The New Ford Sports Car

[wescoent]

Since I've been on this forum, I've heard endless bitching about how the Mustang is Ford's only sports car, and why they should offer something else.

 

Well, this is the topic where YOU make your business case for YOUR vision of what Ford's non-Mustang sports car should be. Explain what it is (platform, motors, styling), how much it costs, what customers it targets, and why this will be as profitable as pouring more money into the Mustang.

 

MY VISION

 

One big complaint I always hear about the Mustang is how big and heavy it is. So, this sports car will slot directly underneath the Mustang in size and price. I'll call it the Reflex, but it will be somewhat larger than the show car. C1 or C2 based (FWD only), 2+2 seating, Reflex styling, and a pair of GTDI motors (1.6L 130hp motor for fuel economy, and a 2.0L 170hp motor for zip). Pricing will be around $13,000 for a stripper, up to $20,000 for a fully-loaded example. It will target the same people that buy Scion tCs, Hyundai Tiburons, Civic Si's, and Cobalt coupes. It will require virtually no unique parts other than the interior and sheetmetal, so it should sell enough to amortize costs, and bring new customers to the Ford brand. Mazda will get a version as well.

 

The real fun begins with the SVT model. This will hopefully lift a drivetrain out of a Focus RS. 300hp turbo 5-cylinder with DSG transmission and a performance AWD system. Only a few thousand available for sale in the US. Mainly exists for magazine comparisons and a few lucky buyers with dealer connections and $30,000 to burn for an EVO-beating Ford coupe.

[RichardJensen]

Modern day version of this car:

 

 

One of the prettiest GM ever built (IMO, only the '84 Vette and '63 Riviera looked better).

 

B car mechanicals, 2+2 layout (for some reason, I don't think a true 2 seater would sell as well as one with a theoretical capacity for 4 people). Sold globally, same price you outlined: $13-20k.

 

Engines would only be 4-cylinders, and there wouldn't be an SVT version.

[wescoent]

Modern day version of this car:

 

 

One of the prettiest GM ever built (IMO, only the '84 Vette and '63 Riviera looked better).

 

B car mechanicals, 2+2 layout (for some reason, I don't think a true 2 seater would sell as well as one with a theoretical capacity for 4 people). Sold globally, same price you outlined: $13-20k.

 

Engines would only be 4-cylinders, and there wouldn't be an SVT version.

 

Definately gorgeous, but I think the design would need to be compromised at least a little so that a human could physically fit in the backseat, and at least create some cargo room. The Opel GT seems to be one of those cars that's aesthetically perfect, but is cramped as hell with no cargo room, ala 60's Jaguars.

[TStag]

The kind of Sportscar I'd like to see from Ford is a new MG B or Triumph TR6. Especially in Europe! Perhaps they could launch it as part of a Mustang range.

[NickF1011]

The kind of Sportscar I'd like to see from Ford is a new MG B or Triumph TR6. Especially in Europe! Perhaps they could launch it as part of a Mustang range.

 

No! No! No!!

 

Mustang = 2+2, long hood, short deck, coupe/convertible, optional V8.

 

Don't go slapping the name on something that has nothing to do with that formula. I would like to see Ford expand the MX-5 underpinnings into the F-L-M lineup somewhere, but for heaven's sake, don't ruin another brand's image in the process.

[Captainp4]

A 4clyinder rwd coupe or convertible. Miata underneath, all Ford styling on the outside.. reflex like.

[Catalepsy]

It depends on what you mean by a "sports car." If you're talking about a $13-20K sporty small car based on the Reflex, or are you talking about a Vette fighter.

 

The B cars are coming. I don't think we'll ever get anything like the Reflex, but the smaller cars are coming. I'm sure some will be "Sporty." I don't think anyone would call them sports cars. After all the safety engineering, it will be just as heavy as the bigger cars pound-per-pound average horsepower.

 

Now if you're talking a Vette fighter, that's another story. It would too expensive, and I don't think Ford has the money to blow on something like that right now.

 

 

 

Since I've been on this forum, I've heard endless bitching about how the Mustang is Ford's only sports car, and why they should offer something else.

 

Well, this is the topic where YOU make your business case for YOUR vision of what Ford's non-Mustang sports car should be. Explain what it is (platform, motors, styling), how much it costs, what customers it targets, and why this will be as profitable as pouring more money into the Mustang.

 

MY VISION

 

One big complaint I always hear about the Mustang is how big and heavy it is. So, this sports car will slot directly underneath the Mustang in size and price. I'll call it the Reflex, but it will be somewhat larger than the show car. C1 or C2 based (FWD only), 2+2 seating, Reflex styling, and a pair of GTDI motors (1.6L 130hp motor for fuel economy, and a 2.0L 170hp motor for zip). Pricing will be around $13,000 for a stripper, up to $20,000 for a fully-loaded example. It will target the same people that buy Scion tCs, Hyundai Tiburons, Civic Si's, and Cobalt coupes. It will require virtually no unique parts other than the interior and sheetmetal, so it should sell enough to amortize costs, and bring new customers to the Ford brand. Mazda will get a version as well.

 

The real fun begins with the SVT model. This will hopefully lift a drivetrain out of a Focus RS. 300hp turbo 5-cylinder with DSG transmission and a performance AWD system. Only a few thousand available for sale in the US. Mainly exists for magazine comparisons and a few lucky buyers with dealer connections and $30,000 to burn for an EVO-beating Ford coupe.

[J-150]

I'd like to see a couple based off the Fusion. No, not a CD3, but a Fusion based car. The more shared parts the better.

 

Keep the same dash. But update the front grill/fascia and front panels for a slightly different look.

 

 

Same drivetrain as the Fusion too.

 

 

It doesn't need to be a speed freak, but something far sportier than what is out there now

 

(think Probe and Cougar)

[NickF1011]

(think Probe and Cougar)

 

Do we have to?

 

Fusion coupe would be a nice (and affordable) addition to the lineup though.

[BlackHorse]

I'd like to see something on a slightly shortened version of the Fusion chassis of course. I know the Fusion coupe is in the works according to some. It should of course have the 2.3 as the base motor, possibly a 2.3 turbo model and at the top end the 3.5 V6. It should be a 2 door model of course, with a pretty decent interior.

[Sizzler]

A new configuration is needed: a 2x(2x.5).

 

Two full size front seats. Two permanently-equipped/sized childrens seats in back. Factory baby seats that can be removed leaving factory kid seats behind. Smaller sized seats could also be placed higher, leaving storage space, always an issue in 'sports cars', underneath of them. Make the seats totally removable, leaving the rear space just one big open space, for the buyers who don't need/want the family-friendly version.

 

The only reason for young parents to go minivan/suv/bigger is that the kids just don't fit in the old 'sports cars'.

 

And face it, the only people who'd be back there are kids.

 

And yes, teenyboppers all want to pack the car with their friends, but if you think about the baby-seats rear seating area, it's actually a SAFETY feature. You won't have a bunch of yacky friends distracting a newby driver from paying attention to the road back there.

 

I'd make access to the rear seating area easy so that parents can plop the kids in there, strap them in (no way legal would sign off on auto-strapping seat occupants??), and go.

 

As for power, a mid-range 1-4 with a hybrid feature that sounds cool to the greenies, but is engineered for acceleration more than for mileage. An all torque electric motor that charges up while cruising but that the driver can choose to unlease (and disable the traction control at the same time) at will...probably in stop light to stop light zones. If not electric, then hydraulic.

[falconman13]

I think the Mustang carries Fords Sports car banner quite well. The market for a small sports car is limited I'm afraid. A Fusion Coupe/Convert. I believe would be more realistic.

[J-150]

Do we have to?

 

Fusion coupe would be a nice (and affordable) addition to the lineup though.

 

 

okay Nick.

 

you're right.

 

 

bad examples. let's keep monte carlo off the list too!

 

:slap:

Edited April 9, 2007 by J-150

[igor]

Reflex is still under development .. It is to become a global B-car coupe (Ford OE likes the design), possibly named Puma (remember the Puma?) at least in some markets.

 

At this point it was not approved yet. But, if approved it will be the "premium" subcompact that Fields talked about last year.

 

Puma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Puma

Igor

Edited April 9, 2007 by igor

[NickF1011]

Reflex is still under development .. It is to become a global B-car coupe (Ford OE likes the design), possibly named Puma (remember the Puma?) at least in some markets.

 

At this point it was not approved yet. But, if approved it will be the "premium" subcompact that Fields talked about last year.

 

Puma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Puma

Igor

 

Would it be RWD or FWD? What was the Reflex concept? Either one would work in that segment I think. Maybe a chance of AWD even? That would rock.

[joihan777]

Since I've been on this forum, I've heard endless bitching about how the Mustang is Ford's only sports car, and why they should offer something else.

 

Well, this is the topic where YOU make your business case for YOUR vision of what Ford's non-Mustang sports car should be. Explain what it is (platform, motors, styling), how much it costs, what customers it targets, and why this will be as profitable as pouring more money into the Mustang.

 

MY VISION

 

One big complaint I always hear about the Mustang is how big and heavy it is. So, this sports car will slot directly underneath the Mustang in size and price. I'll call it the Reflex, but it will be somewhat larger than the show car. C1 or C2 based (FWD only), 2+2 seating, Reflex styling, and a pair of GTDI motors (1.6L 130hp motor for fuel economy, and a 2.0L 170hp motor for zip). Pricing will be around $13,000 for a stripper, up to $20,000 for a fully-loaded example. It will target the same people that buy Scion tCs, Hyundai Tiburons, Civic Si's, and Cobalt coupes. It will require virtually no unique parts other than the interior and sheetmetal, so it should sell enough to amortize costs, and bring new customers to the Ford brand. Mazda will get a version as well.

 

The real fun begins with the SVT model. This will hopefully lift a drivetrain out of a Focus RS. 300hp turbo 5-cylinder with DSG transmission and a performance AWD system. Only a few thousand available for sale in the US. Mainly exists for magazine comparisons and a few lucky buyers with dealer connections and $30,000 to burn for an EVO-beating Ford coupe.

 

I've considered this same topic myself. How about a shortened & lowered Mustang chassis? The largest engine would be the Duratec 35, with a 4 cyl as the base engine. The rear seats would be shortened for more of a real 2+2 configuration.

Give it a slightly more aerodynamic rake. The beauty of basing the vehicle on a Mustang is keeping the chassis' torsional strength. Get rid of the current Mustang's B-pillars as well... a coupe look is great. A convertible version would be nice too.

 

And I pictured this car taking sales away from Boxer & 350Z as well. I thought of the name Wildcat, since Buick doesn't use it. I originally thought of the WW2 Wildcats, the ones that gave the IJN hell!

Edited April 9, 2007 by joihan777

[igor]

Would it be RWD or FWD? What was the Reflex concept? Either one would work in that segment I think. Maybe a chance of AWD even? That would rock.

FWD - AWD possible.

 

Reflex was FWD, so was the original Puma.

 

Igor

[NickF1011]

FWD - AWD possible.

 

Reflex was FWD, so was the original Puma.

 

Igor

 

Was it one of the Mazda concepts that was RWD then? I'm pretty sure one of them was. Memory failing me as I approach 30.

[silvrsvt]

And I pictured this car taking sales away from Boxer & 350Z as well. I thought of the name Wildcat, since Buick doesn't use it. I originally thought of the WW2 Wildcats, the ones that gave the IJN hell!

 

The Hellcat was a better airplane and had a 19-1 kill ratio...

 

:P

[falconman13]

Ford Reflex Concept

[sranger]

First the Mustang is a NOT a sports car. I have one and it does not handle or brake like a real sports...

 

My definition of a sports car is simple:

 

1) Two Seater...

 

2) Manual Shifter with a clutch pedal ( No silly paddle shifters )...

 

3) Rear wheel drive. NO CAR WITH FWD CAN BE A SPORTS CAR PERIOD!!! AWD is acceptable as long as the bias is tword the rear wheels.

 

4) Must be light weight... Under 3000lb for sure and far better if under 2500lb...

 

5) MUST HAVE A CONVERTABLE MODEL.

 

I can see two Different Sports cars....

 

The First would be a a turbo charged or supercharged Miata. The ONLY reason that I did not get a Mazda Speed Turbo Miata is that at 6'-4" I simply did not fit. I could barly work the clutch and my main view out the front was directly through the top of the windshield frame. My point is to make it a little bigger to appeal to larger people ( Think Solstice/Sky for size) . Offer it as a Ford____ or Mercury ____. The name really does not matter as long at it is a good performer.

 

The Second would be a big bad V8 2 seater Thunderbird. Put in a BOSS V8 and give it a great suspension and brakes. Make the interior a little more luxury. I would be willing to add a little weight to get a great interior in this sports car.

 

The key to all of this is performance. After all that is what this type of car is all about.

 

If the smaller one cannot preform with a Porsch Boxster S or a Cayman S what is the point?

 

Again, if the T bird cannot take on a C6 vette, what is the point?

 

I do not think Ford has the money or leadership to pull any of this off, but it is nice to dream.....

[RichardJensen]

I know the Fusion coupe is in the works according to some.

It's not. Coupe is DOA. Not enough real world customers. Just a lot of people saying, "wouldn't it be nice...."

[RichardJensen]

I do not think Ford has the money or leadership to pull any of this off, but it is nice to dream.....

 

Yeah, that's it. From now on, I'm going to say, "If Ford doesn't do what I want it's because they lack leadership and money."

 

I mean, it couldn't possibly be that your ideas are silly, right? It's that Ford doesn't have the stones do do what would be really cool right?

 

What is this? Junior High? "Oh well, I guess you shouldn't go smash mailboxes with us anyway, you're not cool enough."

[NickF1011]

It's not. Coupe is DOA. Not enough real world customers. Just a lot of people saying, "wouldn't it be nice...."

 

Cop out. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan all now offer coupe versions of their midsize sedans. Ford just doesn't want to loosen the purse strings for some odd reason.

[RichardJensen]

Cop out. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan all now offer coupe versions of their midsize sedans. Ford just doesn't want to loosen the purse strings for some odd reason.

And none of them sell for crap. With the Mustang already around, and priced in Fusion coupe territory, why would an investment in a Fusion coupe make any sense at all?

 

For the people that want a FWD coupe? For the people that want a coupe with usable rear seat room? How many people is that?

 

Nissan, Toyota and Honda don't have a Mustang. So.... Instead of bellyaching here about Ford not offering a Fusion coupe, why not go over and ask why they aren't developing a coupe that will sell at 40-60% of their sedan volume?