2009 Boss Mustang Prototype Spied?

[bravestar]

Ok, that's cool, everyone has their take on what a Mustang should or shouldn't be. Personally I thought the V6 thing was kinda cool. Also I would remind you that if cars stuck to their "heritage" the Corvette would still be sporting and inline 6 motor and the Mustang would still have 4 wheel drum brakes. So it all depends on where you draw the line at heritage. Lets also not forget that as long as we are bringing back the SVT performance that once upon a time there as a 4 cylinder SVT Mustang that was a pretty stout little car and is in fact becoming quite a collectors item.

 

I had a 84 Mustang GT ordered and the dealer offered to give me a "deal" on a SVO. Boy, I wish I would have taken that deal and kept the car until now. They are quite the collector car now.

 

I understand your point about heritage too. To each his own...I am just fond of V-8 cars.

[NickF1011]

Really, which platform did you have in mind? Aside from the crown vic Ford doesn't have any other RWD car chassis and I don't think they will put the Mustang on so large a chassis as that. Maybe they'll share platforms with the RX8? That might be kinda cool. Just supplant the rotary engine with a Ford piston engine if such a configuration could work in that car.

 

The platform at this point is quite up in the air, but it's still several years off so to expect anything to be in stone at this point would be silly. I seriously doubt Ford will be planning to keep the Mustang on its own unique (read expensive) architecture anymore.

[wescoent]

Well, let me just tell ya as a Mustang GT owner, no twin turbo v-6 as a Mustang performance car especially a Boss Mustang. Mustang is all about heritage and v-8 muscle. Remember the SVO? And get rid of this Shelby this and Shelby that. Bring back SVT in name and performance marketing. 5.4 v-8 or the new Boss engine (please use this name).

 

This is coming from not only a Mustang enthusiast but also a Mustang owner that shows his opinion with his pocket book.

 

Personally, I could care less how many cylinders the engine has, so long as the power is delivered evenly, and there's LOTS of it. A TT V6 would be very fuel-efficient when you're not flogging it, and add an element of balance to the car's weight.

[bravestar]

Personally, I could care less how many cylinders the engine has, so long as the power is delivered evenly, and there's LOTS of it. A TT V6 would be very fuel-efficient when you're not flogging it, and add an element of balance to the car's weight.

 

Why don't you poll any Mustang or Camaro owner and ask them if they would rather have a v-6 or a v-8? How about NASCAR with v-6 power or NHRA? I am telling you, this is a huge deal. You sound like someone who is only concerned with the performance numbers and not the sound and feel of v-8 power. Think about a twin turbo v-6 Z06? Some things just are not meant to be. I am not opposed to a v-6 at all but as a performance model (in a Mustang) v-8 define the pony car. The Super Coupe was a better performing car than the v-8 T-bird but everyone wanted a v-8.

[wescoent]

Why don't you poll any Mustang or Camaro owner and ask them if they would rather have a v-6 or a v-8? How about NASCAR with v-6 power or NHRA? I am telling you, this is a huge deal. You sound like someone who is only concerned with the performance numbers and not the sound and feel of v-8 power. Think about a twin turbo v-6 Z06? Some things just are not meant to be. I am not opposed to a v-6 at all but as a performance model (in a Mustang) v-8 define the pony car. The Super Coupe was a better performing car than the v-8 T-bird but everyone wanted a v-8.

 

Yeah. Had Ford not deliberately handicapped the Super Coupe, it would have ran circles around the V8 Mustang and Camaro of its day.

 

I drive a V8 LX Sport Thunderbird, in fact, so it's not like I have a vendetta against V8's. But since Ford seems to refuse to offer any performance model outside the Mustang, what about Ford fans who want the kind of balanced performance only a TT V6 can provide? There will be performance V8 Mustangs until the last drop of gas runs out, but what's wrong with offering buyers a choice, especially with so little cost to Ford?

[BlackHorse]

I understand how you feel Bravestar, I really do. I get the whole "it's gotta be a V8 mentality" that a lot of Mustang an Camaro owners feel. But you have to realize, times have changed my friend. We no longer have drive in movie theaters, nobody plays with hoola hoops, Gilligans Island is long off the air, carbs are a thing of the past on production cars, cars that are actually rear wheel drive are the minority now, and disco is dead. It's not 30 or 40 years ago bud. You have a whole generation of guys now that think the sound of a performance car sounds more like a sewing machine on overload then a throaty V8. So it's not like they are trying to insult you personally when they suggest V6 Mustangs. It's just a reflection of the fact that the Mustang with the V8 is more a relic of the past to them rather then a modern day sports car, regardless of it's modern day trappings. There is a whole generation now that would rather get performance out of a 4 cylinder car than a V8. Things change, it's the way of the world.

[bravestar]

Yeah. Had Ford not deliberately handicapped the Super Coupe, it would have ran circles around the V8 Mustang and Camaro of its day.

 

I drive a V8 LX Sport Thunderbird, in fact, so it's not like I have a vendetta against V8's. But since Ford seems to refuse to offer any performance model outside the Mustang, what about Ford fans who want the kind of balanced performance only a TT V6 can provide? There will be performance V8 Mustangs until the last drop of gas runs out, but what's wrong with offering buyers a choice, especially with so little cost to Ford?

 

I know what you mean about Ford and its performance offerings. Look at my signature, v-8 mustang, dog slow turbo coupe, too heavy cougar...just missing the sweet spot of what could have been great cars. I am all for choice, to each his own, but I just fear that Ford has a loyal following (who knows how long) for a v-8...be it as weak as some have been, and that is a market they should not turn from.

 

I think that the ricer thing is a fad too, the Too Fast and Too Furious crowd are now excited about older muscle cars and the new Camaro and Fords answer to it.

[bravestar]

I understand how you feel Bravestar, I really do. I get the whole "it's gotta be a V8 mentality" that a lot of Mustang an Camaro owners feel. But you have to realize, times have changed my friend. We no longer have drive in movie theaters, nobody plays with hoola hoops, Gilligans Island is long off the air, carbs are a thing of the past on production cars, cars that are actually rear wheel drive are the minority now, and disco is dead. It's not 30 or 40 years ago bud. You have a whole generation of guys now that think the sound of a performance car sounds more like a sewing machine on overload then a throaty V8. So it's not like they are trying to insult you personally when they suggest V6 Mustangs. It's just a reflection of the fact that the Mustang with the V8 is more a relic of the past to them rather then a modern day sports car, regardless of it's modern day trappings. There is a whole generation now that would rather get performance out of a 4 cylinder car than a V8. Things change, it's the way of the world.

 

I am not offended, the typed word is hard to understand the true meaning. I just hope that Ford does not abandoned any loyal following that they have. My generation was out of the performance car loop. The late sixty's cars were ones we all really wanted but the realities were turbo trans ams and two barrel mustang gt's.

 

You are right, different world now but if you have a loyal following be it with SVT or Mustang or F-Series or original Taurus, don't forget how you got there and play to your strengths.

[NickF1011]

I understand how you feel Bravestar, I really do. I get the whole "it's gotta be a V8 mentality" that a lot of Mustang an Camaro owners feel. But you have to realize, times have changed my friend. We no longer have drive in movie theaters, nobody plays with hoola hoops, Gilligans Island is long off the air, carbs are a thing of the past on production cars, cars that are actually rear wheel drive are the minority now, and disco is dead. It's not 30 or 40 years ago bud. You have a whole generation of guys now that think the sound of a performance car sounds more like a sewing machine on overload then a throaty V8. So it's not like they are trying to insult you personally when they suggest V6 Mustangs. It's just a reflection of the fact that the Mustang with the V8 is more a relic of the past to them rather then a modern day sports car, regardless of it's modern day trappings. There is a whole generation now that would rather get performance out of a 4 cylinder car than a V8. Things change, it's the way of the world.

 

Well some of us don't feel like surrendering the past so easily. I'm a relatively young guy still, and it pretty much sickens me how my generation is behaving in general. Obsessive fascinations with celebrities, horrible music, fashion that only Stevie Wonder could love, etc.....the V8 is one of the last bastions of our 'old school' culture that is still alive. I don't want to see it go!!!!

[silvrsvt]

I don't think Ford is stupid enough to get rid of the V8 in the Mustang, unless they where forced too. I see no issues with bringing out an TT 3.5L V6 as an additional vehicle to a V8 powered GT and the like, but not as a replacement.

[silvrsvt]

Well some of us don't feel like surrendering the past so easily. I'm a relatively young guy still, and it pretty much sickens me how my generation is behaving in general. Obsessive fascinations with celebrities, horrible music, fashion that only Stevie Wonder could love, etc.....the V8 is one of the last bastions of our 'old school' culture that is still alive. I don't want to see it go!!!!

 

I really think that its the media causing this and not people in general. I doubt that many people are that interested in Paris going to jail, its just that a part of the population likes it and then we proceed to get it force fed to us who really give a rats ass about it. I have to agree about the music thing...listening to Hits Station on Sat radio has made me figure out that the music industry has ran out of ideas and is retreading old songs sung by half ass groups. Its pretty bad when American Idol winners sound better then some of the groups I've heard of late.

[Edstock]

I have to agree about the music thing...listening to Hits Station on Sat radio has made me figure out that the music industry has ran out of ideas and is retreading old songs sung by half ass groups. Its pretty bad when American Idol winners sound better then some of the groups I've heard of late.

 

Yo. You have to search, but there are other sources, like

 

http://radio3.cbc.ca/

 

independent artists, all styles.

[BlackHorse]

Well some of us don't feel like surrendering the past so easily. I'm a relatively young guy still, and it pretty much sickens me how my generation is behaving in general. Obsessive fascinations with celebrities, horrible music, fashion that only Stevie Wonder could love, etc.....the V8 is one of the last bastions of our 'old school' culture that is still alive. I don't want to see it go!!!!

 

Not to defend the current generation because I happen to agree that much of their behavior is pretty stupid. But, once upon a time the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rock & Roll and all those damn kids driving around in their little Mustangs and Camaros was proof enough to the older generation at the time that the country was going to hell in a hand basket.

[syrtran]

Well, let me just tell ya as a Mustang GT owner, no twin turbo v-6 as a Mustang performance car especially a Boss Mustang. Mustang is all about heritage and v-8 muscle. Remember the SVO?

Every single day

I'm still hoping for a replacement. It's a little tough when I'm driving down the road and a WRX or Evo passes by. Since NY approved Cal-style emission inspections, I'm a little leery about 'upgrading' the thing.

And get rid of this Shelby this and Shelby that. Bring back SVT in name and performance marketing. 5.4 v-8 or the new Boss engine (please use this name).

Unfortunately for you, the Shelby name is much more recognized by the general public than SVT ever was. And bigger engines seem to only scare buyers away.

 

This is coming from not only a Mustang enthusiast but also a Mustang owner that shows his opinion with his pocket book.

Well, I haven't bought another Mustang in 22 years, because every time I drive the SVO I'm reminded that it's -exactly- what I want in my Mustang. Had I been old enough in 1965, it would've been a GT-350, in 1969, a Boss 302. There hasn't been another Mustang since 1986 that has captured the balanced cornering and power so well, although the current GT's come close.

 

It seems to me that you're looking for a Boss 429. I want a Boss 302. A turbo V6 comes much closer to that nowadays than any 'truck' motor does.

[Blue II]

The 5.8 Boss has been cancelled for the Mustang. The 6.2 is truck only, block has been redesigned slightly. The 7.0 development continues, application undetermined.

 

The new 5.0 Jag DI engine is too costly for the Mustang.

Edited June 6, 2007 by Blue II

[NickF1011]

The 5.8 Boss has been cancelled for the Mustang. The 6.2 is truck only, block has been redesigned slightly. The 7.0 development continues, application undetermined.

 

The new 5.0 Jag DI engine is too costly for the Mustang.

 

This might actually end up being a smart move by Ford. Does the Mustang in ANY way really even NEED the 5.8? Gasoline isn't getting any cheaper, and such an engine would likely end up being a turnoff for consumers in the future. Hopefully this means Ford will continue development on the MOD lineup and perhaps give it some much-needed goodies like VVT and cylinder deactivation to address fuel economy concerns. It's not like the MOD is a relic which can't make adequate power to meet the demands of 99.9% of consumers.

[Sixt9coug]

The Mustang should always have an available V8. Its not like two engines cant share the limelight.

 

Look at the Falcon. The Turbo 6 and V8 live in harmony. Id rather have the Turbo Mustang than the V8, but thats just my preference. I already own enough V8s to keep the oil funds busy :D

[wescoent]

The 5.8 Boss has been cancelled for the Mustang. The 6.2 is truck only, block has been redesigned slightly. The 7.0 development continues, application undetermined.

 

The new 5.0 Jag DI engine is too costly for the Mustang.

 

Interesting development. In my little patchwork understanding of Ford's product plans, I envisioned the Mustang's near future motor lineup to look something like this:

 

3.7L V6- 275hp

4.6L MOD V8- 340hp

5.8L Boss V8- 360hp (replaces MOD)

3.5L TT V6- 425hp

6.2L TT or 7.0L BOSS V8- 600hp

 

It seems to me that the 4.6L 3V is going to be an orphan motor, with the new focus on the Boss V8's. GM is going to be bringing a 6.2L, 360hp V8 to the table for the Camaro, and we know Dodge will be giving the Hemi to the Challenger. Ford needs at least 340hp from the 2009 Mustang's V8 if it hopes to compete toe to toe.

 

However, it's looking like Ford's pocket ace is going to be the 3.5L turbo V6. GM and Chrysler aren't going to have anything like it, and it will bring an element of balance and fuel efficiency that will catch both of them with their pants down, and with the right suspension adjustments, could bring the pain to some much more expensive vehicles (M3 and S5 are coming to mind).

[White99GT]

The 5.8 Boss has been cancelled for the Mustang. The 6.2 is truck only, block has been redesigned slightly. The 7.0 development continues, application undetermined.

 

The new 5.0 Jag DI engine is too costly for the Mustang.

 

Wow, so the 5.8 has been cancelled and the 6.2 is truck only. Unless a specialty hi-po Mustang gets the 7.0 it looks like the Mustang won't be getting the Boss?

 

Was the N/A 5.4 4V Mach 1 cancelled as well?

 

WTF is going on at Ford?

[DonL]

The 5.8 Boss has been cancelled for the Mustang. The 6.2 is truck only, block has been redesigned slightly. The 7.0 development continues, application undetermined.

 

The new 5.0 Jag DI engine is too costly for the Mustang.

 

Well, that is a disapointment. Is this because of possible new CAFE standards or a money issue? I am sure that they could probably get equal performance out of the TT3.5 but to me a Mustang needs a V8 so count me out on that one. I don't see a MOD engine competing with the 6.2 chevy or Hemi without forced induction. That just adds weight which hurts fuel milage and handling. I was excited about this new engine in a mid level mustang between the gt and the shelby but i guess it is not ment to be. It is more and more looking like I will be looking elsewhere for my new car. Never have owned anything but Fords but I guess times are changing.

[suv_guy_19]

Well, that is a disapointment. Is this because of possible new CAFE standards or a money issue? I am sure that they could probably get equal performance out of the TT3.5 but to me a Mustang needs a V8 so count me out on that one. I don't see a MOD engine competing with the 6.2 chevy or Hemi without forced induction. That just adds weight which hurts fuel milage and handling. I was excited about this new engine in a mid level mustang between the gt and the shelby but i guess it is not ment to be. It is more and more looking like I will be looking elsewhere for my new car. Never have owned anything but Fords but I guess times are changing.

 

 

we don't even know what the enigne line will look like yt...why are we all jumping to conclusions....yeah...so....there won't be a 5.8....maybethats a good thing....theres no reason for that size engine when others may be able to do similar.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

So, lets recap what we now have in our pocket:

 

For the mustang in the future.

The existing 4.0L Cologne V6 is going away, if for no other reason then CAFE. To be replaced by a 3.5L cyclone v6 (or a derivative thereof displacing something similar).

 

The 5.8L v8 is not going in the mustang.

The 6.2L is truck only, and, thusly, not going in the mustang.

The 7.0L is an unknown at present, but, is at least 3 or more years away from next year.

 

We know that the 6.8L V-10 is going away (the 6.2L V8 will be its replacement). We also have been informed that the 5.4L program is set to end soon as well.

 

The JAG V8 (in any displacement from 3.9L to 4.4L) remains an option, but an expensive one as the LIMA v8 line is no longer making them. It would have to be imported from europe. Doesn't fit the character of the car.

 

The new 5.0L Jag engine is not slated for the mustang at this time either.

 

This leaves the 4.6L 3V as the only v8 in Ford's stable that is not excluded from the mustang for one reason or another.

 

The mustang engine lineup will look like this come the new model intro:

Cyclone v6 as base, NA, around 260 HP and 250 lbs torque

GT will have a minor power improved 4.6L 3V mod maybe 310 or 320 HP, 330 lbs torque.

Will immediately face Camaro and Challenger sporting 360+ HP and likely at least 345+ lbs torque each. Both will likely weigh more than the mustang.

 

The next SE mustang after the body style/model changeover will be powered by a Twin Turbo cyclone v6. It will likely have more than 400 HP and about the same torque. It will also get similar gas mileage to the GT.

 

Expect to see GM immediately counter with a 7.0L camaro and Chrysler go with as big a HEMI as they can fit into the Challenger. The GM camaro with a 7.0L v8 engine will still get better gas mileage than the mustang because that's just the way it is. No one will care about the Challenger's gas mileage, but they will care about the gas guzzler tax that it has.

[one2gamble]

This might actually end up being a smart move by Ford. Does the Mustang in ANY way really even NEED the 5.8? Gasoline isn't getting any cheaper, and such an engine would likely end up being a turnoff for consumers in the future. Hopefully this means Ford will continue development on the MOD lineup and perhaps give it some much-needed goodies like VVT and cylinder deactivation to address fuel economy concerns. It's not like the MOD is a relic which can't make adequate power to meet the demands of 99.9% of consumers.

 

 

Its all about available options. There is no reason to NOT have the 3.5, 4.6, 5.8, 6.2 and 7.0L as available options in the mustang.

[Edstock]

Expect to see GM immediately counter with a 7.0L camaro and Chrysler go with as big a HEMI as they can fit into the Challenger. The GM camaro with a 7.0L v8 engine will still get better gas mileage than the mustang because that's just the way it is. No one will care about the Challenger's gas mileage, but they will care about the gas guzzler tax that it has.

 

How much will that 7 liter all-alloy engine cost?

 

The point is, if supercharging is a dead-end because of poor mileage, perhaps a twin-turbo 4.6 3-valve engine could make it to the Mustang for about the same cost as the Chev 7 liter.

 

Anyway, at 400hp, the TT V-6 Mustang will hit a sweet-spot for handling and accleleration and top speed. Can't wait to see that giant iron-block Hemi Challenger through a tight corner.

[bravestar]

Wow, so the 5.8 has been cancelled and the 6.2 is truck only. Unless a specialty hi-po Mustang gets the 7.0 it looks like the Mustang won't be getting the Boss?

 

Was the N/A 5.4 4V Mach 1 cancelled as well?

 

WTF is going on at Ford?

 

I would guess that there is as much information in what Blue II doesn't say as to what he proclaims. If not 5.8 maybe 5.0...maybe some other engine. I find it hard to believe that a twin turbo v-6 is cost effective against a v-8. I am wondering if the 7.0 will not be in a limited edition Boss model (429)