ANTAUS Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Slow news day, so just a "What if" article... Autoblog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Yeah, I read this a bit ago, and sounds like they just made it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) I think they are looking at the VW based EV the wrong way, Ford changed what was going to be the C-Max EV into the MME around two years ago, so the hunt was then in for an EV that suited that basic role much better so I’d be thinking a more cost effective EV that actually uses its VW heritage to get Ford Europe some walk up credibility for Euro buyers. Edited December 28, 2019 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadicalX Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 How to trust a brand that has fraudulent emissions software? Who can not guarantee that the platform will not come rigged to damage the Ford and cause damage, bankrupt Ford and vw buy it next?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 54 minutes ago, RadicalX said: How to trust a brand that has fraudulent emissions software? Who can not guarantee that the platform will not come rigged to damage the Ford and cause damage, bankrupt Ford and vw buy it next?? And yet their sales in Europe are massive, for many there have moved on from dieselgate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 RadicalX ........I've been thinking and saying that also! They'll be dismantling International truck pretty soon and rebadging them MAN.....just wait and see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 2 hours ago, RadicalX said: How to trust a brand that has fraudulent emissions software? Who can not guarantee that the platform will not come rigged to damage the Ford and cause damage, bankrupt Ford and vw buy it next?? I don't think you need to worry about emissions software on a full electric vehicle... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 This article is pretty much all just made up. We can write a much better take just copy and paste from this forum ? Ford already said the Model E vehicles will be sold in Europe - starting with MACH E, and likely continue with the midsize square back CUV coming in 2 years. The only thing that changed between a year ago and now is that Ford no long plan to build Model E vehicles in Europe. Originally, Ford had planned to convert one of its plants in Europe to build smaller Model E vehicles (C-segment size instead of MACH E, which is D-segment) but that plan changed. And the reason that changed is because VW simply offered Hackett a deal so good he can't say no. VW is so worry about MEB not achieving the volume needed to breakeven, they are basically going to let Ford use MEB for free, and in exchange, also pay Ford to build a new Transporter based on the next gen Transit, and a new Amarok based on the next gen Ranger. So in the short term, Ford will save cash by not investing in a new Model E assembling plant and reap the cash flow from VW for new Transporter and Amarok. In the long run, if compact EV becomes a huge hit, Ford can still play catchup with next gen Model E platform, but it is effectively hedged in Europe either way. VW takes all the EV risks in Europe and Ford just wait and see. I have no doubt Ford will end up offering several MEB EVs in Europe. VW is planning at least 4 for the VW Brand: ID.3 - C-segment hatch ID.4 - C-segment CUV ID.Vizzion Space - D-segment wagon ID.Buzz - C-segment van And there will be SEAT, Skoda, and Audi versions of these vehicle (e.g. ID.4 will have a twin in Audi Q4 eTron) It is likely that Ford will skip the ID.Buzz van because that is very VW brand specific offering. And Ford probably will skip bigger MEBs in D-segment because it has Model E vehicles. So I think in 3 years, this is probably what Ford's European EV line up will look like MACH C - a version of ID.3 MACH C Active - a version of ID.4 MACH E - D segment fastback MACH E+ - the square back midsize CUV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passis Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 10 hours ago, bzcat said: This article is pretty much all just made up. We can write a much better take just copy and paste from this forum ? Ford already said the Model E vehicles will be sold in Europe - starting with MACH E, and likely continue with the midsize square back CUV coming in 2 years. The only thing that changed between a year ago and now is that Ford no long plan to build Model E vehicles in Europe. Originally, Ford had planned to convert one of its plants in Europe to build smaller Model E vehicles (C-segment size instead of MACH E, which is D-segment) but that plan changed. And the reason that changed is because VW simply offered Hackett a deal so good he can't say no. VW is so worry about MEB not achieving the volume needed to breakeven, they are basically going to let Ford use MEB for free, and in exchange, also pay Ford to build a new Transporter based on the next gen Transit, and a new Amarok based on the next gen Ranger. So in the short term, Ford will save cash by not investing in a new Model E assembling plant and reap the cash flow from VW for new Transporter and Amarok. In the long run, if compact EV becomes a huge hit, Ford can still play catchup with next gen Model E platform, but it is effectively hedged in Europe either way. VW takes all the EV risks in Europe and Ford just wait and see. I have no doubt Ford will end up offering several MEB EVs in Europe. VW is planning at least 4 for the VW Brand: ID.3 - C-segment hatch ID.4 - C-segment CUV ID.Vizzion Space - D-segment wagon ID.Buzz - C-segment van And there will be SEAT, Skoda, and Audi versions of these vehicle (e.g. ID.4 will have a twin in Audi Q4 eTron) It is likely that Ford will skip the ID.Buzz van because that is very VW brand specific offering. And Ford probably will skip bigger MEBs in D-segment because it has Model E vehicles. So I think in 3 years, this is probably what Ford's European EV line up will look like MACH C - a version of ID.3 MACH C Active - a version of ID.4 MACH E - D segment fastback MACH E+ - the square back midsize CUV Exactly. Agree on alls parts... Except the name: do you think Ford will name a VW based car with one of its most iconic nameplates? I have the impression that MEB Fords will be more compliance cars than the MME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, passis said: Exactly. Agree on alls parts... Except the name: do you think Ford will name a VW based car with one of its most iconic nameplates? I have the impression that MEB Fords will be more compliance cars than the MME. I think bzcat was just saying that the MME would be built at a VW plant. As it's also going to be sold stateside, and is already under development, it's not going to use a VW architecture. Edited December 30, 2019 by RichardJensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 MME will be exported from Mexico to Europe is my guess. The MEB models who knows... I just made up the MACH C name but Ford could easily bring back C-Max or Maverick or Escort, or any names it has used in Europe. Or it could use new names. The point is I think Ford will only be using MEB on C-segment EVs. The larger model will be using Ford's own Model E architecture. Using MEB just allows Ford to delay the capital investment needed to setup a second full EV assembly plant until the market matures for lower cost EVs. VW is the one taking the capital hits now for MEB... Ford just waits and pay rent to use the palace that VW is building. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) It’s a safe bet to use MEB as a Euro based EV or group of vehicles, the rate of change with EV development is just so fast at the moment. I’d love to know exactly where all of the $11 billion is being spent.... Edited December 30, 2019 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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