Freshened Focus will debut at Frankfurt

[Biker16]

Your missing the point I was trying to make..the C1 has been over hyped so much by people on the internet when the C2 makes it to the US, its not going to fundamental mentaly change Focus sales as people make it out to be.

 

As for the Focus making it unscathed from Europe to the States, I doubt it very much since the C1 in Europe occupies the same slot unit sales wise as a mid-sized sedan in North America and a similar price point, where in the US it will need to sell in the 15-20K USD range vs 18-25K Range that the C1 Does.

 

The issue of price.

 

focus is selling for 10-15k right now, not 15-20k. 10-15k is not profitable for a C-Car there is no way around that fact.

 

What our esteemed CEO knows that you don't. there isn't as much of a difference between here and there. which was why the 2000 focus was successful in the first place and sold at profitable price point until....

 

lowering the content in the 2005 focus to meet a lower price point, was a failure. the 2008 focus tries to fix that, by adding more content and offering more at a higher price point. the cost of which is greater than simply using the C1 architecture in 2005.

 

as others have stated we can't do anything about it now, but please do not go revising the past.

 

focus on what the buyer want in 2011.

My feeling is that if people like the fiesta styling we may see a more euro and less americanized C-car.

[silvrsvt]

What our esteemed CEO knows that you don't. there isn't as much of a difference between here and there. which was why the 2000 focus was successful in the first place and sold at profitable price point until....

 

 

Come on don't be rewriting the history books here, The Focus was in trouble ever since it launched...guess you convientely forgot about all the 13 or so recalls over the first year or so that

Focus had and the numbers fell like a rock afterwards due to its bad reputation. Then starting in 2001, we had our run of 0% financing and what not that cut into profits. I find it really hard to swallow that the car was profitable at all...I read SEVERAL articles that stated that Ford needed to build the car (C170 platform) for 10 years so they could make money off it.

 

Anyways, its all a moot point, they finally have someone in that figured out that the status que needs to go and build the damn car some place where they can make a profit on it. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the Focus go back to Mexico or futher south so they can make money on it.

[RichardJensen]

watered down to mediocre status as per FoAmerica's brillance.

What about FoE's 'brilliance' of resting on its laurels and following up well received originals with unimpressive and late arriving second editions?

 

(Sierra, Escort, Fiesta, Scorpio, Mondeo)

 

I mean, FoE went from over a 25% market share to under 10%; compare that with Ford NA's drop from 28% to 14%.... In 1978, Ford had 20% of the global market. Not all of that decline has come from the U.S.

 

Oh, that's right. We're just talking about what's going on -right now-

 

No wait, we're not talking about what's going on right now. We're talking about what was going on three years ago.

 

Get into the present.

Edited September 3, 2007 by RichardJensen

[MKII]

What about FoE's 'brilliance' of resting on its laurels and following up well received originals with unimpressive and late arriving second editions?

 

(Sierra, Escort, Fiesta, Scorpio, Mondeo)

 

I mean, FoE went from over a 25% market share to under 10%; compare that with Ford NA's drop from 28% to 14%.... In 1978, Ford had 20% of the global market. Not all of that decline has come from the U.S.

 

Oh, that's right. We're just talking about what's going on -right now-

 

No wait, we're not talking about what's going on right now. We're talking about what was going on three years ago.

 

Get into the present.

 

At least right now I drive what I think are the best Ford vehicles, yes "right now". I am a consumer not some back room number cruncher worried about market share, making excuses everyday, waiting for 20?? . You seem to be the one stuck in the past, hope you are enjoying it.

[focus05]

No one has actually even driven the new Focus whose body was stiffened, suspension updated, NVH reduced and engine improved, and yet we've crucified it and call each other names over it. It's true that the outside is a bit garrish (mostly the side vents) and it lacks some needed features (rear headrests, 5-speed or 6-speed auto) and models (hatches, ST), but none of those are actually related to the numbers C170 and C1. Our U.S. designers could have made a Euro look alike on this improved C170. But, the C1 proper was out pretty much from the start because of the ability to make it and sell it profitably here.

 

One of the key factors that I think everyone forgets is that Ford had to be able to produce something here in the U.S. without huge losses. The Focus in Mexico is built with cheap labor, but our Focus had to be assembled at Wayne. Producing the C1 here would have been prohibitively expensive. The Mexican Focus starts at 15.5k USD, my guess is that that would be good for 17.5k produced here in the states for a base model, and no, no one will buy that. Maybe some enthusiasts, but Ford can't run Wayne off of 5,000/month in sales.

 

Now it doesn't mean that I don't think Ford missed some opportunities with its new Focus. Exterior styling, for example, looks like it was designed for a 10 year old. The hatches should not have been dropped even if the Verve/Fiesta is only 18 months away. The interior, while a nice design, has that massive silver plastic stack. I think something more subtle and *tasteful* would have been appropriate. We should be arguing those points, but the platform? While I have doubts that they have reworked it in the best way they could have, the drivetrain, sans tranny, will be good and probably could have been the best in class and at the very least will be competitive.

 

The problem is not the C170 platform except for the envy we feel when we hear that name versus C1. The rework was not insignificant, and I expect it to be competent. The larger travesty was the design elements and fluidity (or lack of) that determined what the new Focus would look and feel like and the features here and there that were neglected - either because of cost or lack of experience with the class-leading small cars on the market.

 

I just find some of the assertions baffling. The C1 Focus is definitely a nicer car, but not just or even primarily because it is C1 - it is because it has the design and content we wanted, as enthusiasts, in the U.S. It certainly has characteristics that I had hoped would show up on our Focus. But after being derrided in 2005 for making an interesting car dull, I'm sure Ford took notice and maybe took it too far. But it's still not the platform that I have problems with, especially in its reworked for. It is the package as a whole.

[RichardJensen]

At least right now I drive what I think are the best Ford vehicles, yes "right now".

And you are making categorical statements based on those principles. Not smart.

[Biker16]

Come on don't be rewriting the history books here, The Focus was in trouble ever since it launched...guess you convientely forgot about all the 13 or so recalls over the first year or so that

Focus had and the numbers fell like a rock afterwards due to its bad reputation. Then starting in 2001, we had our run of 0% financing and what not that cut into profits. I find it really hard to swallow that the car was profitable at all...I read SEVERAL articles that stated that Ford needed to build the car (C170 platform) for 10 years so they could make money off it.

 

Anyways, its all a moot point, they finally have someone in that figured out that the status que needs to go and build the damn car some place where they can make a profit on it. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the Focus go back to Mexico or futher south so they can make money on it.

 

the 2000 focus sold very well and sold at a higher price point than the current car does.

[silvrsvt]

the 2000 focus sold very well and sold at a higher price point than the current car does.

 

 

It sold very well but it never kept those numbers up..there are pently of cars though out history that sold really well at first and where failures...

 

As for price point, care to back that up with facts? I remember reading on FJ that people where getting 2001 and 02 Models for under 15...some as low as 12K after rebates.

 

Keep in mind one year doesnt not make a car...

[MKII]

And you are making categorical statements based on those principles. Not smart.

 

Your the best at empty opinions and spewing wonderful historical info RJ, but do you know anything about well built vehicles, or you just enjoy to belittle people and their opinions. Your credibility or input when speaking of the Focus is ridiculous as I understand you drive an older model Sable. I take your impressive well written posts with a grain of salt and chuckle at your ignorance and arrogance. You still do not get it and never will because of the wee world view you exist in, at least thats what I read coming from the ends of your fingers hitting the keyboard.

Edited September 4, 2007 by MKII

[silvrsvt]

chuckle at your ignorance and arrogance.

 

 

pot meet kettle

[MKII]

pot meet kettle

At least I am a many time Focus owner on both sides of the Atlantic that I base my opinion on.

Edited September 4, 2007 by MKII

[Biker16]

No one has actually even driven the new Focus whose body was stiffened, suspension updated, NVH reduced and engine improved, and yet we've crucified it and call each other names over it. It's true that the outside is a bit garrish (mostly the side vents) and it lacks some needed features (rear headrests, 5-speed or 6-speed auto) and models (hatches, ST), but none of those are actually related to the numbers C170 and C1. Our U.S. designers could have made a Euro look alike on this improved C170. But, the C1 proper was out pretty much from the start because of the ability to make it and sell it profitably here.

 

One of the key factors that I think everyone forgets is that Ford had to be able to produce something here in the U.S. without huge losses. The Focus in Mexico is built with cheap labor, but our Focus had to be assembled at Wayne. Producing the C1 here would have been prohibitively expensive. The Mexican Focus starts at 15.5k USD, my guess is that that would be good for 17.5k produced here in the states for a base model, and no, no one will buy that. Maybe some enthusiasts, but Ford can't run Wayne off of 5,000/month in sales.

 

 

why do people think C1 is more expensive than C170?

 

All i know is that the price Dropped in Europe From C170 -> C1 the max price increased but the base price was less.

 

There is no evidence from any Current ford executives that C1 was or is more expensive. There only reason was that they did not want to invest in the tooling to build it.

 

C1 is simpler to build, than C170. needing less labor, more modular construction, built in modern,efficient,and lean assembly plants.

 

Ford does not make money not because of the platform used but because they are unwilling to invest in the manufacturing systems, that can make small cars profitably in this country. Toyota can do it, Honda does it, so can ford.

 

the issue no one mentions is that the car is being sold too cheap to ever make money, no matter here it is built.

 

It sold very well but it never kept those numbers up..there are pently of cars though out history that sold really well at first and where failures...

 

As for price point, care to back that up with facts? I remember reading on FJ that people where getting 2001 and 02 Models for under 15...some as low as 12K after rebates.

 

Keep in mind one year doesn't not make a car...

 

out the door , the 2005 focus had money on the hood.

 

excluding model year clearance

 

The focus was Rebate free for it's first 18-24 months on sale. when it was fresh and new.

 

there were more things that were done right, with the 2000 focus than were done wrong. people seem to harp on the recalls but my 2000 is running fine it just seems that everything they modified for the US has broken, door handles, ignition lock, etc.

 

2000 focus brought people into the brand.

 

 

which

[NickF1011]

The focus was Rebate free for it's first 18-24 months on sale. when it was fresh and new.

 

A Ford car with no rebates in 2000-2001??

 

[Biker16]

A Ford car with no rebates in 2000-2001??

 

 

yes it was true.

 

sold ~400,000 in North America. with no rebates

[NickF1011]

yes it was true.

 

sold ~400,000 in North America. with no rebates

 

Until I see some proof of that, I'll still be laughing.

 

Ford hasn't been able to sell 400,000 of ANYTHING without rebates for decades.

[silvrsvt]

Until I see some proof of that, I'll still be laughing.

 

Ford hasn't been able to sell 400,000 of ANYTHING without rebates for decades.

 

 

Someone is looking at history with rose colored glasses....

 

http://www.blueovalnews.com/documents/sales.2001.pdf

 

Focus 2000MY sales 286K

Focus 2001MY sales 264K

Focus 2002MY Sales 243K

Focus 2003MY Sales 229K

Focus 2004MY Sales 208K

Focus 2005MY Sales 187K!

Focus 2006MY Sales 177K

 

Lost over 110K over six years on the market..not good

[RichardJensen]

And let's not forget the 13 recalls....

[RichardJensen]

Your the best at empty opinions and spewing wonderful historical info RJ, but do you know anything about well built vehicles, or you just enjoy to belittle people and their opinions. Your credibility or input when speaking of the Focus is ridiculous as I understand you drive an older model Sable. I take your impressive well written posts with a grain of salt and chuckle at your ignorance and arrogance. You still do not get it and never will because of the wee world view you exist in, at least thats what I read coming from the ends of your fingers hitting the keyboard.

Wow. We've suddenly gone back to 3rd grade.

 

Your opinions are frequently stated as facts--only when pressed do you acknowledge that what you type is "what I think ... right now". I don't know where exactly you were taught that this is okay, because it's not.

 

There are facts and then there are opinions. Try and keep them separate.

[Edstock]

Wow. We've suddenly gone back to 3rd grade.

 

You're too kind.

[MKII]

Wow. We've suddenly gone back to 3rd grade.

 

Your opinions are frequently stated as facts--only when pressed do you acknowledge that what you type is "what I think ... right now". I don't know where exactly you were taught that this is okay, because it's not.

 

There are facts and then there are opinions. Try and keep them separate.

Please enlighten me to the "world according to RJ and RJ “Etiquette”.

Point out were my opinions are stated as facts?

Edited September 4, 2007 by MKII

[RichardJensen]

Please enlighten me to the "world according to RJ and RJ “Etiquette”.

Point out were my opinions are stated as facts?

watered down to mediocre status as per FoAmerica's brillance

 

You can't furnish any proof of that statement. It cannot, in fact, be proven. Yet how often do we see comments like this from you?

[MKII]

You can't furnish any proof of that statement. It cannot, in fact, be proven. Yet how often do we see comments like this from you?

This is my opinion based on actual ownership. No I cannot prove it, but I can base an opinion on it from my experience, whether you think it is right or wrong and BTW who are you to make the right or wrong rule.

It would be interesting to ask a person such as Derrick Kuzak if my opinion has any merits , but I suppose if he took sides with me, then you would call him biased because of were he is from. But in the world of business one in his position would have to be politcally correct and be nuetral, Mr.Mulally seems to be the only one that has the balls to say what is what.

 

"Ford needs 100 Alans, "They need people who are going to question why they do things the way they do. They need to take off the rearview mirrors and start looking out through the windshield at the road ahead and drive past the competition."(Quote from a Detrior News article.

[RichardJensen]

This is my opinion based on actual ownership.

Exactly. It's YOUR OPINION, yet you assert it to be a fact on the same order as the time of sunrise, the diameter of the Earth and other independently verifiable and established facts.

 

Do you see the difference?

 

If you had tried to turn in a research paper in college with such unsupportable claims, it would be returned with a big fat "F" on it, assuming your prof. was doing his/her job.

 

Learn the difference between the world as it is, and what you see in it.

[MKII]

Exactly. It's YOUR OPINION, yet you assert it to be a fact on the same order as the time of sunrise, the diameter of the Earth and other independently verifiable and established facts.

 

Do you see the difference?

 

If you had tried to turn in a research paper in college with such unsupportable claims, it would be returned with a big fat "F" on it, assuming your prof. was doing his/her job.

 

Learn the difference between the world as it is, and what you see in it.

Oh I didn't realize this was the school of how to judge and form opinions on ownership of the automobile. My assertion of watered down euro Fords to American Fords has nothing to do with sunrise or the other examples you write of, it has to do with my experience with the Focus, and very obvious differences of said vehicle. You want to mark my opinion as an F, I'd say you are not qualified as you have no experience with said vehicles. I do not need a professers input or judgement as well on the subject either to form my opinion.

 

You apparently do not see the difference, and want to make it into something it is not. I know what I see for certain, you need to see the world period.

Edited September 4, 2007 by MKII

[silvrsvt]

to form my opinion.

Do not confuse your opinion for fact either...