The packaging of modern Toyotas is trash

[DeluxeStang]

I always assumed people were exaggerating, but we rented a 4 runner today. My God, the seating position is abysmal. You have to climb up into it, but the seats feel lower than something like our explorer or maverick. The dashboard is 3 time zones away from the passenger, but the roof is practically touching my head, and I'm only 5'11. 

 

The think probably drinks gas like an expedition, yet it has literally zero open cargo capacity with the third row up, the back of the third row is practically touching the glass. During our short drive thus far, the thing was moaning and buzzing, staggering all over the road like the town drunk. 

 

Why do people buy these? They're terrible.Don't say reliability, a bronco is also reliable, and seems like a much better all around truck. 

[akirby]

Brand loyalty.  Same for Tacoma which has similar issues.

[tbone]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

Brand loyalty.  Same for Tacoma which has similar issues.

I think this sums it up. Pretty much the same reason most of the people on these forums buy Fords.   However, to your point Deluxestang, the Forerunners and Tacomas I’ve been in felt to me like you were sitting on the floor, which is not a driving position I care for.  

[DeluxeStang]

19 hours ago, tbone said:

 Forerunners and Tacomas I’ve been in felt to me like you were sitting on the floor, which is not a driving position I care for.  

The entire thing feels like a contradiction. You're climbing up into this taller vehicle, but you have to tilt at a 45 degree angle to avoid hitting your head. It feels like you're getting into a lifted Camaro, high off the ground, but no headroom, I've never experienced another modern SUV/truck like this. 

 

One of the people sitting in the third row was having to sit at an angle, with their head cocked to the side, also touching the roof. I genuinely couldn't believe how bad and uncomfortable this thing was. I'll say this, it definitely made me appreciate and realize just how good our maverick hybrid and explorer were. Those things drive like luxury cars by comparison. 

 

22 hours ago, akirby said:

Brand loyalty.  Same for Tacoma which has similar issues.

It's really frustrating, at least to me personally, to see sub par vehicles dominating their segments, purely because they can coast on their reputation for what they used to be. For all of their flaws, it seems like the teams who work on Fords, Ford trucks in particular, are putting actual effort in. They have class leading tech, power, and capability, and are generally pretty reliable across the board it would seem. You look at Ford trucks, and you understand why most of their trucks are in high demand. 

 

Then you see brands like Toyota who, pardon my crassness, seem to half-ass a lot of their products, and they just get away with it because their target audience is still living in 1982. I literally knew someone who had one of the newer Tundras, the ones with that problematic v6, tell me my explorer with the virtually indestructible 3.5 duratec was gonna be an unreliable car long term simply because it was a Ford. These people aren't living in reality. 

Edited July 5 by DeluxeStang

[tbone]

4 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

The entire thing feels like a contradiction. You're climbing up into this taller vehicle, but you have to tilt at a 45 degree angle to avoid hitting your head. It feels like you're getting into a lifted Camaro, high off the ground, but no headroom, I've never experienced another modern SUV/truck like this. 

 

One of the people sitting in the third row was having to sit at an angle, with their head cocked to the side, also touching the roof. I genuinely couldn't believe how bad and uncomfortable this thing was. I'll say this, it definitely made me appreciate and realize just how good our maverick hybrid and explorer were. Those things drive like luxury cars by comparison. 

 

It's really frustrating, at least to me personally, to see sub par vehicles dominating their segments, purely because they can coast on their reputation for what they used to be. For all of their flaws, it seems like the teams who work on Fords, Ford trucks in particular, are putting actual effort in. They have class leading tech, power, and capability, and are generally pretty reliable across the board it would seem. You look at Ford trucks, and you understand why most of their trucks are in high demand. 

 

Then you see brands like Toyota who, pardon my crassness, seem to half-ass a lot of their products, and they just get away with it because their target audience is still living in 1982. I literally knew someone who had one of the newer Tundras, the ones with that problematic v6, tell me my explorer with the virtually indestructible 3.5 duratec was gonna be an unreliable car long term simply because it was a Ford. These people aren't living in reality. 

Every manufacturer is going to have some duds every now and then, but I’ve been in a number of 3.5 EBs with 175k plus and my nephews 5.0 F150 has 179k on it.  The people around me must just be lucky that their Fords were reliable, right. 

[sullynd]

The thing is ancient, and will soon be replaced by two vehicles that will be more modern, while maintaining their off-road chops and body on frame construction. 
 

My mom is on, I think, her fourth GX in a row. It’s the Lexus version of the 4Runner and has similar issues to what you describe. At 6’4” I barely fit. She loves it though, and really there is not much else to consider in place of it. She occasionally considers the competition from MB and BMW, but each has their own quirks. 

[rmc523]

On 7/3/2024 at 6:29 PM, DeluxeStang said:

I always assumed people were exaggerating, but we rented a 4 runner today. My God, the seating position is abysmal. You have to climb up into it, but the seats feel lower than something like our explorer or maverick. The dashboard is 3 time zones away from the passenger, but the roof is practically touching my head, and I'm only 5'11. 

 

The think probably drinks gas like an expedition, yet it has literally zero open cargo capacity with the third row up, the back of the third row is practically touching the glass. During our short drive thus far, the thing was moaning and buzzing, staggering all over the road like the town drunk. 

 

Why do people buy these? They're terrible.Don't say reliability, a bronco is also reliable, and seems like a much better all around truck. 

 

Is this the brand new 4-Runner, or the one that dates back to 2006?

[The Handler]

I haven't sat in a 4Runner since I was a kid. I'm kind of interested in the new one. I'm 6'4" so I hope I fit comfortably!

[morgan20]

On 7/3/2024 at 6:29 PM, DeluxeStang said:

Don't say reliability

 

Why not? Toyota makes some the most reliable SUVs out there

 

Cars Most Likely to Last 250,000+ Miles – iSeeCars.com Study
Rank	Model	% Chance of Lasting 250,000+ Miles	Compared to Average
1	Ford F-350 Super Duty	49.1%	4.2x
2	Toyota Land Cruiser	47.9%	4.1x
3	Toyota Tundra	47.9%	4.1x
4	Toyota Sequoia	47.1%	4.0x
5	Ford F-250 Super Duty	43.6%	3.7x
6	Honda Pilot	42.7%	3.6x
7	Toyota Tacoma	41.7%	3.5x
8	GMC Sierra 2500HD	41.3%	3.5x
9	Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD	41.2%	3.5x
10	Toyota 4Runner	41.0%	3.5x
11	Toyota Avalon	33.1%	2.8x
12	Chevrolet Silverado 1500	31.0%	2.6x
13	Acura MDX	29.2%	2.5x
14	Honda Element	27.8%	2.4x
15	Honda CR-V	27.5%	2.3x
16	Honda Accord	27.1%	2.3x
17	Chevrolet Avalanche	26.7%	2.3x
18	Ram 2500	26.3%	2.2x
19	Ram 3500	24.3%	2.1x
20	Toyota Sienna	23.3%	2.0x
21	Subaru Outback	22.3%	1.9x
22	GMC Yukon XL	21.3%	1.8x
23	Toyota Camry	20.4%	1.7x
Overall Average		11.8%	–

[rmc523]

16 hours ago, morgan20 said:

 

Why not? Toyota makes some the most reliable SUVs out there

 

Cars Most Likely to Last 250,000+ Miles – iSeeCars.com Study
Rank	Model	% Chance of Lasting 250,000+ Miles	Compared to Average
1	Ford F-350 Super Duty	49.1%	4.2x
2	Toyota Land Cruiser	47.9%	4.1x
3	Toyota Tundra	47.9%	4.1x
4	Toyota Sequoia	47.1%	4.0x
5	Ford F-250 Super Duty	43.6%	3.7x
6	Honda Pilot	42.7%	3.6x
7	Toyota Tacoma	41.7%	3.5x
8	GMC Sierra 2500HD	41.3%	3.5x
9	Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD	41.2%	3.5x
10	Toyota 4Runner	41.0%	3.5x
11	Toyota Avalon	33.1%	2.8x
12	Chevrolet Silverado 1500	31.0%	2.6x
13	Acura MDX	29.2%	2.5x
14	Honda Element	27.8%	2.4x
15	Honda CR-V	27.5%	2.3x
16	Honda Accord	27.1%	2.3x
17	Chevrolet Avalanche	26.7%	2.3x
18	Ram 2500	26.3%	2.2x
19	Ram 3500	24.3%	2.1x
20	Toyota Sienna	23.3%	2.0x
21	Subaru Outback	22.3%	1.9x
22	GMC Yukon XL	21.3%	1.8x
23	Toyota Camry	20.4%	1.7x
Overall Average		11.8%	–

 

I'd argue that Land Cruiser, Tundra, Sequoia, and 4Runner are on there largely because they didn't give a full redesign from around 2007 until what, 2022.  I'd hope something you've built largely unchanged for 15 years would be reliable.

[Andrew L]

I've gotten a lot of ads on Facebook recently about these front seat adjustors for Toyota trucks and SUVs that rase up the seat so it's in a more comfortable position.  I guess the manual seats in them don't have a raise and lower adjustment?  I found it very odd but all the comments were saying it was super popular for 4runner and Tacoma folks.  If it's so popular why hasn't Toyota addressed that issue?  Also what ever happened to having the ability to raise and lower your seat manually?   I think my mom's 92 Subaru Legacy had a lever that popped out and you would rotate it to move it up and down.