Bluecon Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 "The Edge must lure the public back to the Blue Oval fold. Assuming it does, that’s one segment, one basket. Mark “My Title is Huge†Fields told the press on Monday that The Blue Oval plans to ride out the current vehicle lineup until 2008. Product led turnaround indeed! With nothing new in the pipeline, with its history of model neglect, any FoMoCo interest generated by the cross-border crossover is bound to cool, and quick. And then… nothing much. Don’t take my word for it. After spending “a lot of time looking at the where the market is going,†Marky Mark Fields publicly declared that “on a scale of 1-10, the revisions to the 2007-08 product program rate a 2.†In other words, the market may have changed, but those ships have sailed. As for the products arriving at the end of the decade, Fields rates the amount of revision as “something like a 6 or 7.†" http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2501 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 "With nothing new in the pipeline" That you know about. Calling Fields "Marky" — how clever. Well, so far, Marky and his new boss seem to be calling it like it is, especially compared to D-C and their acres of unsold product and acres of Sebrings to come. Acres of lovely Sebrings. The lack of "shine" from senior Ford execs is a refreshing change. "any FoMoCo interest generated by the cross-border crossover is bound to cool, and quick. And then… nothing much" The 2K8 product is 6 months away, with the launch of the Focus/Escape. Lasting success is not achieved overnight, but 2K9/10 brings more new product. It's all been listed here before. Nothing much? You're entitled to your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g48150 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 The 2K8 product is 6 months away, with the launch of the Focus/Escape. Lasting success is not achieved overnight, but 2K9/10 brings more new product. It's all been listed here before. Nothing much? You're entitled to your opinion. The point of the article is to point out that profitability by 2K9 is as much a goal as selling new vehicles. Ostrich much? You're entitled to your opinion. The Edge is going to steal customers from where? The Explorer, Expedition, and Escape. Conquest customers are long gone at this point, 75% of people won't even consider a new Ford, even if it does get good reviews. Don't get me wrong, this is a step in the right direction, but Ford needs fresh blood not only in their management and HR ranks, but in the cars as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 75% of people won't even consider a new Ford, even if it does get good reviews. Do you know how many people hate the Oakland Raiders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks will fly Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Do you know how many people hate the Oakland Raiders? Al Davis still fills the stands with the freaks in the black hole, he still is profitable sorry wrong comparision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 sorry wrong comparision. No, not really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks will fly Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 (edited) They still think cutting the plants to the core will buy them the time to keep it foating until '09, yet on the employee fourm someone says that the plant manager says it may not be enough. Once again the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, and just lie to the workers they are stupid enough to buy it. One problem with that is the employees are not stupid and see trouble ahead. No, not really. Explain. We are in bis to make money where they are handed money from tv. Edited October 21, 2006 by sparks will fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Explain. I didn't think I'd have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks will fly Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I didn't think I'd have to. I might hate the Raiders but I watch them at least 2 times a year, when the Chiefs play them. Either way the make money, when these buyouts are done most ex-employees may never look at Ford again, that will help market share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 (edited) g48150, do you even realize that you are contradicting yourself??? You continuously say that Ford needs product. Then, out of the other side of your mouth, you say that it doesn't matter how good new Ford product is............. that noone will buy it anyway. So, in other words, you are saying that it is completely hopeless, so why should they even bother. You do realize that the Fusion has a conquest rate of almost 40%, right??? This means that it came from someone else, besides Ford. These are people who are giving Ford a chance. Frankly, I think there are more of them than you think. Many people want to see the home team win (except those on the right and left coast). They left Ford because they did not offer what they wanted. If they see a good product, many are actually willing to give them a chance. At least getting them into the showroom, is a good start. Of course, I try to look at things positively. Being a negatoid can truly make a person miserable. Edited October 21, 2006 by Extreme4x4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 (edited) I might hate the Raiders but I watch them at least 2 times a year, when the Chiefs play them. Either way the make money, when these buyouts are done most ex-employees may never look at Ford again, that will help market share. Ford is not selling toilet paper, they aren't selling breakfast cereal, hamburgers, or even jeans. They are selling durable goods that are purchased infrequently by a very small percentage of the overall population. Ford, this year, will sell a car to every 100th person in America, give or take. In that 1) Ford sells a very small quanity of product (vs. the population at large), and 2) that even among that segment that purchases its product, it is in the decided minority (and has been for 80 years), the situation from a product appeal perspective is closer to the Oakland Raiders than one might first suspect. A substantial number of Americans like football enough to watch it on TV and buy merchandise that supports their favorite team. Among those Americans that like football, among the 32 teams, the Oakland Raiders are without question one of the more popular teams. However, it cannot be said that a majority of football fans like the Raiders, or even that a majority of Americans like the Raiders. It is sufficient that a profitable percentage of Americans like the Raiders enough to spend money in a way that benefits them. Now, for Ford, the question of having a profitable market share is, at present, heavily dependent on capacity. Ford has at least a million units of capacity it does not need. To get rid of that capacity does indeed mean burning some bridges in terms of employee goodwill. However, those 30,000 people have not been able to persuade enough of their fellow citizens to purchase the Ford products they build, therefore it can be argued that their ability to influence purchases is somewhat limited. It does not outweigh the efficiencies gained from buying them out. Ford has made some serious product mistakes over the last decade, the problem that has resulted is overcapacity. It is not fair that the mistakes of Ford's PD & executives should be visited on labor. However, there is no other solution that can be reasonably attained. Edited October 21, 2006 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Ford will announce earnings Mon AM. I imagine they will write off every loss they can find, and just get it over with. The market may knock the stock down some. I've been buying this stock every time it goes under $7.50. I expect to get $25-30 for it in 5-6 years. If Ford can survive an end of business cycle slow down or recession in a couple years, it can happen. We'll see. I'm willing to take the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted October 21, 2006 Author Share Posted October 21, 2006 (edited) Do you know how many people hate the Oakland Raiders? A better comparisn would be with the Lions. Everything Bill Ford jr. touches goes down the tubes. He should start acting like the silver spoon billionaire he is and let people that know what they are doing run things. No need for him to work. He isn't no Henry the second. Although with NFL football teams they have a monopoly on the fans in their city. If you live in Oakland or Detroit you have little choice but to support the local team. Ford will announce earnings Mon AM. I imagine they will write off every loss they can find, and just get it over with. The market may knock the stock down some. I've been buying this stock every time it goes under $7.50. I expect to get $25-30 for it in 5-6 years. If Ford can survive an end of business cycle slow down or recession in a couple years, it can happen. We'll see. I'm willing to take the risk. I agree about the stock. It would be much higher now if the Ford family did not have so much control with such a small ownwership position. Around 1990 wasn't it around a dollar? Al Davis still fills the stands with the freaks in the black hole, he still is profitable sorry wrong comparision. Are you trying to say Ford buyers are like freaks in the black hole? Edited October 21, 2006 by Bluecon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman100 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I'm not a hugh fan of Ford Motor Company, but I have to be fair - the website Thetruthaboutcars.com is so anti-American automaker that I consider their opinions pretty much invalid. That being said, I do know that there are people who just won't buy a Ford no matter what - and they are the ones Ford are trying to get as customers, and in the meantime killing/neglecting the products guys like myself and my wife are interested in buying next year: Try buying a minivan with slding doors - well, Ford won't sell one after this year. A large full size RWD sedan? Ford had/has the best on the market, and they act embarrassed they sell it. A nice small SUV? - Escape is very long in the tooth, and V-6 gas mileage sucks due to an old powertrain. A small wagon? - not only old design, but will be gone after 2007. Also, Ford is about the most politically correct automaker selling in the United States - that is an issue for me as well. I post over at that website the every once in a while, but the people over there are pretty closed minded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 The Edge is going to steal customers from where? The Explorer, Expedition, and Escape. Conquest customers are long gone at this point, 75% of people won't even consider a new Ford, even if it does get good reviews.How many stories about gaining conquest customers can one guy ignore? This is either fascinating or really tragic.... A better comparisn would be with the Lions. Everything Bill Ford jr. touches goes down the tubes. He should start acting like the silver spoon billionaire he is and let people that know what they are doing run things. No need for him to work. He isn't no Henry the second. Although with NFL football teams they have a monopoly on the fans in their city. If you live in Oakland or Detroit you have little choice but to support the local team. It gets better...both Detnews and CC/SI have run recent blurbs about how Bill Ford Sr. is the guy keeping Millen and Co. around...Bill Jr. disagrees, but is outranked. Again, your examples are smitten by...reality, available online. Just give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Ford will announce earnings Mon AM. I imagine they will write off every loss they can find, and just get it over with. Unless I'm mistaken, Ford can't take the big hits until Q4. They won't know their buyout figures until Dec., and the 21% production cuts hit then too. Q4 is also when Atlanta closes (next week). I suppose Ford could have set aside the funds to pay for the buyouts in August/September, but it doesn't seem the wisest course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 It may even take a couple more quarters to get it all out. But it takes a while to build a position. I like to invest in out of favor companies with substantial assets when their back is against the wall. Just maybe they can now make the tough decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 From the Department of Statistics Pulled from One's Ass: Conquest customers are long gone at this point, 75% of people won't even consider a new Ford, even if it does get good reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 All this time passes while Ford tries to get their act together. Meanwhile, G.M.'s recovery picks up speed. Very scary, because G.M. is Ford's closest competitor. Could a Ford turnaround get sunk by a G.M. recovery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Could a Ford turnaround get sunk by a G.M. recovery? Nope. Ford has to start having a turn around first. So far, zippo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 All this time passes while Ford tries to get their act together. Meanwhile, G.M.'s recovery picks up speed. Very scary, because G.M. is Ford's closest competitor. Could a Ford turnaround get sunk by a G.M. recovery? I don't think so. I am not convinced that GM's recovery is that far advanced at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 From the Department of Statistics Pulled from One's Ass: Hey, sometimes you find valuable stuff in the most unexpected places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Meanwhile, G.M.'s recovery picks up speed. I've yet to see the evidence of that. GM's biggest selling vehicles remain so-so. Epsilon is, charitably, a mixed bag, the Ws ancient, and the new GMT900 trucks do not raise the bar at all (at least Toyota, it is rumored, will set a new standard for towing). The upcoming Lambdas are a mixed bag, offering more space than the Freestyle & Pacifica, but along with that a huge weight penalty, and apparently a top drawer price tag. GM's definite hits are the Kappa cars, which are doing nothing for the rest of the Saturn or Pontiac lineup, and of themselves contribute next to nothing to GM's bottom line. Cadillac's Sigma platform has yielded one hit, the CTS, and a pair of near misses: the SRX and STS--neither of which have been as competitive in their segments as the CTS is in its. So, when I look at GM, I don't see much reason to believe that they're done cutting costs, because I don't see much evidence that they can sustain their current market share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotzenjunge Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 (edited) Christ, GM and Ford and Chrysler are fucked if you want to keep thinking in terms of the market share of our parents' America. In 2006, these companies are going to have to adjust to smaller market share before any sort of substantial turnaround is considered. I feel Ford is making the best headway in this direction, and doing the best they can in the meantime. The real fun stuff won't be until 2009, 2010, assuming that they can survive to see those days in the same FoMoCo form we know today. GM is the closest to being completely screwed, since Chrysler at least has Mercedes there to try and help it out. GM's problems are seemingly intractable. I'd say, of the "big three," Ford has the best chance of maintaining market share and eventually regaining it. Chrysler desperately needs to get their inventory game back on lock and GM is... well, just about anything that could go wrong with a modern automobile manufacturer. At the same time, they've all made their beds and no excuses should be made for inferior products when they come up for review. Really, keeping in mind that they've created their own situation, what prevents Detroit from making great products that people want to buy? Edited October 22, 2006 by Kotzenjunge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I was contacted by the owner of about cars after I posted an nasty message about one of his writers error filled review on the Ford Edge (fixed afterwards) and he asked me it write for him. It seems like people just have an ax to grind on the website and being so negative is way to draw in people. I think many people just have such negative connotations about American built cars (justified or not) that they cannot even write a balanced review Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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