge/MKX and the D3 crossovers will be along the lines of the CX-7 to Cx9 relationship - somewhat bigger, with three rows.

 

Igor

[Harley Lover]

The article also mentions that it will not have sliding doors, so that also addresses one of my lingering questions about the design. I doubt it will have suicide doors, so as you've mentioned, it will be like the Edge in this area as well.

[Watchdevil]

Sounds too much like the Edge to me... Sounds like design by comittee where they end up with the same design as what they already have. Too many SUV's X-overs for one showroom if you ask me...

[lfeg]

I hope that they find a term other than People Movers to call this category. A people mover sounds like a bland generic transporter to get mass quantities of people from point A to point B with the lowest level of accomodations necessary - sort of like an airport tram.

 

Also, it looks as if there is already something in that (the large people mover) segment - the Pacifica by DC.

[ZanatWork]

I'm assuming this is meant to succeed the Freestar and Freestyle both. In that case, it would be the only car-based 3-row SUV/SAV in the showroom.

[Harley Lover]

Is it possible that the Freestyle will be retained and positioned in a manner similar to the Escape? That would give us the Escape and Edge in the midsize category, with the Escape wearing the SUV clothes and the Edge wearing crossover clothes, and the Freestyle and Fairlane (whatever the name will be) in the full size category, the Freestyle with SUV clothes and the Fairlane with crossover clothes. What do you think?

[goingincirclez]

Why oh why does every article about the Fairlane / "People Mover" seem to hinge on this one design gimmik:

 

"The D471 and D472 will offer three rows of seating, but eschew the sliding side door associated with minivans." (linked article)

 

So the emperor has new clothes? IMO the sliding door is a NECESSITY for any so-called "people mover". Not to mention, much more versatile. With that nice square hole in the side of the car, you can fit alomst anything in there... try that with a hinged 70deg. opening door. Compare loading your luggage/gear with you into a full vehicle with a sliding vs. conventional door. And would you want your kids to go flinging their doors into the cars/ trees /garage walls you had to park next to? Who is Ford going to market this thing to?

 

Maybe (just a speculative maybe) the reason that the Freestyle hasn't captured as much share as Ford would like is because while it's a worthy minivan replacement in many ways, it doesn't offer a sliding door - and since the Freestar van sucks people look elsewhere altogether?

 

In the end it comes down to what it looks like, and what it does. Vehicles in those segments are sold on versatility, and good style doesn't hurt (Style for style's sake, a la the Quest, can be a bad thing). You can put the slide track in the window frame an nobody notices a dang thing.

 

Now I agree that a fresh, new stylistic take on the "minivan" would be a good thing. But singling out one of their few most redeeming, versatile features as reason for the stigma they have is pretty shortsighted. It's like calling a hatch/wagon a "five-door". Or a small SUV/wagon a "crossover". In any case, they're not really fooling anyone. So make it perform the best way possible - for families and kids, that means a sliding door.

 

Otherwise, the Fairline is just a big Freestyle or Edge. WOWWWWWW.

Edited September 12, 2006 by goingincirclez

[one2gamble]

If it doesnt have sliding or suicide doors I dont see the point in building it at all. Just restyle the freestyle and call it a day....it would have been cheaper.

 

Ford better get something with a sliding door whether its teh "people mover" or one of its vans from Europe.

Edited September 12, 2006 by one2gamble

[wescoent]

I like that they're moving to a slightly rounder style. The boxy look could be a turnoff for many, and would compete way too much with the Freestyle right across the showroom. The boxy, Range Rover look of the Fairlane should be incorporated in the next Freestyle.

 

Big mistake by not offering sliding doors. Any minivan needs a flat floor, 2 rows of seats that fold into the floor, and sliding side doors.

[silvrsvt]

Without three rows, sliding power doors, power lift gate, and fold flat seating all standard, this will flop. Just like the Wind/Freestar.

 

One thing to consider is that Ford might be just saying FU to the Minivan market and going with something different? By adding sliding doors, that's exactly what the People mover becomes, a minivan.

 

Maybe a better way to look at it is its a full size CUV in the same vein as the Explorer/Expedition relationship? It just replaces the Windstar/Freestar because Ford doesn't offer a Minivan in the traditional sense?

 

It appeals to people who want an SUV and offers the versitilty that Minivan has, without the stigma that the Minivan has. Many women don't want to be caught dead in a minivan, thus why SUV's became so popular since the Mid-90's. I know they are practical and all, but they have a rotten image...

 

The vehicle, for a lack of a better term, has potential to start something different.

[goblue93]

One thing to consider is that Ford might be just saying FU to the Minivan market and going with something different? By adding sliding doors, that's exactly what the People mover becomes, a minivan.

 

Maybe a better way to look at it is its a full size CUV in the same vein as the Explorer/Expedition relationship? It just replaces the Windstar/Freestar because Ford doesn't offer a Minivan in the traditional sense?

 

It appeals to people who want an SUV and offers the versitilty that Minivan has, without the stigma that the Minivan has. Many women don't want to be caught dead in a minivan, thus why SUV's became so popular since the Mid-90's. I know they are practical and all, but they have a rotten image...

 

The vehicle, for a lack of a better term, has potential to start something different.

 

The stigma of the mini-van is due more to the small tires and poor styling than the sliding door. Any true people mover needs to have sliding doors. I won't let my five year old open the door on my Sport Trac anymore because she'll slam it into the car next to me every time. Mini van owners hit a button and all the kids can jump in by themselves. This is the #1 feature my wives friends rave about and basically settle for a mini van because of it. With swing doors, the Fairlane or whatever it will be called is just an Explorer with slightly better mileage.

[silvrsvt]

I understand your argument, but you know what a "people mover" without sliding doors is?

 

A Freestyle.

 

 

Yes it is, but it remains to be seen how Ford will differentant the two...or if the Freestyle becomes the Magellain

 

Would make lots of sense for Ford to call the new product the Freestyle and drop the current model to Mercury.

[waymondospiff]

While I appreciate sliding doors, many people automatically target sliding doors as being "minivanish." My Mazda5 is about the same length as a Nissan Sentra, but people call it a minivan because the doors slide. Yeah.

 

The true feature I'd look for in a minivan replacement is the flat, low floor. That's something that the Freestyle doesn't offer. And that makes the difference between a 140 cu. ft. minivan and the 80 cu. ft. Freestyle.

 

Scott

[OAC_Sparky]

The solution is simple......

 

GULL WING DOORS.

[Gnostic]

The solution is simple......

 

GULL WING DOORS.

 

 

suicide gull wing doors !!

[NLPRacing]

Without three rows, sliding power doors, power lift gate, and fold flat seating all standard, this will flop. Just like the Wind/Freestar.

 

 

I understand your argument, but you know what a "people mover" without sliding doors is?

 

A Freestyle.

 

From day one, I've always heard that the new "People Mover" going to Ford would replace the Freestar and would have sliding doors and Lincoln would get hinged doors. IIRC, that's why they have two different project codes. That's probably why there has been so many rumors on whether the Freestyle and/or Magellan was getting cancelled.

 

Despite reports of Chicago building some 08 Freestyles, I still believe that if the "People Mover formerly known as Fairlane" gets hinged doors in lieu of sliders (big mistake IMO), then the Freestyle as we know it will be dropped as a Ford and become a Mercury. But, if the "People Mover formerly known as Fairlane" does get sliders (as any minivan replacement should) then I believe Ford will keep the Freestyle in the lineup. As discussed above, the Freestyle can be the model above Escape and the People Mover thing can be the model above the Edge.

 

My vote for the names of the People Movers are Ford Econoline and Lincoln MKV.

[Gnostic]

My vote for the names of the People Movers are Ford Econoline .

 

I prefer Family Truckster

[one2gamble]

By adding sliding doors, that's exactly what the People mover becomes, a minivan.

 

 

That statement is 100% false. If I slapped sliding doors on an explorer it doesnt become a mini-van. A CUV styled "people-mover" with sliding or suicide doors would simply be killer in this market.

[silvrsvt]

That statement is 100% false. If I slapped sliding doors on an explorer it doesnt become a mini-van. A CUV styled "people-mover" with sliding or suicide doors would simply be killer in this market.

 

But the context everyone is taking this vechicle is as a minivan replacement...not something different then a minivan.

[dr511scj]

Why oh why does every article about the Fairlane / "People Mover" seem to hinge on this one design gimmik:

So the emperor has new clothes? IMO the sliding door is a NECESSITY for any so-called "people mover". Not to mention, much more versatile. With that nice square hole in the side of the car, you can fit alomst anything in there... try that with a hinged 70deg. opening door. Compare loading your luggage/gear with you into a full vehicle with a sliding vs. conventional door. And would you want your kids to go flinging their doors into the cars/ trees /garage walls you had to park next to? Who is Ford going to market this thing to?

 

You are correct, Sir.

 

However, the sales succes of SUVs, four-door coupes (e.g. Mazda RX-8, Saturn Ion) and four-door SuperCab/Club Cab/Extended Cab pickups tends to prove that fashion and "image" are sometimes more important than pure functionality. This is a univeral truth that extends beyond mere automobiles. If it wasn't, sales of such esoteric items as "ripped" jeans and spike-heeled women's shoes would also sell in much smaller numbers.

Edited September 12, 2006 by dr511scj

[dr511scj]

Without three rows, sliding power doors, power lift gate, and fold flat seating all standard, this will flop. Just like the Wind/Freestar.

 

You are probably correct with respect to the traditional minivan customer. On the other hand, "boxes" such as the Scion xB and the Honda Element suggest that the "garageable van" market is ripe for some breakout moves.

 

The main aesthetic distinction I see in the "Fairlane van" model is that it has a more "important" looking front clip (not unlike a truck/suv/old-school station wagon), instead of a traditional minivan's abbreviated hoodline. Ever since the days of Chrysler's Airflow (excluding, of course, the old and new Beetles and the Porsche 911) prominent front clips have garnered extra attention in the market place.

 

Too bad Ford hasn't figured out a way to make that "third row" accessible and comfortable for FULL-SIZED adults. That would truly be a "Bold Move!"

[Ovaltine]

Now I agree that a fresh, new stylistic take on the "minivan" would be a good thing. But singling out one of their few most redeeming, versatile features as reason for the stigma they have is pretty shortsighted. It's like calling a hatch/wagon a "five-door". Or a small SUV/wagon a "crossover". In any case, they're not really fooling anyone. So make it perform the best way possible - for families and kids, that means a sliding door.

 

I agree. If sliding doors suck so bad, why did Chrysler's minivan sales go through the roof in '97 when they introduced a *second* slider behind the driver?

 

Granted, the minivan segment is extremely competitive, and perhaps it's hard to make a profit in it. But... I don't think that they'll be going away wholesale anytime soon.

 

I think a combination of quality (aka: 3.8 V6 heads), dealer service issues, Asian infiltration of the segment, etc. spelled the death knell for the Windstar/Freestar.

 

Since the Edge is a standard 5 door hatchback, why not make the upcoming vehicle with sliders?

 

BONUS: Here's an interesting article from 2004 about the overall decline of the minivan market. It echos my sentiments above but also adds this little nugget of prophecy:

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m316...40/ai_113644191

 

"In 2003, including an estimate for overseas output aimed at North America, there was straight-time capacity for 1.496 million minivans. Sales of only 1.267 million, or 84.7% of capacity, represent a drastic drop from the 98% capacity attained in 2000 when North American light-vehicle sales hit an all-time high of 19.76 million, according to Ward's data.

 

Therefore, if minivan sales don't turn around, there could be a shakeout."

 

Well, we can now see who's doing the shakin'!

 

-Ovaltine

Edited September 12, 2006 by Ovaltine

[igor]

Too bad Ford hasn't figured out a way to make that "third row" accessible and comfortable for FULL-SIZED adults. That would truly be a "Bold Move!"

 

I have to admit I have never sat in a third row of any Ford newer than a 99 expedition (still with removable 3rd row, and no legroom), but from what I keep hearing - if anyone designed a fully useable 3rd row seats - it is Ford ..

 

Look at these pics of Freestyle: That looks huge.

 

 

Igor

[dr511scj]

Look at these pics of Freestyle: That looks huge.

Igor

 

 

But it's still too hard to get back in there for anyone over about 25 years of age, over 200 lbs, or 6'0" in height.

 

Besides, that guy with the laptop looks like a geek . . . who'd want to ride with him? That woman folded the seat forward to avoid having to . . . .

 

(that folded seat, BTW, shows what you have to climb over to get in back of a Freestyle)

 

And although overcapacity is a problem, given the Japanese poaching in the market (not to mention Ford's tardiness in keeping up with market innovations), the larger issue affecting the whole market is that minivans typically lack panache and robust images. SUV drivers are "sporty," independent and adventurous. The same person in a minivan is just a transportation bargain-hunter (the most mobile space for the least operational cost). And a single guy in a minivan is one of those folks your mama warned you about . . .

 

For the "Fairlane Van" to have success, it's got to capture some of the "frisky toughness" of an SUV along with the utilitarian practicality of a minivan. That's a job that nobody's perfected, yet.

[Footballfan]

Without sliding doors, what will differentiate it from a Freestyle? Again this is anohter failure waiting to happen. I have always wondered why Ford or GM did not offer a sliding door option on its large SUVs; Ford has a chance to offer a segment buster by having this type of vehichle, but again they are going to fall short. Let's hope this "people mover" is not like the original Honda Odyssy that failed- trying to capture minivan sales without sliding doors.