mustang84isu Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Someone over at GMI claims to have insider knowledge of a Mercury phase-out plan that would eliminate the brand by 2012. I did a search here and didn't find any recent threads on this subject, so I was just wondering if his info holds any water or if its just another one of the other 1,835 rumors "from a friend who has an uncle who knows somebody that works at Ford" on what is going to be done with Mercury. I like the Mercury brand and would hate to see it go. http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50174 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Someone over at GMI claims to have insider knowledge of a Mercury phase-out plan that would eliminate the brand by 2012. I did a search here and didn't find any recent threads on this subject, so I was just wondering if his info holds any water or if its just another one of the other 1,835 rumors "from a friend who has an uncle who knows somebody that works at Ford" on what is going to be done with Mercury. I like the Mercury brand and would hate to see it go. http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50174 I hope not, I think the Mercury brands simply look better than the Ford Brands. I really do not like he new three bar grill that Ford is splapping on everything. Mercury allows you to get a little nicer Ford for not too much extra money. It also let you drive a vehicle that is a little less common. On the other hand the Lincoln brand is price way too high VS it's Ford counter parts in my opinion. For example it is hard to justify the price difference between a loaded Edge and MKX in my opinion. I am also not too crazy about Lincoln styling. The grill on the MKX looks a little too busy ( do not know how else to say it ) I do however like the look of the MKZ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 How I see it is, the Grand Marquis has the largest retail sale numbers from the Panther platform. Plus a very loyal customer base. As we have heard, that platform might die around that period, therefore it would look as if that is the plan. And really, only because we haven't seen any visual proof that they are willing to inject Mercury with new products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Ford cannot shrink to profitability. That is the ideaology that they seem they have. They can't just run away from every segment. They don't have the resources now to fix mercry but it doesn't cost much to do half ass dress ups of Fords that will keep mercury a float until ford has the resources. Unfortunately Ford took that route with Lincoln and has left mercury no where to go, especially with lincoln and mercury having the combined dealerships. Once new lincolns roll out that aren't just ford's with a new interior is ligh fixtures, then that will leave mercury a spot to actually stay alive until ford has the resouces to invest into mercury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Plus, there's only so much Ford can shrink to. Take away fleet sales, and it's case is even smaller. There has to be a magical sales number where Mercury is no long a valid alternative, but at the same time, getting rid of Mercury will leave more monetary resources available, but will unless they don't inject new products into Lincoln, the joint L/M dealerships will be hard pressed to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Ultimately I think Mullaly want to concentrate on just one or two brands. Namely Ford and maybe Lincoln. He's not said to be a fan of PAG and if he really is the business type who thinks less is more then I think it's likely that Mercury or Lincoln will die. Probaby Mercury. This is what happens when you let an airplane man try and run a car company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 The Mercury brand was dropped in Canada a few years ago. While the brand has made an incredible come back in the past couple of years, I think it is currently in a wait and see mode. First Ford needs to unload Jaguar and Land Rover. If things keep going down hill, Mercury could get the ax, but I don't believe that anything is for certain as of now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang84isu Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) To Antaus: Yeah, I feel the same way. You just can't walk away from 200,000 customers like GM did with Oldsmobile. I can't imagine that Ford spends that much money on a brand that is mostly rebadges anyway...they should just hang onto it until the time comes that they can give some serious effort into differentiating it. I'm one of the weird ones that if Ford would build a new Mercury Cougar, I would buy it just to be different even though I'm a huge Mustang fan. I'm sure Mercury buyers are the same way. They have built an image as the "techy and trendy" urban brand within Ford and it seems to be resonating with the types of people who buy them. Plus, Mercury scores well on JD Powers and other auto rating sites. For Ford just to walk away now would be a mistake. Edited July 15, 2007 by mustang84isu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) Ultimately I think Mullaly want to concentrate on just one or two brands. Namely Ford and maybe Lincoln. He's not said to be a fan of PAG and if he really is the business type who thinks less is more then I think it's likely that Mercury or Lincoln will die. Probaby Mercury. This is what happens when you let an airplane man try and run a car company. TStang, I've been reliably informed that Alan Mulally did not rush to sell Jaguar or PAG last year, that was part of Ford's "Way Forward" plan hatched before he arrived at Ford. He actually wanted Ford to keep Jaguar and PAG if at all possible so, maybe the figures just don't add up anymore. If the advice of Merrill Lynch is to sell Jaguar and Land Rover and the Board agrees, he is legally bound to do that. It has nothing to do with being an aeroplane man, just sound business principles. Edited July 15, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 TStang,I've been reliably informed that Alan Mulally did not rush to sell Jaguar or PAG last year, that was part of Ford's "Way Forward" plan hatched before he arrived at Ford. He actually wanted Ford to keep Jaguar and PAG if at all possible so, maybe the figures just don't add up anymore. If the advice of Merrill Lynch is to sell Jaguar and Land Rover and the Board agrees, he is legally bound to do that. It has nothing to do with being an aeroplane man, just sound business principles. All the press here are saying Mullaly is driving the breakup and that FOE are openly hostile to it. For this reason I think FOE will use their board members to look at whether in the light of a PAG breakup Lincoln and Mercury should also be closed or sold (if that's even possible). I fear for Mercury. 'cos the knives are out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 The Mercury brand was dropped in Canada a few years ago. IIRC, the GM is still available at Canadian Ford dealers, because the CV is fleet-only. Canuck Mercury dealers were eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I can hardly imagine Ford without a Mercury brand, but then again who would have thought 15 years ago there would be no more Oldsmobile or Plymouth. The Grand Marquis is a staple of Mercury and its an endangered species. What does that say for Mercury? Montego...err...Sable will always take a backseat to Taurus. Likewise with Mountaineer and Milan. Mercury just is not a very strong division. Ford needs to inject some individuality in the brand and I think they ought to revive some interest. How about a new Cougar? How about a Mercury Eight? Roll some creative ideas for Mercury or it will eventually wither on the vine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 While the brand has made an incredible come back in the past couple of years, I think it is currently in a wait and see mode. Dropping to less than half of what they sold less than a decade ago and having no future products in the pipe-line is "making an incredible comeback" I am suprised Mercury still sells the number they do and I think ford has an opportunity here. Ford needs to be a full-line automaker with brands that cover the segments............who would of thought 10 years ago toyota would be a much bigger presence in America than Ford.......unfortunateluy with ford leaving segments and selling off brands...........that is what the future looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 IF, Lincoln is allowed to pair with other brands, such as Volvo (I know one dealer I did business with in FTL), then I see it viable. But since Ford is shedding brands, that route won't work. IF Lincoln, can sustain sales of 200K a year, of profittable vehicles that people want, THEN maybe they can shed Mercury in those joint dealerships. I mean think of it, my guestimate is a good share of Mercury buyers were probably in the Lincoln showroom looking at a Town Car, then the salesman said "Well since maybe the price is out of your range, you COULD try the Grand Marquis, it's really the same vehicle". Same with Milan=Zephyr (except for engine) And that was the case for years when Aviator/Mountaineer and a few others co-existed side by side. Really, it wasn't till the LS that it allowed Lincoln to actually have something that Mercury or Ford (Save 2 seater Tbird) didn't really have. But thats a whole other topic we don't need to get into now. In essense, I don't see Lincoln surviving if Mercury isn't around. And it's really more about the actually dealerships themselves who have joint brands together... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 The basic argument is this: For every development dollar spent, you'll see a greater return on either a Ford product or a Lincoln product when compared to a Mercury product. Ford/Lincoln returns > Mercury returns Until that equation can be changed Mercury will NOT be receiving new, unique products. And if it is only rebadges, what's the point? This isn't an "airplane guy" thing, it's a "making money" thing. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boegey Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Mercury allows you to get a little nicer Ford for not too much extra money. I know the base price of the Ford is less than Mercury but sometimes the Mercury is less than the Ford. For example, I just bought my wife an '07 Mercury Mountaineer AWD V-8 Premier (basically it has all the options except the rear seat entertainment system). Using the Ford web sites, I attempted to build a comparable Explorer Limited and an optioned up Explorer Eddie Bauer. My Mountaineer stickered for $38,000 and change while the Limited stickered around $42,000 and the optioned up Eddie Bauer stickered for more than $43,000. I'm not sure why Ford does this but it saved me 4 -5 grand. Boegey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boegey Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 For example it is hard to justify the price difference between a loaded Edge and MKX in my opinion. I am also not too crazy about Lincoln styling. Before getting the wife the Mountaineer, we also looked at Edges and MKX's too. Why does the Vista roof on the Ford cost (if my memory serves me correctly from Ford's build web site) around $1200 and the exact same vista roof in the Lincoln cost around $1800? This is only one example of identical options having different price tags. All I can figure is that Ford feels they can gouge the Lincoln buyer a little more due to Lincoln buyers generally earning more income than the Ford buyer. Boegey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue II Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 All the press here are saying Mullaly is driving the breakup and that FOE are openly hostile to it. For this reason I think FOE will use their board members to look at whether in the light of a PAG breakup Lincoln and Mercury should also be closed or sold (if that's even possible). I fear for Mercury. 'cos the knives are out.. It doesn't work that way. Bill Ford is chairman of Ford and Mullaly is CEO. FOE is not a seperate enterprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g48150 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Well, from the Way Forward sheets that they distributed to employees last year Mercury's target customer is A Savvy Individualist. They were building Mercury up to be the urban-mobile, with all the electronic gadgetry that you'd find in a higher-end car with a lower end price. The taglines were Mercury Metro Cool, Lincoln American Dream, and Ford Red, White, and Bold. So as for killing Mercury, I dunno, but putting all the Lincoln electronics in a Ford and branding it a Mercury, I'm pretty sure that's already been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Well getting back to the topic at hand..Mercury's Future doesn't look good...the Sable X was canned, and there was no Milan at the Future product preview, when the next gen Fusion and MKZ was there. I'm willing to bet that the Mariner and Sable are the last new Mercury's we'll see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68Cougar Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Same thing will happen here that happened in Canada. LM dealers will become Ford/Lincoln dealers, the Crown Victoria will be fleet only, and the GM will become the "Ford" Grand Marquis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) Same thing will happen here that happened in Canada. LM dealers will become Ford/Lincoln dealers, the Crown Victoria will be fleet only, and the GM will become the "Ford" Grand Marquis. The GM is still a Mercury in Canada and not a Ford. Matthew Edited July 15, 2007 by matthewq4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68Cougar Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 The GM is still a Mercury in Canada and not a Ford. Matthew Hence the quotes Matthew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 The basic argument is this: For every development dollar spent, you'll see a greater return on either a Ford product or a Lincoln product when compared to a Mercury product. Don't forget to add in marketing and sales costs ! I'll bet that costs more than the engineering of a few bits of exterior and interior trim. The biggest issue is what to do with the dealers. They paid big $$$ for a LM franchise. Is Lincoln strong enough to "go it alone" ? I certainly will never pay the "premium" just to get a Lincoln name plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000SableWagon Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Don't forget to add in marketing and sales costs ! I'll bet that costs more than the engineering of a few bits of exterior and interior trim. The biggest issue is what to do with the dealers. They paid big $$$ for a LM franchise. Is Lincoln strong enough to "go it alone" ? I certainly will never pay the "premium" just to get a Lincoln name plate. Ford need to trim the herd as far as dealers go. Maybe this is part of the grand scheme, although I will be sad to see Mercury go, as I often prefer the upscale look of Mercury. Also having Mercury means that there is an alternative to bold Ford look (not for everyone), that might get an otherwise Honda or Toyota sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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