akirby Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Ok, see if this makes sense and whether you think dealers would accept it or if it would run afoul of state franchise laws. Ford creates a new order type - call it F plan. It’s available to anyone but you do have to sign up to order. The terms are the same as X plan but the price is MSRP. $100 doc fee. Must keep it for 12 months. Dealers have to sign up to participate and agree to the pricing terms. When you order online you pick a participating dealer. Just like the reservation system except you have guaranteed pricing with no surprises. These F plan orders are above the normal dealer allocation and all orders are assigned priority 9 so they’re built before dealer stock and non F plan retail orders. If you want to negotiate with the dealer or buy something off the lot that’s available. If you want to order you get no haggle pricing with no surprises and priority on the build. Dealers don’t lose any regular allocation. What do you think? Would dealers sue using franchise laws? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 What are you signing up for? And does the dealer get their normal profit margin from an MSRP order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 24 minutes ago, rmc523 said: What are you signing up for? And does the dealer get their normal profit margin from an MSRP order? The buyer is just creating an account that allows them to place the order. I assume the same way you did your Bronco reservation. Yes, it’s just a normal sale for the dealer. MSRP plus $100 doc fee. No inventory or effort required by the dealer up front - just prep and deliver. That is far more than they ever made in the past on an average vehicle sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 So "F-plan" essentially cuts the Sales Reps out of the picture? From a Dealership perspective, I'm sure many would complain that the (current) profit (MSRP - invoice + holdback) still wouldn't cover their prep and delivery costs, especially on a lower-cost vehicle like the Maverick we had been talking about ($25K range). Like you've mentioned before, the days of $10K off your F-150 may be long gone. Will be interesting to see how your up-coming '23 Nautilus order and purchase goes, and what your chosen Dealer is willing to accept and commit to. I'd hate to read that at time of delivery a $10K ADM gets added, just because they can. I don't see F-plan as stopping that practice, that's where the franchise laws may get tested, the ability of the Dealer to set final selling price. Until the supply-chain issues are behind us, why would a Dealership agree to F-plan, and limit their profit potential? HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 As for MSRP not covering prep and delivery - they’ve been selling closer to invoice for decades so that shouldn’t be a problem. But I do think Ford will raise MSRPs. As to why a dealer would participate - they don’t lose the ability to sell stock or do retail orders above MSRP with their normal allocation. These sales would represent additional allocation so there is no penalty for them and almost no work involved but they still get the back end financing, trade in etc. And if they don’t participate other dealers surely will and they’ll get a lot of additional business. I don’t see why any dealer would balk at this from a financial perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 58 minutes ago, akirby said: As for MSRP not covering prep and delivery - they’ve been selling closer to invoice for decades so that shouldn’t be a problem. But I do think Ford will raise MSRPs. The PDI (Pre-Delivery Inspection a/k/a Prep) is included in the cost of the vehicle. The ordering Dealer is reimbursed the flat rate PDI fee from Ford. Edited February 8, 2022 by ice-capades Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 I think for those who hate to negotiate this would work well. As far as dealer profit, between the difference of MSRP and invoice, the holdback, the floor plan assistance they would pocket for the vehicle not sitting and back end bonuses on volume, this is a big win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 43 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said: I think for those who hate to negotiate this would work well. As far as dealer profit, between the difference of MSRP and invoice, the holdback, the floor plan assistance they would pocket for the vehicle not sitting and back end bonuses on volume, this is a big win. Most are already doing MSRP or below for orders so this should be a win/win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 MSRP is basically what we are doing on Factory orders anyways....what of orders that fall through...still is and always has been an issue....and now Ford expects some sort of letter or proof of the reason the initial customer didn't take delivery... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Deanh said: MSRP is basically what we are doing on Factory orders anyways....what of orders that fall through...still is and always has been an issue....and now Ford expects some sort of letter or proof of the reason the initial customer didn't take delivery... I just purchased a RAV4 Hybrid on order, had to put a $1,000 deposit down to hold the allocation spot. It was clearly written as non refundable unless you can show a legitimate reason for not purchasing (aka financing falling through). I think that would work just fine for orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, blazerdude20 said: I just purchased a RAV4 Hybrid on order, had to put a $1,000 deposit down to hold the allocation spot. It was clearly written as non refundable unless you can show a legitimate reason for not purchasing (aka financing falling through). I think that would work just fine for orders. a non refundable deposit is considered illegal, at least here. And not to beat a dead horse, but I truly wonder if Ford had more profit in their vehicles if all this Addendum BS would be less frequent...then again...in NORMAL times it was negotiation galore, almost exactly the opposite of what the business is now...right now the buyers leverage and ability to "negotiate" is diddly squat...tides have turned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Deanh said: MSRP is basically what we are doing on Factory orders anyways....what of orders that fall through...still is and always has been an issue....and now Ford expects some sort of letter or proof of the reason the initial customer didn't take delivery... Having buyers register and order through the website makes it far more difficult for dealers to fake orders and Ford would know if a buyer cancels their order. If they cancel after it’s been built then that unit just goes to the dealer’s normal allocation so Ford wouldn’t care. A small deposit would also help weed out fake orders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Deanh said: a non refundable deposit is considered illegal, at least here. And not to beat a dead horse, but I truly wonder if Ford had more profit in their vehicles if all this Addendum BS would be less frequent...then again...in NORMAL times it was negotiation galore, almost exactly the opposite of what the business is now...right now the buyers leverage and ability to "negotiate" is diddly squat...tides have turned. There are a lot of forum sponsors that are selling for under invoice. With exception to gt500 and Bronco which are both at MSRP, everything is 3-4% under invoice with just a $198 doc fee. My brother in law got $1,000 under MSRP on an Explorer the other day negotiating with the 4% under invoice. He is paying about $1,000 more but doesn't have to fly out and drive it home from a 9 hour drive. Deals are to be had but you have to know where to look. Edited February 8, 2022 by blwnsmoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 4 hours ago, blwnsmoke said: There are a lot of forum sponsors that are selling for under invoice. With exception to gt500 and Bronco which are both at MSRP, everything is 3-4% under invoice with just a $198 doc fee. My brother in law got $1,000 under MSRP on an Explorer the other day negotiating with the 4% under invoice. He is paying about $1,000 more but doesn't have to fly out and drive it home from a 9 hour drive. Deals are to be had but you have to know where to look. they ( anything under MSRP ) are a rarity...I guess a LOT depends on where the dealers are located, but discounts are anything BUT the norm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 5 hours ago, akirby said: Having buyers register and order through the website makes it far more difficult for dealers to fake orders and Ford would know if a buyer cancels their order. If they cancel after it’s been built then that unit just goes to the dealer’s normal allocation so Ford wouldn’t care. A small deposit would also help weed out fake orders. actually semi accurate...but no, Ford doesn't know if a customer backs out of an order......cancel yes...but either way only before production and a vin number has been designated...once that's locked in the order cant be cancelled. If the consumer backs out after that fact Ford is asking for proof ..FROM the customer in the form of a letter or e-mail with a brief explanation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 32 minutes ago, Deanh said: actually semi accurate...but no, Ford doesn't know if a customer backs out of an order......cancel yes...but either way only before production and a vin number has been designated...once that's locked in the order cant be cancelled. If the consumer backs out after that fact Ford is asking for proof ..FROM the customer in the form of a letter or e-mail with a brief explanation... Especially with something like Bronco, they're trying to avoid dealers submitting fake orders from "customers" that are really the dealer trying to get some for themselves to sell (rather than an actual customer order). Are they asking for that for all orders, or just limited/reserved ones like Bronco/Mach E, Lightning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 On 2/8/2022 at 5:11 PM, rmc523 said: Especially with something like Bronco, they're trying to avoid dealers submitting fake orders from "customers" that are really the dealer trying to get some for themselves to sell (rather than an actual customer order). Are they asking for that for all orders, or just limited/reserved ones like Bronco/Mach E, Lightning? all...but theres more focus on units such as Hybrid F150s, Mavericks, Broncos etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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