RichardJensen Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: Gotcha! What I think is amazing is the large jump the 2.3EB AWD got from 2019 to 2020, even considering the relatively minor gear ratio change. HRG Here are the outgoing & incoming gear ratios. What do you make of them? 1 2 3 4 5 6 R Final drive 4.484 2.872 1.842 1.414 1.000 0.742 2.88 2.77, 3.16, 3.39 4.6957 2.9851 2.1462 1.7690 1.5201 1.2700 1.0000 0.8536 0.6892 0.6357 If the assumption is that the bulk of the demand on the powertrain comes at launch, are we looking at a higher tow rating based primarily on the first gear? Also, I wonder how much those three overdrive gears do to improve highway mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, RichardJensen said: Here are the outgoing & incoming gear ratios. What do you make of them? 1 2 3 4 5 6 R Final drive 4.484 2.872 1.842 1.414 1.000 0.742 2.88 2.77, 3.16, 3.39 4.6957 2.9851 2.1462 1.7690 1.5201 1.2700 1.0000 0.8536 0.6892 0.6357 If the assumption is that the bulk of the demand on the powertrain comes at launch, are we looking at a higher tow rating based primarily on the first gear? Also, I wonder how much those three overdrive gears do to improve highway mileage. I don't know? The SAE J2807 test protocol that both years used is supposed to be much more comprehensive that just off the line acceleration, maybe the new RWD-based chassis is just that much better? http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/towing/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard HRG Edited December 7, 2019 by HotRunrGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTEcoBoost Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) On 12/5/2019 at 4:24 PM, Trader 10 said: I think Ford’s in trouble with the new Escape. It’s just not a good enough effort in a class with lots of competition. There are a lot of remaining 2019’s even with $5000 rebates. I don’t think the new model sells anywhere close to the last generation unless big rebates are in place. The new Explorer has jumped a lot in price which may explain the decline there. We're finally seeing road tests of the new Escape and I hate to say it, but I was right on point. Ford blew it. The 3-cylinder was a misstep - it's buzzy and vibrates harshly. PLUS, it's way overpriced, considering that all of the competition offers an extra cylinder, often for less money. Ford had better have a backup plan. Predicted reliability (Consumer Reports) is also subpar. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of November Escape sales were '19s. The ads for it on TV (the '19) are nearly nonstop. The 3 cylinder is fine in the Ecosport (we'll soon see them in GM competition), but not in the Escape. The new Explorer looks too much like the old one and it's launch troubles are fairly well-known. Edited December 7, 2019 by CLTEcoBoost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: maybe the new RWD-based chassis is just that much better? http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/towing/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard HRG Maybe? But you'd think that would bump up tow rating across the board. Of course, if the 2.3 could pass every test except the launch on grade, they wouldn't pass the test... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, RichardJensen said: Here are the outgoing & incoming gear ratios. What do you make of them? 1 2 3 4 5 6 R Final drive 4.484 2.872 1.842 1.414 1.000 0.742 2.88 2.77, 3.16, 3.39 4.6957 2.9851 2.1462 1.7690 1.5201 1.2700 1.0000 0.8536 0.6892 0.6357 If the assumption is that the bulk of the demand on the powertrain comes at launch, are we looking at a higher tow rating based primarily on the first gear? Also, I wonder how much those three overdrive gears do to improve highway mileage. It’s not the ratios. You guys forgot that D4 2.3L was transverse with the 6F50 tranny whereas the 2020 gets the RWD 10R60. Edited December 7, 2019 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, akirby said: It’s not the ratios. You guys forgot that D4 2.3L was transverse with the 6F35 tranny whereas the 2020 gets the RWD 10R60. I thought the EcoBoost 2.3 got the 6F50/55? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 minute ago, RichardJensen said: I thought the EcoBoost 2.3 got the 6F50/55? 6f50 just corrected it. It’s still not as stout as the 10r60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, akirby said: 6f50 just corrected it. It’s still not as stout as the 10r60. Right--which would explain most of, if not all of the bump for the 3.5L, but the 2.3L jumps disproportionately: 2,300lbs vs. the 3.5L's 600lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Just now, RichardJensen said: Right--which would explain most of, if not all of the bump for the 3.5L, but the 2.3L jumps disproportionately: 2,300lbs vs. the 3.5L's 600lbs. Could it possibly be a misprint? That seems too weird to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 2 hours ago, CLTEcoBoost said: We're finally seeing road tests of the new Escape and I hate to say it, but I was right on point. Ford blew it. The 3-cylinder was a misstep - it's buzzy and vibrates harshly. PLUS, it's way overpriced, considering that all of the competition offers an extra cylinder, often for less money. Ford had better have a backup plan. Predicted reliability (Consumer Reports) is also subpar. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of November Escape sales were '19s. The ads for it on TV (the '19) are nearly nonstop. The 3 cylinder is fine in the Ecosport (we'll soon see them in GM competition), but not in the Escape. The new Explorer looks too much like the old one and it's launch troubles are fairly well-known. Aren’t those still pre production units? I’d wait til we see some owner reviews of actual production models before getting too concerned. Also - the 1.5 might be slightly down on hp compared to the competition 2.5L but gets the same fuel economy and Escape offers the 2.0Leb that the competition doesn’t have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, RichardJensen said: Right--which would explain most of, if not all of the bump for the 3.5L, but the 2.3L jumps disproportionately: 2,300lbs vs. the 3.5L's 600lbs. That is strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 3 hours ago, CLTEcoBoost said: We're finally seeing road tests of the new Escape and I hate to say it, but I was right on point. Ford blew it. The 3-cylinder was a misstep - it's buzzy and vibrates harshly. PLUS, it's way overpriced, considering that all of the competition offers an extra cylinder, often for less money. Ford had better have a backup plan. Predicted reliability (Consumer Reports) is also subpar. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of November Escape sales were '19s. The ads for it on TV (the '19) are nearly nonstop. The 3 cylinder is fine in the Ecosport (we'll soon see them in GM competition), but not in the Escape. The new Explorer looks too much like the old one and it's launch troubles are fairly well-known. Alright chicken little... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 2 hours ago, akirby said: It’s not the ratios. You guys forgot that D4 2.3L was transverse with the 6F50 tranny whereas the 2020 gets the RWD 10R60. What trans did the traverse 3.5NA use in 2019. it had a 5,000# rating. HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 41 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: What trans did the traverse 3.5NA use in 2019. it had a 5,000# rating. HRG The new 9 speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: What trans did the traverse 3.5NA use in 2019. it had a 5,000# rating. HRG Wait - did you mean the Chevy Traverse or the transverse Explorer 3.5L NA? Explorer was 6f50. Edited December 7, 2019 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 4 hours ago, akirby said: Wait - did you mean the Chevy Traverse or the transverse Explorer 3.5L NA? Explorer was 6f50. Traverse-mounted NA V6 in the Explorer. Sorry for the confusion. HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 23 hours ago, akirby said: Wait - did you mean the Chevy Traverse or the transverse Explorer 3.5L NA? Explorer was 6f50. 6f55 for NA with tow package or standard on Sport and Platinum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I get that Ford is still building sales momentum with Escape and Explorer, early production strategy is to build a richer sales mix with a lot more middle and higher trim levels, maybe take the winter to build inventory. Does anyone know if the 2020 gasoline Super Dutys are in production / being delivered yet, I can't wait to see the response to the new 7.3 V8, I'm hoping that it boosts sales and really stretches production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, blwnsmoke said: 6f55 for NA with tow package or standard on Sport and Platinum. I thought the 6f55 only came with the 3.5LEB (which I assume was std on sport and platinum) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, akirby said: I thought the 6f55 only came with the 3.5LEB (which I assume was std on sport and platinum) Nope, if you opted for the tow package on the NA 3.5, you also got the 6f55. I had it on my 2011 which the ecoboost 3.5 didnt come out till 2013 for the Explorer. Edited December 9, 2019 by blwnsmoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 31 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said: Nope, if you opted for the tow package on the NA 3.5, you also got the 6f55. I had it on my 2011 which the ecoboost 3.5 didnt come out till 2013 for the Explorer. Interesting. It's only referred to as the "selectshift automatic transmission" in the order guide and no mention of the model number on wikipedia. Good to know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, blwnsmoke said: Nope, if you opted for the tow package on the NA 3.5, you also got the 6f55. I had it on my 2011 which the ecoboost 3.5 didnt come out till 2013 for the Explorer. Does that go for the Flex too? Now I'm curious what transmission mine has. Tow package, AWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Does that go for the Flex too? Now I'm curious what transmission mine has. Tow package, AWD. Looks like just the normal 6F50 with or without the Tow package on Flex. At least it doesn't have the same verbiage in the order guide as the Explorer did. There should be a code or model number on the door jamb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, akirby said: Looks like just the normal 6F50 with or without the Tow package on Flex. At least it doesn't have the same verbiage in the order guide as the Explorer did. There should be a code or model number on the door jamb. Good to know. I'll have to look when I get home from running errands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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