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Icspres

2020 Aviator Start Stop :-(

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1 minute ago, msm859 said:

Actually your backup plan should be the Aviator GT.  I suspect that will have no start/stop issues.  Funny different perspectives -  my only concern is that the GT won't reduce my carbon footprint enough over the standard model - so will be waiting for real world reviews on that issue.  This start/stop thing reminds of the "worry" some had on the Corvette forums with CAGS - that would at low speed would cause you to shift from 1st to 4th gear.  A lot of people were upset about that and bought devices to deactivate it.  I have had 4 manuals in 19 years - they all had it and it was a non issue for me.  If stop/start was to save 5% gas on every car sold that would be huge.

 

I was surprised to hear from my dealer that the GT behaves identically to the black label, hybrid has no effect on the start-stop behavior.

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30 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

I was surprised to hear from my dealer that the GT behaves identically to the black label, hybrid has no effect on the start-stop behavior.

 

Well hybrids already do start/stop and the only difference with the GT is how long it waits to start the engine depending on the mode.

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1 minute ago, akirby said:

 

Well hybrids already do start/stop and the only difference with the GT is how long it waits to start the engine depending on the mode.

 

Copy that. You'd think that in stop and go traffic though, hybrids would be more on battery power and not starting every time you take your foot off the brake, but apparently the Aviator GT does.

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On 9/9/2019 at 6:52 AM, blwnsmoke said:

 

There will be a way to turn it off, I am 100% confident.  It is just a matter of finding it.  All it requires is changing a "1" to a "0" in a particular line of code.

 

Voiding warranty?  Lol, never...  it is no different than putting it in Excite mode.. or hitting the off button upon startup every time.  It does not do anything else and there is no way anyone could or would avoid your warranty on something the vehicle already does.

 

No I am not affiliated with Forscan but have used it many times.  

So, does flipping the bit turn off stop/start or just change the default on the console switch (allowing it to be enabled with the switch)?  .... or may there be 2 bits: one to disable/enable the function and another to set the default?

 

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23 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

Copy that. You'd think that in stop and go traffic though, hybrids would be more on battery power and not starting every time you take your foot off the brake, but apparently the Aviator GT does.

I doubt the ICE motor would start every time you simply take your foot off the brake.  If you are in stop and go traffic moving slowly I would not expect the ICE to ever go on - unless you were perhaps in "Excite" mode.  In EV mode it should not start at all unless perhaps if you floor it. (Assuming you have a charged battery).  These are some real world testing I am waiting for.  The Range Rover Sport PHEV did have some issues with the ICE running when it should not have.  I am hoping Ford did a better job.

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1 minute ago, msm859 said:

I doubt the ICE motor would start every time you simply take your foot off the brake.  If you are in stop and go traffic moving slowly I would not expect the ICE to ever go on - unless you were perhaps in "Excite" mode.  In EV mode it should not start at all unless perhaps if you floor it. (Assuming you have a charged battery).  These are some real world testing I am waiting for.  The Range Rover Sport PHEV did have some issues with the ICE running when it should not have.  I am hoping Ford did a better job.

 

Freely admit the sales associate could have been wrong, but with an $80k sale on the line, she's insistent that the behavior of the GT start-stop is identical to the rest of the lineup.

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12 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

Copy that. You'd think that in stop and go traffic though, hybrids would be more on battery power and not starting every time you take your foot off the brake, but apparently the Aviator GT does.

 

I am not sure anyone knows exactly what the behavior of the Aviator GT will be as no one has one and press usually don't comment about those kinds of things.  I am sure a lot will depend on what drive mode you select.  I would guess Excite would always leave the engine running, Normal would operate off the battery more in city driving, Preserve EV would be regular start/stop (no EV usage), Pure EV would be battery only until it can't keep up.  Eco would probably delay normal ICE operation but engage after you are moving.

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10 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

Freely admit the sales associate could have been wrong, but with an $80k sale on the line, she's insistent that the behavior of the GT start-stop is identical to the rest of the lineup.

 

I would venture to say that most sales associates really don't know any more than we do.  Frankly we probably know more because we research it to death.  You can always go onto owner.lincoln.com and download the owners manuals for both the regular and PHEV versions of the Aviator and see what it says.

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5 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

 

I would venture to say that most sales associates really don't know any more than we do.  Frankly we probably know more because we research it to death.  You can always go onto owner.lincoln.com and download the owners manuals for both the regular and PHEV versions of the Aviator and see what it says.

 

10 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

 

I am not sure anyone knows exactly what the behavior of the Aviator GT will be as no one has one and press usually don't comment about those kinds of things.  I am sure a lot will depend on what drive mode you select.  I would guess Excite would always leave the engine running, Normal would operate off the battery more in city driving, Preserve EV would be regular start/stop (no EV usage), Pure EV would be battery only until it can't keep up.  Eco would probably delay normal ICE operation but engage after you are moving.

 

Agree the sales associate, though seemingly a Sr Assoc, probably isn't terribly technical and no idea how motivated she is regardless if they're going to sell every Aviator they get, which I'm sure they will. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll have a hybrid there as well.

 

I have confirmed though that the Aviator does have the excite setting and it does disable start-stop. Depending on how many motions are involved, roughly similar to the GLS button push hopefully.

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4 minutes ago, Icspres said:

 

 

Agree the sales associate, though seemingly a Sr Assoc, probably isn't terribly technical and no idea how motivated she is regardless if they're going to sell every Aviator they get, which I'm sure they will. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll have a hybrid there as well.

 

I have confirmed though that the Aviator does have the excite setting and it does disable start-stop. Depending on how many motions are involved, roughly similar to the GLS button push hopefully.

 

You are looking at probably December before any Aviator GT's show up on lots.  Production doesn't start until end of September or early October if it goes as scheduled and then you are looking at another month before they get the ok to ship to dealers.  Some dealers have been saying don't expect them until next year, others are more optimistic saying late this year.

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So my wife chose the Aviator.

 

The start stop never activated during our test drive. Turns out if it's too hot, it won't engage because the compressor has to stay on. If it's too cold it won't engage because the engine needs to stay warm. I don't think it's going to bother her at all.

 

So there you have it.

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3 hours ago, Icspres said:

So my wife chose the Aviator.

 

The start stop never activated during our test drive. Turns out if it's too hot, it won't engage because the compressor has to stay on. If it's too cold it won't engage because the engine needs to stay warm. I don't think it's going to bother her at all.

 

So there you have it.

Unless they changed the programming it'll work when hot out. Mine has kicked on many times with the A/C on, it just starts up sooner to cycle the compressor.

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Off topic, but my kids are really excited about heated and coold second row controlled by their very own touch screen. Kinda cool.

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On 9/11/2019 at 12:15 PM, Icspres said:

 

Freely admit the sales associate could have been wrong, but with an $80k sale on the line, she's insistent that the behavior of the GT start-stop is identical to the rest of the lineup.

Hmm... the GT "first drive" reviews said that the vehicle starts off from a stop in full electric mode for the instant torque, but then once the car is going the ICE will kick in. If that is true, the start/stop issue becomes irrelevant. 

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There are some desirable side benefits to autostop... super duty starter, long life corrosion proof AGM battery, better bearings and special antifriction coatings throughout the engine, electric pump in the trany to maintain pressure while the eingine is off, HVAC refinements, etc.  We have no problem switching between our one vehicle that has it and the others that don't.  It's an older model with crude starts and stops, but we don't even notice it anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by CoolScoop

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Don’t forget that in Excite mode the suspension is considerably tighter(at least in My dynamic suspension package) than in the other modes. Noticeable difference in bumpy roads. 

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On 9/8/2019 at 10:59 AM, Icspres said:

I've had a new Aviator black label on order for months now. My built slot is coming up in a couple of weeks and I'm just now being told by the dealer that it appears that the start-stop feature cannot be permanently disabled. We will very likely be turning the vehicle down and taking back our deposit when it comes in. What I'm hoping is that someone from Lincoln can give us some hope that there will be a software update down the road that will allow us to permanently disable the future. Thanks in advance.

 

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I understand your concern. Prior to buying our Aviator 2 weeks ago, I specifically asked the salesman if this feature can be turned off because I can’t stand it- he replied yes it could be turned off. Well, the truth of the matter is that it has to be manually turned off in the navigation screen each time you start the car! However, there is one saving grace: it does not go on when vehicle is in the excite mode! I prefer this mode anyway and I don’t think the MPG is that much less.

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43 minutes ago, Amyz said:

I understand your concern. Prior to buying our Aviator 2 weeks ago, I specifically asked the salesman if this feature can be turned off because I can’t stand it- he replied yes it could be turned off. Well, the truth of the matter is that it has to be manually turned off in the navigation screen each time you start the car! However, there is one saving grace: it does not go on when vehicle is in the excite mode! I prefer this mode anyway and I don’t think the MPG is that much less.

 

This is something you are seeing in just about all new cars these days with the start/stop feature. They have to have it default on in normal mode, I think, in order for the EPA to include that gas savings in the vehicle's MPG rating. But in sport mode it typically defaults to "off". 

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I guess I just don't understand the reluctance to Start/Stop.  I personally haven't driven one.  But I've been in my dad's F150 that has it.  I didn't even notice it.

 

To me, it hearkens back to the day when people didn't trust air bags and would put a belt around their steering wheel...

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I can understand people that have never had it before being bothered by it in limited driving such as a test drive.  I don't think it would take most to grow accustomed to it.  

 

I have a 'mild' hybrid Silverado and the start/stop is so smooth.  The small electric motor is connected to the crank so it 'flicks' on as soon as your foot leaves the brake.  I've driven trucks with the 'regular' start/stop and yes it isn't quite as instantaneous but after a couple days you'll start getting used to it.

 

This type of technology is coming whether you like it or not.  

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2 hours ago, 92merc said:

I guess I just don't understand the reluctance to Start/Stop.  I personally haven't driven one.  But I've been in my dad's F150 that has it.  I didn't even notice it.

 

To me, it hearkens back to the day when people didn't trust air bags and would put a belt around their steering wheel...

It has absolutely nothing to do with trust. To me, it’s very disconcerting to hear and feel the engine turn off- just like when a car stalls. Nor do I like the sensation/sound when the engine kicks back on. I don’t fear that the engine won’t turn back on. It’s simply  a matter of personal preference and numerous people dislike this feature! 

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I’d feel the same way if it wasn’t for my corporate vehicle having it (2017 F150 3.5T) and me being able to play with and learn to live with it.  Yes, sport mode disables it. But once you get used to it and are able to ‘manipulate’ it, there’s actually a sense that you’re saving fuel and not causing undue wear to the systems. 

 

By manipulate I mean mean that you can modulate the brake so it doesn’t shut off. Quite important when you need to enter an intersection quickly and get up to high speed! 

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This is a very smooth system; I’ve found most stop-start systems very intrusive but I actually don’t mind this one. 

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