2009 Boss Mustang Prototype Spied?

[bravestar]

How much will that 7 liter all-alloy engine cost?

 

The point is, if supercharging is a dead-end because of poor mileage, perhaps a twin-turbo 4.6 3-valve engine could make it to the Mustang for about the same cost as the Chev 7 liter.

 

Question Mr Edstock,

 

Do you really think that a twin turbo mulitvalve engine with all the things associated with it would cost less to manufacture than a pushrod v-8 even with an alloy block? I find that hard to believe, as well as the man hours and added assembly time to install the powerplant.

Edited June 6, 2007 by bravestar

[DonL]

we don't even know what the enigne line will look like yt...why are we all jumping to conclusions....yeah...so....there won't be a 5.8....maybethats a good thing....theres no reason for that size engine when others may be able to do similar.

 

I don't care what the size is I just want a V8, it could be a 5.2 5.6 whatever. Just something other than the old MOD motors. I am not saying ford won't come up with something but I am to the stage where I will believe it when I see it.

[suv_guy_19]

I don't care what the size is I just want a V8, it could be a 5.2 5.6 whatever. Just something other than the old MOD motors. I am not saying ford won't come up with something but I am to the stage where I will believe it when I see it.

 

 

with all respect....the 4.6 is agood motor and we don't know where it can go...maybe they can get more power than we think out of it.

Edited June 7, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[BlackHorse]

with all respect....the 4.6 is agood motor and we don't know where it can go...maybe they can get more power than we think out of it.

 

 

I would say that's a safe bet given that Koenigsegg gets over 600 horsepower out of it.

[suv_guy_19]

I would say that's a safe bet given that Koenigsegg gets over 600 horsepower out of it.

 

 

so...possible ford decided it did not need a different engine....we'll have to wait and see...I just don't see why people would be worried about Ford ruining the mustang.

Edited June 7, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[DonL]

so...possible ford decided it did not need a different engine....we'll have to wait and see...I just don't see why people would be worried about Ford ruining the mustang.

 

I not so worried about them ruining the mustang I was just stating that one of its selling points to me was going to be the new V8, without it I am less interested thats all. While I agree that the MODs are fine motors,my 5.4 in my truck has been good, I would like to see ford move on and make some progress in the engine department. I don't know that a MOD 4.6 can get 400hp without forced induction, which I don't want. As a gearhead I like new gadgets and technologies. For me the new BOSS motor was going to be it, all the better if it was a CGI Block or Direct injecttion or whatever else they could of thought up.

[Blueblood]

The 5.8 Boss has been cancelled for the Mustang. The 6.2 is truck only, block has been redesigned slightly. The 7.0 development continues, application undetermined.

 

The new 5.0 Jag DI engine is too costly for the Mustang.

 

Holy shit.

 

So Ford threw in the towell before the fight even started??

 

A LOT of people will be buying Challenger's and Camaro's, once again Ford shows what unbelievable stupid pussies they are...

 

How they can ruin the Mustang out of all cars is just incredible, the car guys are dead..

[Blueblood]

with all respect....the 4.6 is agood motor and we don't know where it can go...maybe they can get more power than we think out of it.

 

Quit making excuses, the motor is nothing special and can't make much more power N/A, and will be humiliated by the competition, even by their little V6's!

 

Ford has once again promised greatness only to cower out at the last second, they can go fuck themselves, I'll go buy something better since the competition tries to actually please the customer.

[BlackHorse]

Quit making excuses, the motor is nothing special and can't make much more power N/A, and will be humiliated by the competition, even by their little V6's!

 

Ford has once again promised greatness only to cower out at the last second, they can go fuck themselves, I'll go buy something better since the competition tries to actually please the customer.

 

Ok, buy bye. Don't expect we'll see you around here anymore. Have a nice life. Ford doesn't give a shit about you and certainly none of us do. Seeya. Go get a Corrolla.

[Blueblood]

Ok, buy bye. Don't expect we'll see you around here anymore. Have a nice life. Ford doesn't give a shit about you and certainly none of us do. Seeya. Go get a Corrolla.

 

 

Go fuck yourself, why don't you go buy a Corolla, it seems right up your alley you little fruitcake..

[silvrsvt]

Nice to see people sniping at one another again...

 

Anyways....BlueII is there any rumors for the Mustang besides it getting a TT 3.5L V6 in the future? I'd assume the 4.6L will get a small bump, but the lack of the Boss is pretty disappointing, unless Ford is working on a smaller block (5.0L ish sized) V8 for sedans also...

[Blue II]

Nice to see people sniping at one another again...

 

Anyways....BlueII is there any rumors for the Mustang besides it getting a TT 3.5L V6 in the future? I'd assume the 4.6L will get a small bump, but the lack of the Boss is pretty disappointing, unless Ford is working on a smaller block (5.0L ish sized) V8 for sedans also...

 

They are looking at a 5.0 Mod. Not too many details at this time.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

I would imagine that a 5.0L MOD might make sense for two seperate programs.

 

We all know about the 5.0L Crate MOD DOHC motor that's out there, and how fabulously its done since its introduction. If they can come up with a production ready version of that engine, or, even a version of the 5.0L block and rotating assembly with a slightly improved version of the 3V heads, they could have a very nice engine package on their hands.

 

Obviously, the first program that would benifit is the Mustang program. The advertising potential alone would be worth the price of entry, not to mention that the power and torque increase from such a change might be more than trivial. You're talking about a displacement increase of about 8%, and, if its achieved with at least some increase to the bore, better breathing as a result. I would not be surprised to see a 10% increase in torque from the combo of displacement increase and head tweak. That would give around 350 lbs of torque on the same fuel. The resulting HP would be around 330, unless they drastically increase the breathing efficiency of the heads by going 4V or opening up the valve sizes and increase the redline for the whole package.

 

The second benificiary would be the F-150 program. Current information that the board has is that the 4.6L is going in the F-150 as the base v8 at least initially. Now, 320 lbs of torque is right in there with the Toyota and DCX base V8s (the 4.7L DOHC and the 4.7L SOHC dual plug) its a bit up on the GM 4.8L as well IIRC. A boost to 340-350 lbs would put it in GM 5.3L territory. It would also be a big shot in the arm for the usage of that engine in the trucks as the extra torque is much needed given the current weight of the F-150. I can't see the new model drastically reducing it given the limitations of development dollars. As a side effect, it should also help the Explorer. While it will eventually move to unibody, it wil likely keep it F/R longitudinal layout and may keep the same series of engines going. While the D35 family will likely replace the coloogne 4.0L at some point, the 5.0L will also likely replace the 4.6L in the explorer too. I can't see it making sense for Ford to keep the 4.6L 3V in production with the 5.0L existing in production trim.

 

All of this is contingent upon Ford deciding to make the 5.0L MOD a production level engine and not an SVT only engine program. As an SVT only program, it makes sense for there to be a MACH, GT350, BOSS 350 or something like that based off of it.

 

And, to the Panther Mafia, if its a production level engine, this is likely the best of all possible worlds for that car as the engine will be light and powerful. Too bad Ford will NEVER give the panthers another cent in development money. They'd just as soon retire the panther line then drop a dime into it even to meet CAFE requirements.

[White99GT]

Quit making excuses, the motor is nothing special and can't make much more power N/A, and will be humiliated by the competition, even by their little V6's!

 

They can get plenty more out of the 4.6 Modular N/A -- but they'll likely need to resurrect a 4V program and develop new parts, not just attempt to mix and match years-old, off-the-shelf, former production parts -- or just open up the Ford Racing catalog. Maybe they could even steal some parts from the Grand Am Cammer program. Why develop winning race engines not to use the tech again?

 

I would LOVE to see this in the engine bay of a brand new production Mustang (note the intake manifold):

Edited June 7, 2007 by White99GT

[BlackHorse]

Go fuck yourself, why don't you go buy a Corolla, it seems right up your alley you little fruitcake..

 

 

I'm sorry Blueblood are you still here? Did you say something? I wasn't paying attention because I just assumed you would be man enough to live up to your word and leave. How siilly of me, of course you're not man enough. Perhaps you would like to throw another little temper tantrum like about a 5 year old brat would do? I know, you could further demonstrate your absolute ignorance about what a 4.6 motor can or can't do. That'll be fun. :slap: Tool! Get back in line, keep your mouth shut and learn something!!

[silvrsvt]

Blue,

 

with the minor changes to the 6.2L are they really minor or is the Boss not coming out with the 09 F-150 next summer?

[DonL]

They are looking at a 5.0 Mod. Not too many details at this time.

 

Is there some benefit to ford for doing this. Why not use the new engine architecture, I would think the BOSS engine would have been designed to address some of the issues of the MOD motor and it would cheaper to develope one V8 engine architecture versus two

[fbmphil]

Didn't the 5.0 Mod motors already fail durability tests in the past? Why would they be feasible now?

[NickF1011]

Didn't the 5.0 Mod motors already fail durability tests in the past? Why would they be feasible now?

 

There are quite a few different methods Ford could use to attain a displacement of 5.0 liters from the mods. The only method I'm aware of that was downright rejected for durability were the early spray-bore versions.

[RichardJensen]

Didn't the 5.0 Mod motors already fail durability tests in the past? Why would they be feasible now?

 

Ford lowered its standards?

 

Edited June 7, 2007 by RichardJensen

[NickF1011]

Ford lowered its standards?

 

 

They're just using the same durability scale that Toyota used while developing the 5.7 V8.

[White99GT]

Ford lowered its standards?

 

 

AFAIK, only the 3.7" "spray bore" failed the durability tests.

 

Assuming even a resleeved 4.6 block (3.7" bore) would also fail Ford's durability requirements, I would assume there are other ways to get at least 4950cc of displacement that most likely would pass.

 

For example, a 3.642" x 3.632" bore/stoke would offer 4960cc (303 ci, 5.0L) of displacement.

 

A 5.4L destroked with a 3.85" stroke would offer 5001 cc (305 ci, 5.0L) of displacement, although that would be a pretty dumb method IMO.

Edited June 7, 2007 by White99GT

[old_fairmont_wagon]

I believe that with Ford outsourcing casting that this opens up the opportunity for there to be an intermediate deck height MOD (somewhere between the 4.6L and 5.4L) that allows for a slightly larger bore and a longer stroke. We shall see.

[Blueblood]

They can get plenty more out of the 4.6 Modular N/A -- but they'll likely need to resurrect a 4V program and develop new parts, not just attempt to mix and match years-old, off-the-shelf, former production parts -- or just open up the Ford Racing catalog. Maybe they could even steal some parts from the Grand Am Cammer program. Why develop winning race engines not to use the tech again?

 

I would LOVE to see this in the engine bay of a brand new production Mustang (note the intake manifold):

 

 

Well it comes down to cost and sticking with a plan, Ford has wasted so much time and money "mulling", designing new engines only to cancel them later, which puts development on current engines like the mod on hold. It has to be more expensive and pointless to go through a decade of engineering the Hurricane/Boss motors only to use them in the F-150. We know that Ford had planned on putting DI in the mods, but scrapped it probably because they were to be soon replaced. I'm not a fan of the small bores either, or the mammoth size and weight of these motors. While it would be nice to see the heads and intakes from the racing programs used on production cars, I don't think Ford will ever do that. Yea, a 4.6 with the GA heads, intake, DI, and dual VVT would make nice numbers, the bean counters would never let it fly.

 

So what are we left with now? The heavy, inefficient mods, with no tech like DI, dual VVT, etc, and competition coming out with big powerful engines.. I've been dreaming of Ford finally having a modern, large V8 to put into passenger cars, and If I was buying a new Mustang I'd gladly pay a premium for that engine, cost shouldn't be the #1 issue, unless Ford really does want to be the Wal-Mart of cars..

[Blueblood]

I'm sorry Blueblood are you still here? Did you say something? I wasn't paying attention because I just assumed you would be man enough to live up to your word and leave. How siilly of me, of course you're not man enough. Perhaps you would like to throw another little temper tantrum like about a 5 year old brat would do? I know, you could further demonstrate your absolute ignorance about what a 4.6 motor can or can't do. That'll be fun. :slap: Tool! Get back in line, keep your mouth shut and learn something!!

 

Listen noob, I never said I was going anywhere, so can it.

 

You couldn't even fathom what I know about the modular engines, go ahead, make my day.. :devil2: