edselford Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Very good discussion on ten speed automatics! Could this group of experts ever see a hybrid eVCT transmission in F150/250350? That is a rear wheel drive transmission with a single planetary, starter/generator and a large traction motor on the rear output shaft. Fords current F250 hybrid solution is very costly design. I am just wondering??? edselford usually, more speeds usually means more ratio spread which helps fuel economy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 7 hours ago, edselford said: Very good discussion on ten speed automatics! Could this group of experts ever see a hybrid eVCT transmission in F150/250350? That is a rear wheel drive transmission with a single planetary, starter/generator and a large traction motor on the rear output shaft. Fords current F250 hybrid solution is very costly design. No because CVT designs can't take torque loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: No because CVT designs can't take torque loads. Maybe not 400+ lb/ft or heavy towing loads but remember ecvts are geared and the Nautilus version was upgraded to handle a 2.0 ecoboost which should be close to 300 lb/ft (engine only). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 8 minutes ago, akirby said: Maybe not 400+ lb/ft or heavy towing loads but remember ecvts are geared and the Nautilus version was upgraded to handle a 2.0 ecoboost which should be close to 300 lb/ft (engine only). But all the engines (well Ecoboost at least) in the F-150 are 400 ft lbs plus of torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: But all the engines (well Ecoboost at least) in the F-150 are 400 ft lbs plus of torque. And they could use heavier gears but it’s probably not worth it. I was just pointing out that ecvts are totally different than regular belt driven cvts and can handle a lot more torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 20 hours ago, edselford said: Very good discussion on ten speed automatics! Could this group of experts ever see a hybrid eVCT transmission in F150/250350? That is a rear wheel drive transmission with a single planetary, starter/generator and a large traction motor on the rear output shaft. Fords current F250 hybrid solution is very costly design. I am just wondering??? edselford usually, more speeds usually means more ratio spread which helps fuel economy! Currently, Ford sells over 600,000 F Series trucks annually, the majority of those are straight ICE 10-speed autos, that gearbox design is mow heavily amortised so what seems expensive to you and I in adding an electric motor to deliver a hybrid transmission is actually a comparably low cost, minimal change to the 10R design. Having said that, if comes the day where every ICE Truck has to become a hybrid to survive, it may then be feasible to consider a simpler gearbox design with just one planet carrier and two electric motors and a small battery to deliver a continuously variable ratio transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Just now, jpd80 said: Currently, Ford sells over 600,000 F Series trucks annually, the majority of those are straight ICE 10-speed autos, that gearbox design is now heavily amortised so what seems expensive to you and I is actually cost effective to add an electric motor and small battery to deliver a hybrid transmission that’s actually low cost, minimal change to the 10R design. Keeping parts changes to a minimum on a high volume production line is key. Having said that, if comes the day where every ICE Truck has to become a hybrid to survive, it may then be feasible to consider a simpler gearbox design with just one planet carrier and two electric motors and a small battery to deliver a continuously variable ratio transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 16 hours ago, akirby said: Maybe not 400+ lb/ft or heavy towing loads but remember ecvts are geared and the Nautilus version was upgraded to handle a 2.0 ecoboost which should be close to 300 lb/ft (engine only). Not to mention I bet the upcoming AWD maverick hybrid still uses that same e-cvt, just with an additional electric motor powering the rear wheels or something. I bet that setup pushes 250-300 hp. I don't know where the torque/hp limit for Ford's e-cvts lies. But it definitely sounds like something that's overbuilt, and under stressed by design. I could see a beefier e-cvt working well for a ranger hybrid. But I don't see that setup working well for an F-150 or super duty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 14 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said: Not to mention I bet the upcoming AWD maverick hybrid still uses that same e-cvt, just with an additional electric motor powering the rear wheels or something. I bet that setup pushes 250-300 hp. I don't know where the torque/hp limit for Ford's e-cvts lies. But it definitely sounds like something that's overbuilt, and under stressed by design. I could see a beefier e-cvt working well for a ranger hybrid. But I don't see that setup working well for an F-150 or super duty. I wouldn't bet on that. The current Escape hybrid uses a driveshaft to power the rear wheels. But the Corsair uses the dedicated rear electric motor. I wish they'd just go to the rear electric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 37 minutes ago, 92merc said: I wouldn't bet on that. The current Escape hybrid uses a driveshaft to power the rear wheels. But the Corsair uses the dedicated rear electric motor. I wish they'd just go to the rear electric. Because Corsair is a plug in hybrid and there wasn’t enough room for the driveshaft with the extra batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 59 minutes ago, akirby said: Because Corsair is a plug in hybrid and there wasn’t enough room for the driveshaft with the extra batteries. Seeing as the maverick AWD hybrid will likely be a plug in, it sounds like they'll be going for a setup similar to what the Corsair has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 57 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said: Seeing as the maverick AWD hybrid will likely be a plug in, it sounds like they'll be going for a setup similar to what the Corsair has. Im not convinced they’ll be plug in hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: I don't know where the torque/hp limit for Ford's e-cvts lies. But it definitely sounds like something that's overbuilt, and under stressed by design. I could see a beefier e-cvt working well for a ranger hybrid. But I don't see that setup working well for an F-150 or super duty. Normal torque ratings for transmissions are double what the expected Ft lb load is going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 56 minutes ago, akirby said: Im not convinced they’ll be plug in hybrids. I didn't either. Until I read this: https://www.motortrend.com/news/ford-maverick-phev-awd-pickup-truck-spy-photos/ It's from 2022, so things could have changed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 20 hours ago, akirby said: Im not convinced they’ll be plug in hybrids. I suppose time will tell. I could have sworn I saw insiders claiming it was going to be a plug in, but maybe I'm mixing things up. It sounds like that's what a lot of potential buyers want. I personally prefer our mild hybrid setup and not having to charge. But I get why some people would want something that could go further on electric only range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 19 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Normal torque ratings for transmissions are double what the expected Ft lb load is going to be. So the limit for the e-cvt is around 300 lb ft and 400 hp, interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said: So the limit for the e-cvt is around 300 lb ft and 400 hp, interesting. From memory, the Ford Five Hundred (circa 2005) had a CVT transmission mated to the 3.0L V6 in the AWD models. I remember reading that it was a "high torque" CVT. It was expensive to produce, so was dropped in favor of a more conventional auto tranny at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 35 minutes ago, mackinaw said: From memory, the Ford Five Hundred (circa 2005) had a CVT transmission mated to the 3.0L V6 in the AWD models. I remember reading that it was a "high torque" CVT. It was expensive to produce, so was dropped in favor of a more conventional auto tranny at some point. Only the AWD had the CVT. They actually put a AISIN 6 speed in the FWD models. I had a FWD Montego and the 6 speed. Five Hundred/Freestyle/Montego AWD all had the same CVT. When they did the refresh to Taurus/Sable in 2008?, they went to an in-house 6 speed for both FWD and AWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 4 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: So the limit for the e-cvt is around 300 lb ft and 400 hp, interesting. Not necessarily. That only applies to transmissions with torque converters because the torque converter multiplies the engine torque before it hits the input shaft. Also the tranny rating is in newton-meters rather than lb/ft so the translation from tranny name to engine torque limits is not so straightforward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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