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kyle

Mach E Review by Munro

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He seems impressed with it on initial impressions.

 

Conversely, he didn't like the ID.4 much.

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Posted (edited)

I've seen Sandy Munro on Autoline over the years, and his segments are always interesting.

 

I like these videos he does as well.

 

 

 

 

He seems very impressed with the Mach E based on his initial looks all around.

Edited by rmc523

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14 hours ago, 92merc said:

Episode #5 is up.  Mr. Munro likes it.

 

 

He gets into it and is actually way more aggressive driver than I would of thought.......great video. 

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It will be interesting when he gets his hands on the new bronco.  If Ford put as much thought into it as he they did into the Mach E, it will be a rock solid performer. kudos to the Mach E engineering team, the engineering is in impressive.

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1 hour ago, pictor said:

It will be interesting when he gets his hands on the new bronco.  If Ford put as much thought into it as he they did into the Mach E, it will be a rock solid performer. kudos to the Mach E engineering team, the engineering is in impressive.


Sadly it won't be as impressive, the MACH-E program was allowed to have engineers make final decisions that could over rule financial ones. It is hands down the best engineered vehicle to come out of Ford in the past 30+ years.  It was not subject to cost cutting/constraints the way the Bronco program was, and while the Bronco will be better than the Wrangler the idea to add luxury at the top end to it to also have it compete against the Land Rover was removed for the time being.  The Bronco will be impressive, but the MACH-E was allowed to be in a class of its own 

 

Edited by jasonj80

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Thanks again kyle for sharing the Sandy Munro video series on Mustang Mach-E. Munro is a legend in automotive engineering circles for his fanatical attention to detail, so the praise Munro gave Mustang Mach-E is a big deal for sure.

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7 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

It was not subject to cost cutting/constraints the way the Bronco program was, and while the Bronco will be better than the Wrangler the idea to add luxury at the top end to it to also have it compete against the Land Rover was removed for the time being.  The Bronco will be impressive, but the MACH-E was allowed to be in a class of its own 

 

Why would Ford be chasing Land Rover down with the Bronco? I don't think there would be that much crossover customer wise. I'd venture to guess that the total amount of Defenders going hard core off roading is pretty small. 

 

The Mach E is a brand new product in a new segment that they need to get desperately right to stay viable in the future. I'm sure the F-150 BEV is getting the same treatment. 

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32 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Why would Ford be chasing Land Rover down with the Bronco? I don't think there would be that much crossover customer wise. I'd venture to guess that the total amount of Defenders going hard core off roading is pretty small. 

 

The Mach E is a brand new product in a new segment that they need to get desperately right to stay viable in the future. I'm sure the F-150 BEV is getting the same treatment. 

 

It could've had nicer interior materials for its upper pricepoint.

 

And yes, I know about the washout interior, offroading abilities, etc.  But materials could've been "fancier", at least optionally.

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15 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Why would Ford be chasing Land Rover down with the Bronco? I don't think there would be that much crossover customer wise. I'd venture to guess that the total amount of Defenders going hard core off roading is pretty small. 

 

The Mach E is a brand new product in a new segment that they need to get desperately right to stay viable in the future. I'm sure the F-150 BEV is getting the same treatment. 


The number of Bronco's going off road is going to be very small too. Which is why you go after those customers, they will pay for things.  

 

The Bronco is pretty pricey for what you get and the amount of features it doesn't have it actually surprising at the top end for a 60K vehicle. From little things like no cupholders in the back without Leather, no power seats on the 2 door,  to missing tech and features that has been out for years/decades -- no lane centering, no stop and go adaptive cruise, no full digital IP, no rain sensing wipers, no memory seats/mirrors, no heated seats in the back, no cooled seats, no blue cruise, no power-folding mirrors or even turn signals in them, even the Ford staple keypad isn't properly done, etc. Its missing features and at that price point and the Jeep Wrangler has a lot of those. 

The materials in a lot of the areas are the same as my now 11 year old truck and the interior options and trim levels are crazy and confusing. I'm not sure if this program had a bunch of cost cutting or if Ford knew they could make a lot of money because we were so excited for the Bronco to come out and make a bunch of money and just leave everything off.

Compare that to the MACH-E that is on par feature for feature with everything in that segment and blows away the segment with the interior materials, fit and finish is the best of any Ford I've been in. MACH-E is Ford's best work, I suspect the Electric F-150 will be similar. The Bronco will be good vehicle but will not be earth shattering in the engineering dept. and honestly some of the engineering is sub-par compared to other Ford vehicles. 

 

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1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:

The Bronco is pretty pricey for what you get and the amount of features it doesn't have it actually surprising at the top end for a 60K vehicle. From little things like no cupholders in the back without Leather, no power seats on the 2 door,  to missing tech and features that has been out for years/decades -- no lane centering, no stop and go adaptive cruise, no full digital IP, no rain sensing wipers, no memory seats/mirrors, no heated seats in the back, no cooled seats, no blue cruise, no power-folding mirrors or even turn signals in them, even the Ford staple keypad isn't properly done, etc. Its missing features and at that price point and the Jeep Wrangler has a lot of those.  

 

Most of the options you mention aren't on jeep models either.

Didn't see the following:
Power seats

Cooled seats

No heated rear seat

 

Keypad is kinda useless when you don't have doors installed on your Bronco. 

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1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:


The number of Bronco's going off road is going to be very small too. Which is why you go after those customers, they will pay for things.  

 

The Bronco is pretty pricey for what you get and the amount of features it doesn't have it actually surprising at the top end for a 60K vehicle. From little things like no cupholders in the back without Leather, no power seats on the 2 door,  to missing tech and features that has been out for years/decades -- no lane centering, no stop and go adaptive cruise, no full digital IP, no rain sensing wipers, no memory seats/mirrors, no heated seats in the back, no cooled seats, no blue cruise, no power-folding mirrors or even turn signals in them, even the Ford staple keypad isn't properly done, etc. Its missing features and at that price point and the Jeep Wrangler has a lot of those. 

 

We might see more electronics available next year. It actually turned out to be a prudent, maybe deliberate, decision to limit electronic content to put more metal on the road rather than gathering bird droppings in some lot waiting for chips.

 

 

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I'm sure we'll see more options and features in a couple of years.   They had their plate overflowing just getting the basic vehicle and accessories out the door.

 

And the lack of those options certainly won't impact sales for the first 2 years.

Edited by akirby

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55 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Most of the options you mention aren't on jeep models either.

Didn't see the following:
Power seats

Cooled seats

No heated rear seat

 

Keypad is kinda useless when you don't have doors installed on your Bronco. 


Well being that most people will have doors off less than 1% of the time and when I'm camping or hiking the doors will be on it as I'll need the cargo space it makes it very nice to lock the keys inside. There isn't great cell reception in Northern Michigan especially if it  is summer and raining so Fordpass is useless.  Will it stop people from buying it no, but it contributes to their ownership experience and happiness with the vehicle.  But Ford could save $8 so its gone. Which is why the MACH-E is such a great engineered vehicle; there wasn't the kind of cost cutting in the production of it, eliminate this, skimp on that etc. There was not the debate on seals that we can save $1 if we make it cheaper, or just use a single material to safe $15. It was developed with quality and feel in mind, yes there was a limit but the design was to make a mark. They spent the .25 cents more to make the arm rest a more durable foam so be it.

Jeep does offer some of that, (wipers, mirror repeaters, full stop cruise etc.) and they will offer more as time goes on as Ford will as well. The core difference is  Ford made the Bronco better than the Jeep, it picked that as their benchmark and made a better vehicle today, it didn't look to other off roaders like the Defender or GX as a way to upsell or actually move those people over which it very easily could of. In a world where success is viewed by a growing group as evil it allows some to have luxury but not flaunt it. There was a pent up sales for a time and all that was necessary was to made a better vehicle than a Wrangler. They made the MACH-E a world class vehicle; where as the Bronco is a highly competitive vehicle; there is nothing wrong with that at all I will be owning a Bronco but the programs were not offered the same latitude in Ford for making the best vehicle possible at a price point.  

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4 hours ago, jasonj80 said:


The number of Bronco's going off road is going to be very small too. Which is why you go after those customers, they will pay for things.  

 

The Bronco is pretty pricey for what you get and the amount of features it doesn't have it actually surprising at the top end for a 60K vehicle. From little things like no cupholders in the back without Leather, no power seats on the 2 door,  to missing tech and features that has been out for years/decades -- no lane centering, no stop and go adaptive cruise, no full digital IP, no rain sensing wipers, no memory seats/mirrors, no heated seats in the back, no cooled seats, no blue cruise, no power-folding mirrors or even turn signals in them, even the Ford staple keypad isn't properly done, etc. Its missing features and at that price point and the Jeep Wrangler has a lot of those. 

The materials in a lot of the areas are the same as my now 11 year old truck and the interior options and trim levels are crazy and confusing. I'm not sure if this program had a bunch of cost cutting or if Ford knew they could make a lot of money because we were so excited for the Bronco to come out and make a bunch of money and just leave everything off.

Compare that to the MACH-E that is on par feature for feature with everything in that segment and blows away the segment with the interior materials, fit and finish is the best of any Ford I've been in. MACH-E is Ford's best work, I suspect the Electric F-150 will be similar. The Bronco will be good vehicle but will not be earth shattering in the engineering dept. and honestly some of the engineering is sub-par compared to other Ford vehicles. 

 

 

Bronco does have turn signals in the mirrors.  Not on all trims, but they are an option.

 

I do agree with you on your other points, and I'm disappointed a lot of it is missing at the pricepoint.

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17 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Bronco does have turn signals in the mirrors.  Not on all trims, but they are an option.

 

I do agree with you on your other points, and I'm disappointed a lot of it is missing at the pricepoint.

 
They are just the spotlights, none I have see driving around have had them, but those are also weird builds. Maybe if you get the tow package they are included? Just quickly glanced at the order-guide and didn't see them anywhere, but could be and are just not listed. 

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10 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

 
They are just the spotlights, none I have see driving around have had them, but those are also weird builds. Maybe if you get the tow package they are included? Just quickly glanced at the order-guide and didn't see them anywhere, but could be and are just not listed. 

 

Hm, I could've sworn those were orange on some trims and that they had both spotlights and signals (like F-150), but I also don't see them called out specifically.

 

On your earlier point, the non-power folding mirrors are done because you need to push them forward to remove the door.

 

----

 

I'm sure we'll (annoyingly for first adopters) see much of the missing tech added in coming model years.

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12 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

I'm sure we'll (annoyingly for first adopters) see much of the missing tech added in coming model years.


Well that is a Good Excuse to upgrade to a Warthog!  Though honestly if I end up getting pushed to 2022 even though I have a super early reservation I'll probably end up with a new Raptor come October; Hopefully I get the emails soon as to when we can expect a build. Being a 4 door, Lux Wildtrak with tow I'm not expecting it anytime soon.

 

Worse is I'm not even sure I'll get an email as the site just says "dealer ordered" and "contact dealer" for everything with mine. I don't have the progress bar and still shows the wrong trim picture and wrong color on the site. My DORA is correct though so that is good.

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59 minutes ago, 30 OTT 6 said:

Looks like the only thing the Mach E shares with the Mustang is the badge.

 

You mean other than front and rear styling and performance?

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Looking forward to Sandy Munro and his engineering firm doing a teardown and profitability analysis of Mustang Mach-E, like he did a couple years back for Tesla Model 3. Munro and Associates is among the best in the world at doing this kind of work.

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51 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:


Well that is a Good Excuse to upgrade to a Warthog!  Though honestly if I end up getting pushed to 2022 even though I have a super early reservation I'll probably end up with a new Raptor come October; Hopefully I get the emails soon as to when we can expect a build. Being a 4 door, Lux Wildtrak with tow I'm not expecting it anytime soon.

 

Worse is I'm not even sure I'll get an email as the site just says "dealer ordered" and "contact dealer" for everything with mine. I don't have the progress bar and still shows the wrong trim picture and wrong color on the site. My DORA is correct though so that is good.

 

Yeah, I've been pushed to a '22 because I'm a Wildtrak Lux and black painted roof, so I feel your pain lol.

 

I doubt a Warthog is in the budget, as I'm pushing it as is already.  Though leasing could be interesting as a way to hope they add features down the road.

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