Ford wants ST and RS badges to carry over to performance EVs.

[DeluxeStang]

https://insideevs.com/news/756824/ford-st-rs-ev-versions/

 

They're talking about the mach-e, and especially the electric puma here, but this, coupled with the article from another prominent Ford employee not too long ago saying they can definitely see the return of lower, non crossover EVs in the future Ford lineup, it's encouraging. It seems like Ford has finally found its niche within the electric car market. 

 

 

[jpd80]

Because clearly Ford can’t sell these new BEVs  without a catchy name attached…

[rmc523]

12 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

https://insideevs.com/news/756824/ford-st-rs-ev-versions/

 

They're talking about the mach-e, and especially the electric puma here, but this, coupled with the article from another prominent Ford employee not too long ago saying they can definitely see the return of lower, non crossover EVs in the future Ford lineup, it's encouraging. It seems like Ford has finally found its niche within the electric car market. 

 

 

 

Mach E already has GT, so slapping ST/RS doesn't make sense, IMO.

 

On other products, sure, why not?

[DeluxeStang]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Because clearly Ford can’t sell these new BEVs  without a catchy name attached…

If they can make some sporty EVs worthy of the name I'm ok with it. 

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

If they can make some sporty EVs worthy of the name I'm ok with it. 

This is Ford Europe genius who has already burned through heritage names like Explorer and Capri.

the first recipient of ST model  will most likely be Puma

[DeluxeStang]

30 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

This is Ford Europe genius who has already burned through heritage names like Explorer and Capri.

the first recipient of ST model  will most likely be Puma

But the Capri and explorer were arguably limited by using VW's EV platform. Ford's own ground up EVs seem to be far more compelling. Like the mach-e, especially as it's been improved over the years, is a great driving, great looking, great performing EV. 

 

When it's Ford's platform, things are generally pretty good, and actually engaging to drive. From the sound of things, Ford's only gonna be relying on their platforms moving forward. 

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

But the Capri and explorer were arguably limited by using VW's EV platform. Ford's own ground up EVs seem to be far more compelling. Like the mach-e, especially as it's been improved over the years, is a great driving, great looking, great performing EV. 

 

When it's Ford's platform, things are generally pretty good, and actually engaging to drive. From the sound of things, Ford's only gonna be relying on their platforms moving forward. 

Ford already has a Mach E GT, how’s that model moving the needle in regards image and sales?

The bigger issue Ford has is getting people interested in BEVs, would ST and RS do that?

So who’s calling for this?

The article is based on what the the Ford Euro chief thinks is needed for their future electric vehicles,

he wants a Puma ST in the BEV version as he thinks that will attract more sales and that might work

but let’s remain planted why they want these ST and RS models. I would think that Europe is definitely 

looking at Explorer BEV ST and Capri BEV ST.

 

I don’t  think that any of this ST or RS model talk  is intended for a North American vehicles at this point…

[fordmantpw]

29 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Ford already has a Mach E GT, how’s that model moving the needle in regards image and sales?

The bigger issue Ford has is getting people interested in BEVs, would ST and RS do that?

 

FWIW, if the Mach-E didn't have the GT, my wife would likely still be driving her Escape instead of the Mach-E.

[jpd80]

31 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

FWIW, if the Mach-E didn't have the GT, my wife would likely still be driving her Escape instead of the Mach-E.

Edit for clarity…
That’s great to hear but the point I was making is that adding another sports model like RS/ST

when the Mach E has the GT doesn't suddenly bring in loads more BEV sales which is what

I suspect  Ford Euro boss wants with ST and RS on Euro models.

Edited April 17 by jpd80

[jpd80]

Theres been a lot of wrong thinking coming out of Ford Europe that’s put them in a big hole.

So no, I wouldn’t consider this an overly smart plan or  anything more than another trim level.

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford already has a Mach E GT, how’s that model moving the needle in regards image and sales?

The bigger issue Ford has is getting people interested in BEVs, would ST and RS do that?

So who’s calling for this?

The article is based on what the the Ford Euro chief thinks is needed for their future electric vehicles,

he wants a Puma ST in the BEV version as he thinks that will attract more sales and that might work

but let’s remain planted why they want these ST and RS models. I would think that Europe is definitely 

looking at Explorer BEV ST and Capri BEV ST.

 

I don’t  think that any of this ST or RS model talk  is intended for a North American vehicles at this point…

I think Ford botched the execution with the VW based Capri, and to a lesser extent, the explorer, but the fundamental idea of trying to create more expressive, aspirational EVs itself is a good one. The mach-e is one of the best selling EVs that isn't a Tesla because it stands out from the crowd. If they apply the ST and RS badges to future, entirely Ford EVs, and actually give them better styling and driving dynamics than the competition, that can truly differentiate Ford from it's rivals. 

 

These basic bitch 10k Chinese EVs are gonna dominate the super affordable EV market, not much Ford can do about that. 100 grand EVs with 1,000 hp are also a dime a dozen, and that's such a small market that it's not really worth the investment unless you want to do a high end halo product. 

 

But aspirational, fun, charismatic EVs 25-35 grand with 300 miles of range, and maybe 250-400 hp, that's a market in the EV world that's pretty underserved right now. 

 

I can totally see a market for EVs that are a lot nicer than some 15 grand Chinese shoebox, but a lot more obtainable than a 100k model s. Something that's fun and engaging to drive that doesn't need a 1,000 hp and a mid 2 second 0-60. 

 

If Ford botches the development of these additional EVs, yeah, it's not gonna be great. But they got their ass kicked with Capri. Maybe that experience makes them step back, and reevaluate how to do future nameplates justice instead of making more half assed nostalgia grabs. Ford of Europe fucked up with this new Capri, but Ford of Europe throughout the ages has also given us some of the best historical Ford's ever. 

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

I think Ford botched the execution with the VW based Capri, and to a lesser extent, the explorer, but the fundamental idea of trying to create more expressive, aspirational EVs itself is a good one. The mach-e is one of the best selling EVs that isn't a Tesla because it stands out from the crowd. If they apply the ST and RS badges to future, entirely Ford EVs, and actually give them better styling and driving dynamics than the competition, that can truly differentiate Ford from it's rivals. 

 

These basic bitch 10k Chinese EVs are gonna dominate the super affordable EV market, not much Ford can do about that. 100 grand EVs with 1,000 hp are also a dime a dozen, and that's such a small market that it's not really worth the investment unless you want to do a high end halo product. 

 

But aspirational, fun, charismatic EVs 25-35 grand with 300 miles of range, and maybe 250-400 hp, that's a market in the EV world that's pretty underserved right now. 

 

I can totally see a market for EVs that are a lot nicer than some 15 grand Chinese shoebox, but a lot more obtainable than a 100k model s. Something that's fun and engaging to drive that doesn't need a 1,000 hp and a mid 2 second 0-60. 

 

If Ford botches the development of these additional EVs, yeah, it's not gonna be great. But they got their ass kicked with Capri. Maybe that experience makes them step back, and reevaluate how to do future nameplates justice instead of making more half assed nostalgia grabs. Ford of Europe fucked up with this new Capri, but Ford of Europe throughout the ages has also given us some of the best historical Ford's ever. 

The point being that Ford went to VW as a way of getting those affordable BEVs that it simply couldn’t do itself.

MEBs turned out to be both expensive to make and uninteresting blobs than Ford knows are boring to buyers.

There is nothing aspirational in these vehicles and now Ford wants to add ST or RS to them to help push sales…

That I believe is the main thrust of the linked article, nothing to do with the coming CE1s.

Edited April 18 by jpd80

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The point being that Ford went to VW as a way of getting those affordable BEVs that it simply couldn’t do itself.

MEBs turned out to be both expensive to make and uninteresting blobs than Ford knows are boring to buyers.

There is nothing aspirational in these vehicles and now Ford wants to add ST or RS to them to help push sales…

That I believe is the main thrust of the linked article, nothing to do with the coming CE1s.

So we know as a result of both your comments, and those of others that CE1 is gonna be pretty limited at first, a truck, utility, and maybe a van. But do you believe if the platform turns out to be a smashing success that they'll use it to spin off off models, maybe things that are more enthusiast oriented over time? 

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

So we know as a result of both your comments, and those of others that CE1 is gonna be pretty limited at first, a truck, utility, and maybe a van. But do you believe if the platform turns out to be a smashing success that they'll use it to spin off off models, maybe things that are more enthusiast oriented over time? 

Work backwards from what we know.

Europe is stuck with MEB for one product cycle only and will then want replacements for Explorer and Capri.

Europe will also want a BEV Transit Connect Van and passenger version,  plus a BEV pickup to take some load

off T6 Ranger. On top of that, Europe also supplies vehicles to loads of other markets. Huge potential.

 

Even though CE1 appears limited with the three vehicles originally mentioned, there is a lot of potential there

for what I’d call aggressive regionalisation……if you follow that thinking, Europe and North American vehicles

could have a lot of differentiation style wise  so there’s a lot to be positive about.

[rmc523]

16 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Edit for clarity…
That’s great to hear but the point I was making is that adding another sports model like RS/ST

when the Mach E has the GT doesn't suddenly bring in loads more BEV sales which is what

I suspect  Ford Euro boss wants with ST and RS on Euro models.

 

It could help boost sales of what's already there Europe-wise.  But sure, it's not going to make sales double overnight.

 

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Work backwards from what we know.

Europe is stuck with MEB for one product cycle only and will then want replacements for Explorer and Capri.

Europe will also want a BEV Transit Connect Van and passenger version,  plus a BEV pickup to take some load

off T6 Ranger. On top of that, Europe also supplies vehicles to loads of other markets. Huge potential.

 

Even though CE1 appears limited with the three vehicles originally mentioned, there is a lot of potential there

for what I’d call aggressive regionalisation……if you follow that thinking, Europe and North American vehicles

could have a lot of differentiation style wise  so there’s a lot to be positive about.

 

Ford hasn't seemed to do well at leveraging their global platforms with regional models.

[Rick73]

13 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

I can totally see a market for EVs that are a lot nicer than some 15 grand Chinese shoebox, but a lot more obtainable than a 100k model s. Something that's fun and engaging to drive that doesn't need a 1,000 hp and a mid 2 second 0-60. 

With exception of “fun and engaging to drive” which is very subjective, doesn’t that describe over 95% of available BEVs?  Lack of demand may be more about many buyers not being ready to accept BEVs yet.

 

 

13 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

But aspirational, fun, charismatic EVs 25-35 grand with 300 miles of range, and maybe 250-400 hp, that's a market in the EV world that's pretty underserved right now. 

Closest to that combination at present I’m aware of is the long range Tesla Model 3, though actual cost is closer to $45k before incentives, once options and fees are added.  And yes, it was the best selling electric car for years which confirmed demand for that type/class of vehicle, until Model Y replaced it at top.  I mostly agree with your premise but do not believe the $25~35k price range is achievable yet for a vehicle that enough buyers would consider aspirational.  It would be great to have 300 miles of range for under $35k in a vehicle more exciting than a Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf, but if it exists, I haven’t seen it yet.  Maybe Ford will be first.

[akirby]

45 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Ford hasn't seemed to do well at leveraging their global platforms with regional models.

Until C2.  The problem is Ford’s most successful North American platforms (F series, Transit) are too big for Europe and Asia.

 

T6 works with Ranger globally, Bronco here and Everest down under but doesn’t have enough models.

[jpd80]

8 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

It could help boost sales of what's already there Europe-wise.  But sure, it's not going to make sales double overnight.

 

 

Ford hasn't seemed to do well at leveraging their global platforms with regional models.

1. At the moment I’m sure Ford is prepared to try things like RS/ST trims on the BEVs (Puma for one)

but they are in a deep hole with the MEBs, having slowed production as sales keep falling away.

The issue is price is not matching buyer expectations there and adding more higher trims won’t fix that.

 

2. Absolutely, they follow the one Ford mantra way too closely and miss the opportunity to tailor products

to regional tastes and needs. Things seem to go off the rails for Europe when Fiesta, Focus, Escape and

Mondeo were changed to suit American needs…….something the previous Mazda based products did better.

 

I am hopeful that CE1 BEVs are a big opportunity for Ford to reset all of its strategy with vehicle delivery ideas,

always the optimist I suppose……

[DeluxeStang]

51 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

1. At the moment I’m sure Ford is prepared to try things like RS/ST trims on the BEVs (Puma for one)

but they are in a deep hole with the MEBs, having slowed production as sales keep falling away.

The issue is price is not matching buyer expectations there and adding more higher trims won’t fix that.

 

2. Absolutely, they follow the one Ford mantra way too closely and miss the opportunity to tailor products

to regional tastes and needs. Things seem to go off the rails for Europe when Fiesta, Focus, Escape and

Mondeo were changed to suit American needs…….something the previous Mazda based products did better.

 

I am hopeful that CE1 BEVs are a big opportunity for Ford to reset all of its strategy with vehicle delivery ideas,

always the optimist I suppose……

It's my hope that after getting the truck, and utility out the door, the high volume sellers, that Ford uses this platform to give us something more enthusiast oriented. Like making a Capri that's actually an affordable EV sports coupe or some sort of hot hatch. Will they do that? Almost certainly not, but I can dream 😂. 

 

CE1 could provide Ford with another original mustang/falcon moment. Using an affordable compact car platform to offer a fun, entry level sports car. That could be a fun way to expand the mustang sub brand if Ford still wants to do that, offer a 25-30k coupe EV that has like 250 hp that isn't fast, but almost anyone could afford it, make it easy to customize, and make it look fantastic. 

[DeluxeStang]

55 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

1. At the moment I’m sure Ford is prepared to try things like RS/ST trims on the BEVs (Puma for one)

but they are in a deep hole with the MEBs, having slowed production as sales keep falling away.

The issue is price is not matching buyer expectations there and adding more higher trims won’t fix that.

 

2. Absolutely, they follow the one Ford mantra way too closely and miss the opportunity to tailor products

to regional tastes and needs. Things seem to go off the rails for Europe when Fiesta, Focus, Escape and

Mondeo were changed to suit American needs…….something the previous Mazda based products did better.

 

I am hopeful that CE1 BEVs are a big opportunity for Ford to reset all of its strategy with vehicle delivery ideas,

always the optimist I suppose……

I know some will say that's what the mustang Ecoboost is for, but even a mustang Ecoboost is getting into the 40s, I've even seen some creeping close to 50 grand when fully loaded. So I personally believe there's a market for this sort of thing. 

 

Young people are still car enthusiasts, we just can't afford anything that isn't a brz, and that's the size of a matchbox car, highly compromised. Something in between the size of the current mustang and a brz would be ideal. 

 

Would a product like this sell in hundreds of thousands of units a year? Almost certainly not, but it would give CE1 instant appeal and credibility, and could be quite profitable if they go about it the right way. 

 

Not to mention by all accounts GM is at least considering making a new smaller EV Camaro that's meant to be significantly more affordable than the 6th Gen was. It would be a mistake to not even consider offering a Ford rival to that. Fun affordable EVs seem like the market you want to be playing in as a brand moving forward. 

[jpd80]

14 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

I know some will say that's what the mustang Ecoboost is for, but even a mustang Ecoboost is getting into the 40s, I've even seen some creeping close to 50 grand when fully loaded. So I personally believe there's a market for this sort of thing. 

 

Young people are still car enthusiasts, we just can't afford anything that isn't a brz, and that's the size of a matchbox car, highly compromised. Something in between the size of the current mustang and a brz would be ideal. 

 

Would a product like this sell in hundreds of thousands of units a year? Almost certainly not, but it would give CE1 instant appeal and credibility, and could be quite profitable if they go about it the right way. 

 

Not to mention by all accounts GM is at least considering making a new smaller EV Camaro that's meant to be significantly more affordable than the 6th Gen was. It would be a mistake to not even consider offering a Ford rival to that. Fun affordable EVs seem like the market you want to be playing in as a brand moving forward. 

The issue isn’t the vehicles as much as the ever increasing prices being charged

and outside of F Series and other commercial vehicles, Ford is content with selling

less for higher prices……I don’t know how much longer it can sustain that model.

 

Only recently has Ford offered employee pricing to regular buyers with an immediate

strong uptick in dealer foot traffic and sales. Whoda thunk lower prices gets sales……

Edited April 18 by jpd80

[DeluxeStang]

59 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The issue isn’t the vehicles as much as the ever increasing prices being charged

and outside of F Series and other commercial vehicles, Ford is content with selling

less for higher prices……I don’t know how much longer it can sustain that model.

 

Only recently has Ford offered employee pricing to regular buyers with an immediate

strong uptick in dealer foot traffic and sales. Whoda thunk lower prices gets sales……

Agreed, this can't keep up forever. Like I'm a younger person who's strongly interested in owning a new V8 mustang, and I've met several younger people who feel the same way. The issue is a 50 grand gt is already a tall ask as it is, and then they're increasing the price by thousands of dollars every model year on top of it. 

 

This needs to change. Hopefully by sharing a platform with a mustang sedan helps to reduce the cost of the mustang coupe, and make it easier for Ford to justify investing in it in the future. 

[rmc523]

On 4/18/2025 at 10:02 AM, akirby said:

Until C2.  The problem is Ford’s most successful North American platforms (F series, Transit) are too big for Europe and Asia.

 

T6 works with Ranger globally, Bronco here and Everest down under but doesn’t have enough models.

 

That's because they shoot themselves in the foot and start over on a new platform every time they finally get a platform settled.

 

And you use C2 as a success story, except for the fact that they're dropping most models on it in Europe......Escape and Corsair aren't long for the world either.

[tzach]

It is a very sad time to be a Ford Fan.  I have driven Fords exclusively since my first car I bought, a 1972 Mustang Mach 1.  The aero design introduction in 1983 really kicked Ford into high gear for about a decade, probably the best time at least during my lifetime.  Now with the death of all the sedans, Edge and soon Escape there is not much left and what is left is super expensive.  Hopefully they have a good plan going forward maybe with hybrids first to transition to EVs later and some less expensive options.

[DeluxeStang]

On 4/21/2025 at 6:56 AM, rmc523 said:

 

That's because they shoot themselves in the foot and start over on a new platform every time they finally get a platform settled.

 

And you use C2 as a success story, except for the fact that they're dropping most models on it in Europe......Escape and Corsair aren't long for the world either.

A refreshed mondeo was spied recently and that rides on c2, so hopefully that's gonna stick around for a while longer. It was testing in the states, but it's unlikely it'll end up coming here, Ford's been known to test overseas models here before.