silvrsvt Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I really don't think its that. American cars have a stigma, that in some cases is not deserved. Really? LOL I totally agree with you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Really? LOL I totally agree with you... Thanks peanut gallery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Hatchet Job? I dunno. •It has optional all-wheel drive. If you just want a nice, big car, get a Toyota Avalon or Buick Lucerne. But if you want one that will perform well in bad weather, your choices are Taurus and some Chrysler products. Others are sized down or priced up from Taurus. •It has no-hassle usability. Climb in, turn the key, drive. Open the trunk and pour in a month's worth of groceries without evicting soccer and golf gear. Pack kids three-across in back, flip down the optional DVD screen to pre-empt "are-we-there-yets," and drive in peace. Nail the gas and go, bad weather or good. •It's bargain-priced by today's standards. With every factory-installed option, it's a tick under $34,000. As part of converting the Five Hundred to the born-again Taurus, Ford admirably upped the oomph a whopping 30% to 263 horsepower while boosting fuel economy, too, and replaced the CVT with a more palatable six-speed automatic. •It's full size, which you don't find much in a family sedan. Very pleasant to have the extra room, especially because it's in a package that's relatively trim outside. You don't feel as if you're piloting the Queen Mary. Ford brags that Taurus is the safest sedan, based on top crash-test scores from the federal National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the private Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. The IIHS "Top Safety Pick" rating applies only if the Taurus has optional stability control, though. The nearly identical Mercury Sable gets the same rating. (IMHO just make it standard) •The styling on the Five Hundred that looked titillatingly Audi-ish, on the Taurus at least has that same attractive silhouette. You need size and traction. You don't care for thrills behind the wheel; your blood pressure and heart rate are high enough already. Your idea of automotive excellence involves a quiet interior and predictable overall behavior. It's never occurred to you to seek pleasure by sitting in, looking at or fooling with your car. Step right up. Taurus could be your new best friend. Doesn't sound that negative to me, other than complaining about the plasti-chrome (which everyone uses anyway), and conservative driving dynamics (but it's designed for conservative families). The same could be said of the aformentioned Lucerne and Avalon. Sounds like what it is: a well priced, safe, roomy, comfortable, well powered....family sedan. I would love to see a diesel option in this car. I for one really do not believe those mileage figures on the window of any new car. Under real life conditions, they are always lower, however with a diesel, you get about a 40% improvement in MPG and less maintenance for $1500 more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 How is Ford going to do that overnight? Thats the problem...they have their past working against them How about keep producing a quality product that is bulletproof. So far Ford seems to be doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I would love to see a diesel option in this car. I for one really do not believe those mileage figures on the window of any new car. Under real life conditions, they are always lower, however with a diesel, you get about a 40% improvement in MPG and less maintenance for $1500 more. When can you get a diesel for only $1500 more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 When can you get a diesel for only $1500 more? Fantasyland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 According to THIS price list from Europe, it costs roughly $700 U.S. to upgrade from a 2.0 Duratec to a 1.8 TDCi in a 3 door Focus. Europe = Fantasyland. Your US money is no good there. You can't upgrade for $700 US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) MY2007 Ford Focus 2,0 145 hp 4 dr sedan manual 275 900 EEK Ford Focus 1,8 TDCi 115 hp 4 dr sedan manual 283 900 EEK Difference 8,000 EEK into USD690.00 Pricing sourced from Ford Estonia website http://www.ford.ee/uusfocus_hinnakiri Pricing listed above includes 18 percent VAT and is on the road price MY2008 Ford Mondeo 2,0 145hp manual sedan 324900 EEK Ford Mondeo 1,8TDCi 100hp manual sedan 333900 EEK Difference 9,000 EEK into USD776.00 Pricing sourced from Ford Estonia website http://www.ford.ee/mondeo_2007_hinnakiri Pricing listed above includes 18 percent VAT and is on the road price EEK = Estonia Krooni 1 EEK = 0.0861930 USD 1 USD = 11.6019 EEK http://www.xe.com/ucc/ Why do you write Europe = Fantasyland and USD are no good in Europe? Edited August 22, 2007 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 MY2007Ford Focus 2,0 145 hp 4 dr sedan manual 275 900 EEK Ford Focus 1,8 TDCi 115 hp 4 dr sedan manual 283 900 EEK Difference 8,000 EEK into USD690.00 Pricing sourced from Ford Estonia website http://www.ford.ee/uusfocus_hinnakiri Pricing listed about includes 18 percent VAT and is on the road price MY2008 Ford Mondeo 2,0 145hp manual sedan 324900 EEK Ford Mondeo 1,8TDCi 100hp manual sedan 333900 EEK Difference 9,000 EEK into USD776.00 Pricing sourced from Ford Estonia website http://www.ford.ee/mondeo_2007_hinnakiri Pricing listed about includes 18 percent VAT and is on the road price EEK = Estonia Krooni 1 EEK = 0.0861930 USD 1 USD = 11.6019 EEK http://www.xe.com/ucc/ Why do you write Europe = Fantasyland and USD are no good in Europe? Mainly because European governments subsidized diesels and diesel fuel, and the very high diesel sales allow Ford to recover the fixed costs of development and manufacture very quickly, and therefore, can charge less for each individual upgrade. Kind of like how Henry Ford dropped the price of the Model T over the years after he recovered the fixed costs of development. Those factors simply do not apply in the US. Americans HATE diesels, unless your name is Buck or Ted, and you drive an F-450 Dually on your ranch. Mercedes is eating the HUGE losses on importing the Bluetec diesels in the E-Class to make them more affordable, and Americans are STILL rejecting them. Not to mention all the TDI Golfs, Jettas, and Passats rotting on VW lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Mainly because European governments subsidized diesels and diesel fuel, and the very high diesel sales allow Ford to recover the fixed costs of development and manufacture very quickly, and therefore, can charge less for each individual upgrade. Kind of like how Henry Ford dropped the price of the Model T over the years after he recovered the fixed costs of development. Those factors simply do not apply in the US. Americans HATE diesels, unless your name is Buck or Ted, and you drive an F-450 Dually on your ranch. Mercedes is eating the HUGE losses on importing the Bluetec diesels in the E-Class to make them more affordable, and Americans are STILL rejecting them. Not to mention all the TDI Golfs, Jettas, and Passats rotting on VW lots. Very nice post, but my post was in reference to RJ's "You can't upgrade for $700 US." What you can or cannot do or like or dislike in the USA is nice to know. So were I live you can upgrade from a 2.0l Focus to a 1.8 TDCi Focus for approximately USD700.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalepsy Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I don't see the facination with diesels. Here in NJ, diesel cost just as much if not more than regular and availability is limited. Diesel cars will certainly be more expensive, and once the demand goes up, the fuel cost will certainly be much more than regular since our refinery capabilities are limited. Any efficiency savings would be wipped out. Why would we want diesels? Mainly because European governments subsidized diesels and diesel fuel, and the very high diesel sales allow Ford to recover the fixed costs of development and manufacture very quickly, and therefore, can charge less for each individual upgrade. Kind of like how Henry Ford dropped the price of the Model T over the years after he recovered the fixed costs of development. Those factors simply do not apply in the US. Americans HATE diesels, unless your name is Buck or Ted, and you drive an F-450 Dually on your ranch. Mercedes is eating the HUGE losses on importing the Bluetec diesels in the E-Class to make them more affordable, and Americans are STILL rejecting them. Not to mention all the TDI Golfs, Jettas, and Passats rotting on VW lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) When can you get a diesel for only $1500 more? IF MB can do it so can Ford. In fact they do it for $1000 Edited August 22, 2007 by mlhm5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) I don't see the facination with diesels. Here in NJ, diesel cost just as much if not more than regular and availability is limited. Diesel cars will certainly be more expensive, and once the demand goes up, the fuel cost will certainly be much more than regular since our refinery capabilities are limited. Any efficiency savings would be wipped out. Why would we want diesels? Diesels are cost effective. Diesel engines need less maintenance, diesel engines burn 40% less fuel to cover the same distance, diesel engines last longer, diesel engines have more torque at a lower rpm. The new diesels available in Europe account for approximately 50% of new car purchases and diesel fuel, although cheaper, the difference is sometimes none at all like in Germany, Switzerland and the UK. Diesel v. Unleaded Prices in Europe In other words, diesel is a smarter choice than gasoline. Ever see any big trucks with gasoline engines? For those of you who think diesel is slow, well the BMW M5 is slower than the BMW 535d and still gets 35mpg combined. Remember Audi won two Sebrings with diesels. 535d 535d Top Gear Edited August 22, 2007 by mlhm5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenCaylor Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I don't see the facination with diesels. Here in NJ, diesel cost just as much if not more than regular and availability is limited. Diesel cars will certainly be more expensive, and once the demand goes up, the fuel cost will certainly be much more than regular since our refinery capabilities are limited. Any efficiency savings would be wipped out. Why would we want diesels? Here in California, diesel is quite a bit more than premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Diesels are cost effective. Diesel engines need less maintenance, diesel engines burn 40% less fuel to cover the same distance, diesel engines last longer, diesel engines have more torque at a lower rpm. I wouldn't say Diesels need less maintenance...ever see how much an oil change costs on a full size deisel pick up vs a gasser? Its something like 15 quarts of Oil vs 6 in a gas V8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I wouldn't say Diesels need less maintenance...ever see how much an oil change costs on a full size deisel pick up vs a gasser? Its something like 15 quarts of Oil vs 6 in a gas V8 Maybe you are referring to large diesel engines, however the now defunct diesel Jeep Liberty held 6.3 quarts. I change my oil every 3K miles anyway, so it would cost me an extra quart or so of oil. Other than changing the fuel filter every 15K and the glow plugs every three years, that's all there is to engine maintenance. Never have to tune them up and the exhaust system lasts forever. Very durable. Not uncommon at all to have a diesel engine with 400K miles. I had 3 Audi diesels, a 1980, a 1981 and a 1983 and they were driven 80K a year. One had 420K when I sold it. 600+ miles to a tank of fuel and 39mpg on the road, way back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Here in California, diesel is quite a bit more than premium. Same as premium. Search for the cheapest prices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) Why do you write Europe = Fantasylandand USD are no good in Europe? Because from a practical standpoint, in the United States, it doesn't mean anything what you can or can't do in Europe, and how much it costs... Let me use alcohol for a metaphor. You can sit in a bar and drink beer. You cannot sit on a sidewalk and drink beer (at least not in most cities in the U.S.). What's the difference? LOCATION. As far as the U.S. is concerned, it doesn't matter that you can upgrade for $700 in Europe. That's Europe. Unlike Canada, Europe is not part of the U.S. --- Oh, and why not try paying for lunch at your favorite pub in Edinburgh with a good old American sawbuck and see how far it gets you. Edited August 22, 2007 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) IF MB can do it so can Ford. Then by that logic, Ford should also have a standard sunroof, burl walnut, navigation system, and a 7 speed transmission in the Taurus. Edited August 22, 2007 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Then by that logic, Ford should also have a standard sunroof, burl walnut, navigation system, and a 7 speed transmission in the Taurus. It is going to take the public a while to believe Ford has changed any from the old Taurus. They just had the 3.6 recall this month. Buyers weigh all the press, have full access to the internet, and probably rule out cars before they even go shopping no matter what the cost. The problem with the new Taurus is that the name is associated with a car that was a failure and the new one does not have a history. Buyers want more for their $30K than company spin on a new car, they want proof of reliability, safety, and resale value to name a few. No one wants to spend ~$30K on a car and find out that just by driving it off the lot you lost more than the guy who bought the Toyota, Honda, etc. Renting cars from Avis and Hertz in the past years has cured me of ever buying anything with the name "Taurus" on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 It is going to take the public a while to believe Ford has changed any from the old Taurus. They just had the 3.6 recall this month. Buyers weigh all the press, have full access to the internet, and probably rule out cars before they even go shopping no matter what the cost. The problem with the new Taurus is that the name is associated with a car that was a failure and the new one does not have a history. Buyers want more for their $30K than company spin on a new car, they want proof of reliability, safety, and resale value to name a few. No one wants to spend ~$30K on a car and find out that just by driving it off the lot you lost more than the guy who bought the Toyota, Honda, etc. Renting cars from Avis and Hertz in the past years has cured me of ever buying anything with the name "Taurus" on it. The Taurus was a failure? It's only one the best-selling cars of all time. It died from neglect in the end, but that certainly doesn't make it a failure on any level. By the time the Taurus fell way behind the competition, most retail buyers weren't buying them anyway to have bad ownership experiences. Most retail experiences with the Taurus are from the more successful generations between 87 and 93 which, by and large, were much better vehicles compared to their competition at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 It is going to take the public a while to believe Ford has changed any from the old Taurus. They just had the 3.6 recall this month. Buyers weigh all the press, have full access to the internet, and probably rule out cars before they even go shopping no matter what the cost. The problem with the new Taurus is that the name is associated with a car that was a failure and the new one does not have a history. Buyers want more for their $30K than company spin on a new car, they want proof of reliability, safety, and resale value to name a few. No one wants to spend ~$30K on a car and find out that just by driving it off the lot you lost more than the guy who bought the Toyota, Honda, etc. Renting cars from Avis and Hertz in the past years has cured me of ever buying anything with the name "Taurus" on it. a recall due to a cruise control switch won't effect Ford at all......if it were "sludge "in an engine, or snapping camshafts or bad Crash tests it would be different.....hmmmm, wonder where the press went with those stories....oh thats right, the imports have mind boggling damage control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 a recall due to a cruise control switch won't effect Ford at all......if it were "sludge "in an engine, or snapping camshafts or bad Crash tests it would be different.....hmmmm, wonder where the press went with those stories....oh thats right, the imports have mind boggling damage control I'm not so sure its the imports' mind boggling damage control so much as the domestics' mind boggling LACK of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I'm not so sure its the imports' mind boggling damage control so much as the domestics' mind boggling LACK of it. Possibly, but the press seemingly has it in for ford moreso than any of the domestics......can you IMAGINE if it was Ford that had the sludge problem?.........reminds me wheres Tommy been lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 No one wants to spend ~$30K on a car and find out that just by driving it off the lot you lost more than the guy who bought the Toyota, Honda, etc. Uh yeah, and maybe you should take a look at the 3 year depreciation on an '08 Taurus before you type stuff like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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