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Jamers

2021 Explorer ST Incentive

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My ordered 2021 Explorer ST just arrirved at the Dealership.  Was gonna take delivery on 3 year lease on Saturday Oct 2nd.  Not sure, but I don't think there are any rebates at the moment.  Should I maybe push back delivery to the following Saturday Oct. 9th in hopes that Ford will announce some rebates?

 

Or are market conditions now as such that it is highly unlikely Ford will offer any rebates in October?

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I’d say new rebates are unlikely.  But always a gamble.

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I have a 22 Timberline on order (Green). My dealer called and said they have a 21 Timberline that just arrived. Black in color, which my wife really wanted the green. They offered 1000 below invoice, which included 500 retail rebate, and we decided to purchase. Its an awesome car, but we still may trade it for the 22 Timberline with the Green color my wife loves

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Baddestt said:

I have a 22 Timberline on order (Green). My dealer called and said they have a 21 Timberline that just arrived. Black in color, which my wife really wanted the green. They offered 1000 below invoice, which included 500 retail rebate, and we decided to purchase. Its an awesome car, but we still may trade it for the 22 Timberline with the Green color my wife loves

 

Hi Baddestt. Congratulations!

 

Sorry if this question seems silly, but we have seen it happen in the past so I am just curious: What exactly are you referring to as "$1,000 below invoice"? What "invoice" are you referring to? Are you describing the window sticker (Monroney) price as "Invoice"?

 

Or did the Salesperson show you the actual, "real" invoice price on the back office Dealer paperwork?

 

Again, only asking because similar situations have happened before.

 

Good luck with your new Explorer!

Edited by bbf2530

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15 minutes ago, bbf2530 said:

Sorry if this question seems silly, but we have seen it happen in the past so I am just curious: What exactly are you referring to as "$1,000 below invoice"? What "invoice" are you referring to? Are you describing the window sticker (Monroney) price as "Invoice"?

 

Or did the Salesperson show you the actual, "real" invoice price on the back office Dealer paperwork?

 

I would normally ignore a post like this but when you refer to "real" invoices and "back-office Dealer paperwork" it implies that there are also fake invoices and other paperwork and that dealerships have different invoice versions that they can choose from to show customers. If that's what you're implying, you're completely wrong. There is only one Window Sticker and one Dealer Invoice and any Dealer creating fake documents and using them to mislead and/or deceive customers would face severe consequences under the law including losing their Ford franchise.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

I would normally ignore a post like this but when you refer to "real" invoices and "back-office Dealer paperwork" it implies that there are also fake invoices and other paperwork and that dealerships have different invoice versions that they can choose from to show customers. If that's what you're implying, you're completely wrong. There is only one Window Sticker and one Dealer Invoice and any Dealer creating fake documents and using them to mislead and/or deceive customers would face severe consequences under the law including losing their Ford franchise.  

 

Hi ice-capades. No, I did not mean or imply that at all, and would hope you know me better. 😉

 

No ulterior motives at all. What I was referring to, or wondering, is whether "Baddestt" thinks the Window Sticker/Monroney price is also the "Invoice price". I have seen it happen before, as I mentioned.

As you know, due to the pandemic induced commodity shortages, many/most auto dealers are charging window sticker price and above, not giving "$1,000  off Invoice", even with manufacturer rebates/incentives. And yes, there are exceptions and I hope this is one of them for Baddestt.

 

So I was simply hoping Baddestt did not get confused about the pricing, so therefore inquiring about it.

 

And when I referred to "back-office Dealer paperwork", I simply mean the paperwork that many (and possibly most) buyers usually never see, because it is in the "back office".

In other words, the Dealer paperwork containing the Invoice pricing, A/X/Z Plan pricing etc. etc. I was not referring to "fake documents" or inferring there are/were "fake documents".

 

I am simply hoping Baddestt did not confuse "$1,000 off of the Window Sticker/Monroney price" as being the same as "$1,000 under Invoice price". Again, because I have seen cases of buyers believing that the price on the Window Sticker is the Invoice price.

 

No salesperson or Dealer honesty insults, no implying fake paperwork etc. Just asking Baddestt how he/she obtained the "Invoice price' and determined they got "$1,000 under Invoice".

 

Hope that makes it clearer and you will not feel the need to ignore me in the future. 🙃😉

Edited by bbf2530

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15 hours ago, bbf2530 said:

 

Hi ice-capades. No, I did not mean or imply that at all, and would hope you know me better. 😉

 

No ulterior motives at all. What I was referring to, or wondering, is whether "Baddestt" thinks the Window Sticker/Monroney price is also the "Invoice price". I have seen it happen before, as I mentioned.

As you know, due to the pandemic induced commodity shortages, many/most auto dealers are charging window sticker price and above, not giving "$1,000  off Invoice", even with manufacturer rebates/incentives. And yes, there are exceptions and I hope this is one of them for Baddestt.

 

So I was simply hoping Baddestt did not get confused about the pricing, so therefore inquiring about it.

 

And when I referred to "back-office Dealer paperwork", I simply mean the paperwork that many (and possibly most) buyers usually never see, because it is in the "back office".

In other words, the Dealer paperwork containing the Invoice pricing, A/X/Z Plan pricing etc. etc. I was not referring to "fake documents" or inferring there are/were "fake documents".

 

I am simply hoping Baddestt did not confuse "$1,000 off of the Window Sticker/Monroney price" as being the same as "$1,000 under Invoice price". Again, because I have seen cases of buyers believing that the price on the Window Sticker is the Invoice price.

 

No salesperson or Dealer honesty insults, no implying fake paperwork etc. Just asking Baddestt how he/she obtained the "Invoice price' and determined they got "$1,000 under Invoice".

 

Hope that makes it clearer and you will not feel the need to ignore me in the future. 🙃😉

 

No problem! I appreciate your feedback and the clarification about the point you were trying to make. My reaction was perhaps outdated based on current market situations and instead a reaction to experiences I've seen from customers over the years. A number of times over the years a customer would be shown an actual invoice and then ask to see the "real" invoice! I too have trouble understanding why a Dealer would offer to sell a vehicle below invoice, let alone $1,000 below. 

 

Thanks again for the feedback which is appreciated! 

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3 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

No problem! I appreciate your feedback and the clarification about the point you were trying to make. My reaction was perhaps outdated based on current market situations and instead a reaction to experiences I've seen from customers over the years. A number of times over the years a customer would be shown an actual invoice and then ask to see the "real" invoice! I too have trouble understanding why a Dealer would offer to sell a vehicle below invoice, let alone $1,000 below. 

 

Thanks again for the feedback which is appreciated! 


It should be obvious why customers don’t trust a dealer invoice - holdbacks and other dealer incentives that reduce the amount the dealer actually pays.

Now I don’t expect any vehicle should be sold below invoice (not counting A/Z/D plans or factory rebates) because the dealer deserves to make a profit.

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4 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

No problem! I appreciate your feedback and the clarification about the point you were trying to make. My reaction was perhaps outdated based on current market situations and instead a reaction to experiences I've seen from customers over the years. A number of times over the years a customer would be shown an actual invoice and then ask to see the "real" invoice! I too have trouble understanding why a Dealer would offer to sell a vehicle below invoice, let alone $1,000 below. 

 

Thanks again for the feedback which is appreciated! 

I always assumed any price below invoice included some sort of factory to dealer incentive to move older or dated inventory, or some sort of volume bonus.  For example when I got my Expedition, the dealer had it listed for ~$6200 below sticker without any rebates.  The rebates and my PCO drove the price down another $6500 or so.  I wasn't local so they weren't making any future revenue from me and I only financed enough to get one of the FMC rebates, so I figured there had to be something on that VIN that was a factory incentive to the dealer and they just wanted to move it.  It had been sitting on their lot for 60+ days.  They grossed about $3000 on my Explorer that I traded to them when they sold it a couple weeks later, which I consider fair.

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On 10/7/2021 at 12:58 PM, bbf2530 said:

 

Hi Baddestt. Congratulations!

 

Sorry if this question seems silly, but we have seen it happen in the past so I am just curious: What exactly are you referring to as "$1,000 below invoice"? What "invoice" are you referring to? Are you describing the window sticker (Monroney) price as "Invoice"?

 

Or did the Salesperson show you the actual, "real" invoice price on the back office Dealer paperwork?

 

Again, only asking because similar situations have happened before.

 

Good luck with your new Explorer!

Definately the real invoice as indicated on the printout. $46228 was the invoice. $47,900 MSRP (No sunroof. Only options were cargo mat and cross roof bars). 1k below invoice is $45,228 ($500 retail rebate, plus $500 First responder rebate). Plus 2k equity deduction from our old explorer trade in. $43,228 was final price before our downpayment and taxes, title registration and their $149 doc fee. They had another Green 2021 Timberline that was in transit (dealer stock). We swapped the black one for the 21 green metallic Timberline and my wife is super happy. They sold the black one same day! This dealer in MN all 22 orders are at invoice ($500 deposit), and there is a dealer in Iowa that does 2% below invoice but they are $1000 non-refunadble deposit.

Glad we got the 21 with the cup holders between the 2nd row bucket seats. The 22 model Ford removed it. Dealer said they sell the Timberlines within 1 day of arrival!

My only grip is, we are in MN. It did not come with a engine block heater!! It's an option that we did select on the cancelled 22 order. The dealer does not order them with block heaters, although we are in one of the coldest states in the country. Makes NO sense. And why Ford does not include the block heater as standard in the Northern states is rediculous. 

Edited by Baddestt

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2 hours ago, Baddestt said:

Definately the real invoice as indicated on the printout. $46228 was the invoice. $47,900 MSRP (No sunroof. Only options were cargo mat and cross roof bars). 1k below invoice is $45,228 ($500 retail rebate, plus $500 First responder rebate). Plus 2k equity deduction from our old explorer trade in. $43,228 was final price before our downpayment and taxes, title registration and their $149 doc fee. They had another Green 2021 Timberline that was in transit (dealer stock). We swapped the black one for the 21 green metallic Timberline and my wife is super happy. They sold the black one same day! This dealer in MN all 22 orders are at invoice ($500 deposit), and there is a dealer in Iowa that does 2% below invoice but they are $1000 non-refunadble deposit.

Glad we got the 21 with the cup holders between the 2nd row bucket seats. The 22 model Ford removed it. Dealer said they sell the Timberlines within 1 day of arrival!

My only grip is, we are in MN. It did not come with a engine block heater!! It's an option that we did select on the cancelled 22 order. The dealer does not order them with block heaters, although we are in one of the coldest states in the country. Makes NO sense. And why Ford does not include the block heater as standard in the Northern states is rediculous. 


Its misleading to call that $1k below invoice because you’re including Ford to customer rebates.  You paid the dealership invoice and Ford gave you $1k back.

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How do you get the dealer to honor incentives at the time of order? 

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My 22 was ordered at 4% under invoice. My buddy got a gladiator 7% under from same dealer group but obviously with jeep. They only did this with custom orders. They absolutely would not do it with anything sitting on the lot. 

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2 hours ago, st8 said:

My 22 was ordered at 4% under invoice. 


Not without incentives.  

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On 10/11/2021 at 11:33 PM, akirby said:


Not without incentives.  

I don’t know what it is. But I’m getting it for 4% under invoice then likely $1k off with ford custom orders. 

Edited by st8

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