European Ford Explorer EV Launch Pushed Back By Six Months

[ice-capades]

European Ford Explorer EV Launch Pushed Back By Six Months

https://fordauthority.com/2023/08/european-ford-explorer-ev-launch-pushed-back-by-six-months/

 

 

The all-new Ford Explorer EV was revealed for the European market this past March, and it’s also the first of two Blue Oval crossovers slated to ride on Volkswagen’s MEB platform. Production of the new Ford Explorer EV was originally scheduled to begin at the Cologne Electric Vehicle Center in Germany – which just underwent a billion dollar revamp – in early 2024, with around 30,000 total units planned to be built next year. However, The Blue Oval recently announced that it was pushing back its plans to build 600k EVs next year in total, and now, that news has been accompanied by a delay for the Ford Explorer EV launch as well, according to Electrive.

 

According to this report, production of the Ford Explorer EV has been delayed by around six months, and it’s due to the installment of new global safety regulations related to the car’s powertrain. However, the report doesn’t specify which regulations have led to this delay, and there are no powertrain-related rules in the works in the EU at this time.

 

As far as actual timing goes, the report notes that the Explorer EV is expected to launch at some point next summer, though it doesn’t give a specific timeline, either. However, production of the new crossover was originally expected to begin this month following the plant’s summer pause, with a slow ramp up planned before sales began early next year. Regardless, workers at the Cologne plant were reportedly informed just yesterday that production has been pushed back several months.

 

Months after the debut of the Ford Explorer EV, we still don’t have specifics in regards to the crossover’s powertrain, including output and range estimates, though we do know that the new model will be available in two trim levels – Explorer and Explorer Premium – and that it will start out at around €45,000 ($48,513 USD).

Edited August 10, 2023 by ice-capades
Additional Content

[Oac98]

8 hours ago, ice-capades said:

European Ford Explorer EV Launch Pushed Back By Six Months

https://fordauthority.com/2023/08/european-ford-explorer-ev-launch-pushed-back-by-six-months/

 

 

The all-new Ford Explorer EV was revealed for the European market this past March, and it’s also the first of two Blue Oval crossovers slated to ride on Volkswagen’s MEB platform. Production of the new Ford Explorer EV was originally scheduled to begin at the Cologne Electric Vehicle Center in Germany – which just underwent a billion dollar revamp – in early 2024, with around 30,000 total units planned to be built next year. However, The Blue Oval recently announced that it was pushing back its plans to build 600k EVs next year in total, and now, that news has been accompanied by a delay for the Ford Explorer EV launch as well, according to Electrive.

 

According to this report, production of the Ford Explorer EV has been delayed by around six months, and it’s due to the installment of new global safety regulations related to the car’s powertrain. However, the report doesn’t specify which regulations have led to this delay, and there are no powertrain-related rules in the works in the EU at this time.

 

As far as actual timing goes, the report notes that the Explorer EV is expected to launch at some point next summer, though it doesn’t give a specific timeline, either. However, production of the new crossover was originally expected to begin this month following the plant’s summer pause, with a slow ramp up planned before sales began early next year. Regardless, workers at the Cologne plant were reportedly informed just yesterday that production has been pushed back several months.

 

Months after the debut of the Ford Explorer EV, we still don’t have specifics in regards to the crossover’s powertrain, including output and range estimates, though we do know that the new model will be available in two trim levels – Explorer and Explorer Premium – and that it will start out at around €45,000 ($48,513 USD).

I think this is a mess makes me wonder what else Ford will be pushing back. 

[.I.]

MEB is not working for VW. Won’t do it for Ford. That platform is a mess. And Ford is now in a very difficult position: nothing to offer to European customers. At least, not for middle class Europeans.
The current line up (excluding de trucks/vans) are:

Puma

Kuga (Escape)

Mustang Mach E (starting at 55000€)

Mustang (starting at 60000€ for the 4 cyl model)

North American Explorer (until the end of the year, at 70000€)

Bronco (available by the end of this year, at stratospherically price and few units)

 

That is all.  
 

??

 

[silvrsvt]

3 hours ago, .I. said:

MEB is not working for VW.

 

Huh?

https://electrek.co/2023/08/08/volkswagen-edges-past-tesla-tight-german-ev-race/

Seems like pricing is the major issue...the ID.3 had a huge increase in sales last month when the price was dropped in China. 

[.I.]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Huh?

https://electrek.co/2023/08/08/volkswagen-edges-past-tesla-tight-german-ev-race/

Seems like pricing is the major issue...the ID.3 had a huge increase in sales last month when the price was dropped in China. 

Of course. The price is a key element of the EV equation. Is VW gaining money on MEB in China, with the new prices?  That is the point. If you don’t get profits, is not working.  
 

??

[silvrsvt]

More info

 

https://jalopnik.com/ford-explorer-ev-launch-delay-battery-fire-safety-1850729509

[Harley Lover]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

More info

https://jalopnik.com/ford-explorer-ev-launch-delay-battery-fire-safety-1850729509

 

From the linked article: 

Quote

Ford CEO Jim Farley appeared to give the real reason behind the delay of the Explorer EV: fire countermeasures.

“...we weren’t happy with thermal propagation — — the countermeasures around fire — with the vehicle,” he added. “So we took a six-month delay to get the engineering right. That was the principal reason.”

 

Presuming that Ford were planning to use the VW as-is, does that imply that VW's design might be deficient from Ford's perspective? If so, what does that imply for the I.D.4?

[.I.]

7 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

From the linked article: 

 

Presuming that Ford were planning to use the VW as-is, does that imply that VW's design might be deficient from Ford's perspective? If so, what does that imply for the I.D.4?

MEB is a mess.  Ford made a mistake using it. Maybe the best for Ford is to wait until the GE2 EV platform will be ready. 

[jpd80]

Ford will be desperate to avoid any possibility of its EVs spontaneously combusting…..

 

The irony with MEB is that Ford’s production processes will probably make Explorer more profitable than ID4 by avoiding a lot of the unnecessary manual labor points that VW uses thanks to their agreements with unions.

Edited August 11, 2023 by jpd80

[Harley Lover]

15 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford will be desperate to avoid any possibility of its EVs spontaneously combusting…..

 

Another Hackett decision to go up in flames (pun intended).

[bzcat]

On 8/11/2023 at 1:48 PM, Harley Lover said:

 

From the linked article: 

 

Presuming that Ford were planning to use the VW as-is, does that imply that VW's design might be deficient from Ford's perspective? If so, what does that imply for the I.D.4?

 

Ford is using the MEB platform but doing its own powertrain (batteries and motors) and software. 

[jpd80]

11 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Ford is using the MEB platform but doing its own powertrain (batteries and motors) and software. 

Now that’s interesting because as we know, changing one think like batteries requires a change of controller. So at that point, changing the electric motors and drive may be a better match to the other components. Strangely, this could work totally to Ford’s advantage by cutting out some of the more expensive components of the MEB deal.

 

If VW’s batteries don’t comply to the new standard, then Ford May have VW over a barrel with the rest of the changes, especially given that it’s now so late in product delivery….
 

A little clarity on the decisions in the below article, not clear about motors and drive but probably a given if battery and controller are changed…

 

Quote

https://www.electrive.com/2023/08/11/ford-explorer-wont-use-vw-battery/
 

Until now, the plan was to  manufacture the Explorer based on Volkswagen’s MEB. Ford’s electric SUV was thus to receive VW’s batteries and electric drives. However, plans, at least regarding the battery, have evolved.

The Ford Explorer will come with a different battery that will comply with the “upcoming European standard for electric vehicles, UN Regulation 100.3/ ECE-R 100.3”, Ford spokesperson Ralph Caba told 24RHEIN. If the new battery standard will require constructional changes of the vehicle remains unclear. After all, in addition to the hardware, VW was also to supply the software for controlling the battery and electric drive.

However, it seems unclear whether and why the batteries supplied by VW should not comply with the ECE standard, writes the portal Golem. According to the German TÜV Süd, new registrations from 1 September would only be possible according to revision 3. That would mean: if the VW batteries do not comply with the new standard, no new VW EVs would be allowed to hit the road from September. It is thus unlikely.

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by jpd80

[Harley Lover]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Now that’s interesting because as we know, changing one think like batteries requires a change of controller. So at that point, changing the electric motors and drive may be a better match to the other components. Strangely, this could work totally to Ford’s advantage by cutting out some of the more expensive components of the MEB deal.

 

If VW’s batteries don’t comply to the new standard, then Ford May have VW over a barrel with the rest of the changes, especially given that it’s now so late in product delivery….
 

A little clarity on the decisions in the below article, not clear about motors and drive but probably a given if battery and controller are changed…

 

Perhaps VW planned to supply Ford with the 'pre UN Regulation 100.3/ ECE-R 100.3' parts, and Ford caught it in time to change course? As ludicrous at that sounds, I would not be surprised if VW pulled such a stunt on Ford, hoping it wouldn't get caught until too late. After all, VW have a track record of connivance, don't they?

[bzcat]

VW's MEB are grandfathered in because they were launched before the new reg took place. They will be required to comply when they are updated next time. It's not clear if Ford intended to launch the car before the reg took place to be grandfathered in as well but the fact is that it won't be given the delays.

 

So if Ford knew about this, they made the decision to source different battery on their own. We also know Ford is building this car themselves and retooled an entire plant to do it so they have vested interest to institute their own production methods and process whenever possible. However, I don't really know the rest... it is all conjecture.

 

But logically, if you are going to setup supply chain for your own battery (and Ford has done that in Europe: https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/en/news/2023/02/21/ford--lg-energy-solution--and-koc-holding-to-establish-a-joint-v.html ), then it's not that difficult to also source your own motors. And if you are building this as opposed to asking VW to supply you with a rebadge, there is no reason not to have your own complete supply chain. And given Farley's recent statement on that Ford will control all the software on its car going forward, and the reason for the delay - thermal management is one that is typically software driven, I deduced that Ford must be doing everything I mentioned (assembly, battery, motor, software) in house. That leaves just the basic platform itself from VW.

Edited August 15, 2023 by bzcat

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, bzcat said:

VW's MEB are grandfathered in because they were launched before the new reg took place. They will be required to comply when they are updated next time. It's not clear if Ford intended to launch the car before the reg took place to be grandfathered in as well but the fact is that it won't be given the delays.

 

So if Ford knew about this, they made the decision to source different battery on their own. We also know Ford is building this car themselves and retooled an entire plant to do it so they have vested interest to institute their own production methods and process whenever possible. However, I don't really know the rest... it is all conjecture.

 

But logically, if you are going to setup supply chain for your own battery (and Ford has done that in Europe: https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/en/news/2023/02/21/ford--lg-energy-solution--and-koc-holding-to-establish-a-joint-v.html ), then it's not that difficult to also source your own motors. And if you are building this as opposed to asking VW to supply you with a rebadge, there is no reason not to have your own complete supply chain. And given Farley's recent statement on that Ford will control all the software on its car going forward, and the reason for the delay - thermal management is one that is typically software driven, I deduced that Ford must be doing everything I mentioned (assembly, battery, motor, software) in house. That leaves just the basic platform itself from VW.

OK, just imagine for a moment, the original contract with VW regarding supply of components for the MEB based Fords (Ford developed top hat). Now the battery and control system is being replaced by Ford sourced units, it’s only a short step to replace motors and drive units…..how much of that original supply deal is now in the trash bin?
 

With all those added costs and design changes, will the Explorer become the next Ford BEV failure because the price and developments are now just too high to sustain? It might be in Ford’s best interest to limit actual sales to more profitable, expensive high series versions and go back to the drawing board on more affordable alternatives.

 

I look at this deal and smile, it’s like fate took hold, all the reasons that Hackett used to justify using VW based BEVs has more or less evaporated, be that cost or shear practicality of using own design that took much longer to develop….

Edited August 15, 2023 by jpd80

[bzcat]

After Farley took over, he quickly scaled back the MEB deal. First he cancelled the US North America production, and then he limited it to the two models at Cologne. The volume commitment was reduced to 1.2 million units (I recall it was 5 million units before in both US and Europe). But anyway, Farley understood that it was foolish to give up that much control of your product decision to your competitor. It's ok as a tactical short term move but it never made any sense as a long term strategic move, unless you wanted to eventually exit the car making business. 

 

BTW, the other side of the VW-Ford deal involving Ford making Amarok and Transporter for VW is quite favorable for Ford. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by bzcat

[jpd80]

8 hours ago, bzcat said:

After Farley took over, he quickly scaled back the MEB deal. First he cancelled the US North America production, and then he limited it to the two models at Cologne. The volume commitment was reduced to 1.2 million units (I recall it was 5 million units before in both US and Europe). But anyway, Farley understood that it was foolish to give up that much control of your product decision to your competitor. It's ok as a tactical short term move but it never made any sense as a long term strategic move, unless you wanted to eventually exit the car making business. 

 

BTW, the other side of the VW-Ford deal involving Ford making Amarok and Transporter for VW is quite favorable for Ford. 

OK, I’ve changes my view on this,
Whatever Ford is doing in the VW alliance, it’s clear that Ford has found a way to get its hands on two affordable BEVs but then discovered loopholes that allow it to avoid buying the more expensive components of MEB while substituting its own sourced parts. I think that’s genius if it means Ford has an affordable pair of “get through” place holders. Equally, VW are feeling dudded on the Amorok deal thinking it would get access to North America……that was a big no way Jose from Ford management but strangely enough, that might have been a master stroke for Ford had it not been so hamstrung with T6 parts supply problems….

Edited August 18, 2023 by jpd80

[GearheadGrrrl]

BTW, VW's research company is trolling social media trying to catch full size pickup owners opinions... Maybe they're gonna do a pickup off the Scout EV?

[jpd80]

On 8/19/2023 at 3:34 AM, GearheadGrrrl said:

BTW, VW's research company is trolling social media trying to catch full size pickup owners opinions... Maybe they're gonna do a pickup off the Scout EV?

Sounds logical but really, pickup owner are pretty set in their way with the brands they like.

 

[bzcat]

On 8/18/2023 at 10:34 AM, GearheadGrrrl said:

BTW, VW's research company is trolling social media trying to catch full size pickup owners opinions... Maybe they're gonna do a pickup off the Scout EV?

 

Scout EV pickup and SUV are both already confirmed by VW. It will probably be very similar to the Rivian in size... a bit bigger than midsize and meaningfully smaller than fullsize.