No More Customers for Life for Ford

[JM.]

I really want to but by the time I buy another car the Ford brand will not have a luxury player. Why do I want to buy a Ford? Because it is American and it is all my family has ever owned.

 

My first car was a mustang, I went to college, and will be looking to upgrade. If Ford sells LR/Jag will they have anything that is in my opinion on the level of BMW and Mercedes? Nope. Lincoln doesn't cut it as sporty luxury and anything with a blue oval surely doesn't cut it. Volvo, while nice, is too safe and too boring for my tastes.

 

I am really hoping the XF looks as good as the concept because that will be my next car if it does. Too bad by then Jaguar will be owned by another company!

 

So is this the fate of Ford if they sell LR/Jaguar? They get people with a starter car and as that person progresses through life, upgrading cars, Ford hands them over to another company? Thanks for buying our Taurus, now that you want something nicer try taking a look at Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, or Jaguar. Seems like a terrible plan...

 

 

Flint: Sell Jaguar? No, not now!

 

The point of this post is the customer for life mentality, not money & not careers!

Edited June 18, 2007 by JM.

[suv_guy_19]

I really want to but by the time I buy another car the Ford brand will not have a luxury player.

 

My first car was a mustang, I went to college, and now I'm making great money in a professional career. Within the next year I will have to buy a new car that looks professional as well. If Ford sells LR/Jag will they have anything that looks professional? Nope. Lincoln doesn't cut it as luxury and anything with a blue oval surely doesn't cut it. Volvo, while nice, is too safe, too boring.

 

I am really hoping the XF looks as good as the concept because that will be my next car if it does. Too bad by then Jaguar will be owned by another company!

 

So is this the fate of Ford if they sell LR/Jaguar? They get people with a starter car and as that person progresses through life, upgrading cars, Ford hands them over to another company? Thanks for buying our Taurus, now that you want something nicer try taking a look at Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, or Jaguar. Seems like a terrible plan...

Flint: Sell Jaguar? No, not now!

 

 

People seem to forget about Volvo and Lincoln...they are not as high market, that is true, but it doesn't really matter, Ford still has 2 luxury brands even if they sell the others....if you can't afford to feed all your kids is it better to give some up for adoption or just wait till you go bankrupt and everyone starves.

[BlackHorse]

I really want to but by the time I buy another car the Ford brand will not have a luxury player.

 

My first car was a mustang, I went to college, and now I'm making great money in a professional career. Within the next year I will have to buy a new car that looks professional as well. If Ford sells LR/Jag will they have anything that looks professional? Nope. Lincoln doesn't cut it as luxury and anything with a blue oval surely doesn't cut it. Volvo, while nice, is too safe, too boring.

 

I am really hoping the XF looks as good as the concept because that will be my next car if it does. Too bad by then Jaguar will be owned by another company!

 

So is this the fate of Ford if they sell LR/Jaguar? They get people with a starter car and as that person progresses through life, upgrading cars, Ford hands them over to another company? Thanks for buying our Taurus, now that you want something nicer try taking a look at Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, or Jaguar. Seems like a terrible plan...

Flint: Sell Jaguar? No, not now!

 

Wow, I didn't think people this snobby actually existed, I thought it was just a Hollywood thing. Where to begin?

 

1. Let me just say that I hope you didn't come here hoping that all of us little peope would just throw ourselves at your feet and beg your forgiveness because Ford does not make a luxury sedan that is up to your level of snobbery.

 

2. The plain truth is there is nothing worng with a loaded 2008 Taurus if you are looking for a car that portrays a "professional" image. It does so quite well. If it is still not up to your (or most likely that of your friends) standards then all I can say is you truly live among snobs.

 

3. You sound like the kind of customer that is probably a major pain in the ass to deal with so I don't think Ford is sweating your departure.

 

4. The "nicer" Cadillac you refer to is experiencing some terrible sales numbers right now so evidently you didn't get the latest snob memo about not buying those.

 

5. Get the fuck over yourself.

[DJ Starr]

Funny,

 

I work in sales and my vehicle is my office, my first impression. It has to reek of success and professionalism. It also speaks to my persona, my clientele and my values.

 

I recently test drove a Mercedes S 430 and Lexus (Forget the model number ES550?) a Cadillac Deville and DTS as well as many other vehicles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I bought an Edge SEL+ and sales have never been better... You know the one with the Blue Oval bearing down on your little luxury-mobile in your rear view mirror? Yeah, the grill is laughing at you!!!

Edited June 17, 2007 by DJ Starr

[CarShark]

Wow, BlackHorse. That was completely uncalled for. Customers like JM are the ones Ford can't afford to lose. Don't kid yourself. A loaded Taurus doesn't convey a "professional" image. It's just a family car. Lincoln's fall from grace has been well documented here, and I don't think it's a shock to see someone unimpressed with it. Same for Volvo. Just calling someone a snob because they don't think the same way you do is nothing short of reactionary and unconstructive. Do you think that all BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Audi buyers are snobs? If you do, I think it says more about you then luxury market customers at large.

Edited June 17, 2007 by CarShark

[one2gamble]

Wow, BlackHorse. That was completely uncalled for. Customers like JM are the ones Ford can't afford to lose. Don't kid yourself. A loaded Taurus doesn't convey a "professional" image. It's just a family car. Lincoln's fall from grace has been well documented here, and I don't think it's a shock to see someone unimpressed with it. Same for Volvo. Just calling someone a snob because they don't think the same way you do is nothing short of reactionary and unconstructive. Do you think that all BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Audi buyers are snobs? If you do, I think it says more about you then luxury market customers at large.

 

 

agreed

[suv_guy_19]

Wow, BlackHorse. That was completely uncalled for. Customers like JM are the ones Ford can't afford to lose. Don't kid yourself. A loaded Taurus doesn't convey a "professional" image. It's just a family car. Lincoln's fall from grace has been well documented here, and I don't think it's a shock to see someone unimpressed with it. Same for Volvo. Just calling someone a snob because they don't think the same way you do is nothing short of reactionary and unconstructive. Do you think that all BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Audi buyers are snobs? If you do, I think it says more about you then luxury market customers at large.

 

 

That's not at all what he said...he said that if they think they are better because they drive that...and will not buy from ford simply because they do not own a certain luxury brand....well then they are snobs.

[Catalepsy]

I've dealt with sales people for the past 8 years with my company...I can't remember what any one of them drove except for this guy that shows up in a custom truck and cowboy boots. For me, product, knowledge and presentation make sales. I hardly think a BMW or a MB in a company parking lot full of BMWs & MB impresses anyone really.

[BlackHorse]

Wow, BlackHorse. That was completely uncalled for. Customers like JM are the ones Ford can't afford to lose. Don't kid yourself. A loaded Taurus doesn't convey a "professional" image. It's just a family car. Lincoln's fall from grace has been well documented here, and I don't think it's a shock to see someone unimpressed with it. Same for Volvo. Just calling someone a snob because they don't think the same way you do is nothing short of reactionary and unconstructive. Do you think that all BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Audi buyers are snobs? If you do, I think it says more about you then luxury market customers at large.

 

First, Ford has already lost this man as a customer, didn't you read what he said? I don't work for Ford, and frankly I don't care what he thinks. Second, given that plenty of my co-workers and family drive what one would consider a luxury sedan of one sort or another I don't think it would be accurate to say I consider all owners of such cars to be snobs. Finally, with respect to this guy being a snob, I call them like I see them.

[BlackHorse]

That's not at all what he said...he said that if they think they are better because they drive that...and will not buy from ford simply because they do not own a certain luxury brand....well then they are snobs.

 

Now there's a man with reading comprehension skills. Thanks SUV, right on the money.

[TomServo92]

I've dealt with sales people for the past 8 years with my company...I can't remember what any one of them drove except for this guy that shows up in a custom truck and cowboy boots. For me, product, knowledge and presentation make sales. I hardly think a BMW or a MB in a company parking lot full of BMWs & MB impresses anyone really.

 

I have a friend that one time owned a business selling and installing residential and commercial security systems. He was making money hand over fist but he continued to drive this old Chevy pickup. I asked him why he didn't buy something nicer like a luxury car or SUV and he said that his theory was that projecting the image of a struggling businessman made sales easier. If he pulled up in an expensive vehicle then the customer would assume he didn't need the business. That strategy seemed to work quite well for him.

[BlackHorse]

I have a friend that one time owned a business selling and installing residential and commercial security systems. He was making money hand over fist but he continued to drive this old Chevy pickup. I asked him why he didn't buy something nicer like a luxury car or SUV and he said that his theory was that projecting the image of a struggling businessman made sales easier. If he pulled up in an expensive vehicle then the customer would assume he didn't need the business. That strategy seemed to work quite well for him.

 

 

Gee I guess that puts the Taurus back in play doesn't it CarShark. lol

[wescoent]

I really want to but by the time I buy another car the Ford brand will not have a luxury player.

 

My first car was a mustang, I went to college, and now I'm making great money in a professional career. Within the next year I will have to buy a new car that looks professional as well. If Ford sells LR/Jag will they have anything that looks professional? Nope. Lincoln doesn't cut it as luxury and anything with a blue oval surely doesn't cut it. Volvo, while nice, is too safe, too boring.

 

I am really hoping the XF looks as good as the concept because that will be my next car if it does. Too bad by then Jaguar will be owned by another company!

 

So is this the fate of Ford if they sell LR/Jaguar? They get people with a starter car and as that person progresses through life, upgrading cars, Ford hands them over to another company? Thanks for buying our Taurus, now that you want something nicer try taking a look at Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, or Jaguar. Seems like a terrible plan...

Flint: Sell Jaguar? No, not now!

 

For as much of a huge Ford fan I am, I truly believe that in my heart, my perfect vehicle is a BMW 5-Series, pre-Bangle. It's RWD, with plenty of room and practicality, zippy 6 and 8 cylinder engines, nice sport/luxury driving dynamics, and while fairly invisible on the highway, conveys a good image to my peers. However, BMW has moved on, and my alternatives have problems:

 

Audi A6: I have no trust whatsoever for VW reliability, and I'm not in love with the front-end styling

 

BMW 5-Series: Pricey as hell, and the styling is also a little weird

 

Cadillac STS: I hate the Art & Science design theme

 

Jaguar S-Type: Tight quarters (which I don't anticipate getting better with the XF)

 

Lexus GS450h: Expensive, and the hybrid system takes up a lot of room

 

Infiniti M-Series: Ugly in the back

 

Mercedes E-Class: Way too expensive on top of reliability questions

 

Some unconventional models that still fit the bill:

 

Chrysler 300C: Too gangster-mobile, plus the beltline is way too high

 

 

To be honest, my only real options include buying a used Lincoln LS V8 or BMW 5-Series, or getting a new Pontiac G8.

 

Image is a big deal here on the coasts. BMW and Mercedes are the norm here, where Chevy and Ford are the norms in the middle of the country. It's kind of a default buying decision, to fit in with the crowd. To say, hey, I'm successful too, just like all of you.

[BlackHorse]

Image is a big deal here on the coasts. BMW and Mercedes are the norm here, where Chevy and Ford are the norms in the middle of the country. It's kind of a default buying decision, to fit in with the crowd. To say, hey, I'm successful too, just like all of you.

 

Is it just me or do any of the rest of you find this kind of thinking to be repulsive? Thank God I don't live on the coast I guess because I'm not buying a car just so my peer group will better accept me. That has got to be the epitome of snobbery. Image is a big deal? lol Here's an idea, how about we say, being a real person and who you really are is a big deal and not what everyone else says you should be? How about that?

[jpd80]

I really want to but by the time I buy another car the Ford brand will not have a luxury player.

 

My first car was a mustang, I went to college, and now I'm making great money in a professional career. Within the next year I will have to buy a new car that looks professional as well. If Ford sells LR/Jag will they have anything that looks professional? Nope. Lincoln doesn't cut it as luxury and anything with a blue oval surely doesn't cut it. Volvo, while nice, is too safe, too boring.

 

I am really hoping the XF looks as good as the concept because that will be my next car if it does. Too bad by then Jaguar will be owned by another company!

 

So is this the fate of Ford if they sell LR/Jaguar? They get people with a starter car and as that person progresses through life, upgrading cars, Ford hands them over to another company? Thanks for buying our Taurus, now that you want something nicer try taking a look at Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, or Jaguar. Seems like a terrible plan...

Flint: Sell Jaguar? No, not now!

 

Which do you want more, to buy a Ford owned luxury model or to buy a Jaguar/Land Rover?

Sounds to me like it's the Jaguar/Land Rover, go with your heart.

Ford will still have about a 25% stake in them if it sells.

[wescoent]

Is it just me or do any of the rest of you find this kind of thinking to be repulsive? Thank God I don't live on the coast I guess because I'm not buying a car just so my peer group will better accept me. That has got to be the epitome of snobbery. Image is a big deal? lol Here's an idea, how about we say, being a real person and who you really are is a big deal and not what everyone else says you should be? How about that?

 

Hey, that's just life around here. If you need a midsized sedan, and it's no strain on your bank account to get a 535i over a Ford Fusion, I don't see anything wrong with that. Your reasons for wanting the BMW may vary, but for most, its a combination of things. You like the way it drives, you have a good relationship with your BMW dealer, and everyone you know is getting the latest model. Everyone is judged on some level or another for the way we present ourselves, no matter where you go. Whether you care about that is your own decision.

 

You may not like snobs, but snobs are people too, and snobs are willing to ridiculously overpay to get what makes them look good, and this includes Range Rovers and Jaguar XF sports sedans. Whether Ford wants to sell to snobs is there own decision, but there's plenty of profit to be made.

 

Aren't you the same dude who doesn't like Mustangs because they're too redneck?

Edited June 17, 2007 by wescoent

[LincolnFan]

I like how he dismissed Lincoln even though it's showing much more promise than Cadillac.

[g48150]

Wow, BlackHorse. That was completely uncalled for. Customers like JM are the ones Ford can't afford to lose. Don't kid yourself. A loaded Taurus doesn't convey a "professional" image. It's just a family car. Lincoln's fall from grace has been well documented here, and I don't think it's a shock to see someone unimpressed with it. Same for Volvo. Just calling someone a snob because they don't think the same way you do is nothing short of reactionary and unconstructive. Do you think that all BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Audi buyers are snobs? If you do, I think it says more about you then luxury market customers at large.

 

BlackHorse = Richard Jenson, but I'd have thought you people would have picked up on that by now...

[RichardJensen]

BlackHorse = Richard Jenson, but I'd have thought you people would have picked up on that by now...

GOOD LORD!

 

I am one of, what? maybe three people on this board that posts under his given name, and you STILL can't spell it right?

 

Hello! CUT AND PASTE.

 

Man alive.

[LincolnFan]

Richard is a er... a person from the southern states? Would have never guessed.

[ANTAUS]

I understand where JM is coming from and I agree with him. It's not a "little people" issue, unless you feel automatically self conscience at a status level to think other wise, only the Jones' feel that way....BUT yes, people do wish to grow into luxury brands as they get older. Don't put people don't because they aspire for better things, whereas others will settle.

 

I'm on my 3rd Lincoln LS, 4th Lincoln, and from the preliminary information being discussed, it doesn't seem as if Ford will have something in the future for myself either. Being on my 3rd LS I've been giving Ford MORE than enough chance to build something else to grow into that suits my needs, and at this point, they have about 1-2 years left to do so.

 

If the XF is a success, then most probably that will be my next purchase whomever may own it at the time. The MKS could be a player too depending on other factors. Other than that, it'll be BMW (then pay to replace the lighting on garrish red instruments and get a good warranty).

[BlackHorse]

BlackHorse = Richard Jenson, but I'd have thought you people would have picked up on that by now...

 

 

LMAO, Oh boy that was good one. Uh, no, not even close g48150. In fact I'm not sure how you even make that connection given that Richard and I don't see eye to eye on plenty of issues.

[BlackHorse]

I understand where JM is coming from and I agree with him. It's not a "little people" issue, unless you feel automatically self conscience at a status level to think other wise, only the Jones' feel that way....BUT yes, people do wish to grow into luxury brands as they get older. Don't put people don't because they aspire for better things, whereas others will settle.

 

I'm on my 3rd Lincoln LS, 4th Lincoln, and from the preliminary information being discussed, it doesn't seem as if Ford will have something in the future for myself either. Being on my 3rd LS I've been giving Ford MORE than enough chance to build something else to grow into that suits my needs, and at this point, they have about 1-2 years left to do so.

 

If the XF is a success, then most probably that will be my next purchase whomever may own it at the time. The MKS could be a player too depending on other factors. Other than that, it'll be BMW (then pay to replace the lighting on garrish red instruments and get a good warranty).

 

There's a big difference between aspiring for something better because it's what you want and buying something because you think it's going to impress other people. When you guys can figure that out then we can have an adult level conversation. But then you'll understand what I'm talking about so there won't be any need for that conversation. Just because I can afford a BMW 3 series doesn't mean I should automatically buy one to impress my friends and co-workers. That's called shallow. Now, if I happen to really like the BMW 3 series and I'm buying it for me because of that and not because I feel the need to portray some "professional" image to everyone, that's an altogether different thing.

Aren't you the same dude who doesn't like Mustangs because they're too redneck?

 

No, I'm the same dude that doesn't like them because I don't much care for the retro theme. Regardless of their body design Mustangs will always attract rednecks, that's just a part of the following. Be sure not to skip over the fact that I've owned a Mustang myself.

[suv_guy_19]

Be sure not to skip over the fact that I've owned a Mustang myself.

 

Facts....what do those have to do with anything.

[FordBuyer]

I understand where JM is coming from and I agree with him. It's not a "little people" issue, unless you feel automatically self conscience at a status level to think other wise, only the Jones' feel that way....BUT yes, people do wish to grow into luxury brands as they get older. Don't put people don't because they aspire for better things, whereas others will settle.

 

I'm on my 3rd Lincoln LS, 4th Lincoln, and from the preliminary information being discussed, it doesn't seem as if Ford will have something in the future for myself either. Being on my 3rd LS I've been giving Ford MORE than enough chance to build something else to grow into that suits my needs, and at this point, they have about 1-2 years left to do so.

 

If the XF is a success, then most probably that will be my next purchase whomever may own it at the time. The MKS could be a player too depending on other factors. Other than that, it'll be BMW (then pay to replace the lighting on garrish red instruments and get a good warranty).

 

Where were all these Jaguar buyers over last 20 years or so that Ford has owned it? Jaguar has hardly any sales left at all over last few years. Every month Jaguar sales are down something like 50%. If Ford could get money approaching what Daimler sold Chrysler for, not a bad deal IMO. Looks to me like potential Jaguar buyers see too much of Ford in Jaguar at present. Maybe it's best for Jaguar and Ford to part ways if the price is right. Then maybe Ford can concentrate on bringing out some really nice new products like Interceptor and MKR. Jaguar has absorbed a lot of Ford money and returned nothing over many years. If Ford can get a lot of money for this company, then I say take the money and run and invest it wisely in new products for North America.