RichardJensen Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Oh I didn't realize this was the school of how to judge and form opinions on ownership of the automobile. My assertion of watered down euro Fords to American Fords has nothing to do with sunrise or the other examples you write of, it has to do with my experience with the Focus, and very obvious differences of said vehicle. You want to mark my opinion as an F, I'd say you are not qualified as you have no experience with said vehicles. I do not need a professers input or judgement as well on the subject either to form my opinion. Wow. Do you understand that there is a difference between opinions and facts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 (edited) Wow. Do you understand that there is a difference between opinions and facts? We hold these truths to be self-evident......? I guess if the truth isn't self evident, it must be suppported by facts. Edited September 4, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) Someone is looking at history with rose colored glasses.... http://www.blueovalnews.com/documents/sales.2001.pdf Focus 2000MY sales 286K Focus 2001MY sales 264K Focus 2002MY Sales 243K Focus 2003MY Sales 229K Focus 2004MY Sales 208K Focus 2005MY Sales 187K! Focus 2006MY Sales 177K Lost over 110K over six years on the market..not good you forgot about Canada and Mexico. I was looking at the actual production numbers. for Mexico and Wayne. it was between 280-290k units for Wayne and about 70-90k for Mexico. why have the focus sales fallen? stagnation As bad as the rangers or Taurus? no. Edited September 5, 2007 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 why have the focus sales fallen? stagnation Yeah. Those 13 recalls had nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) dp Edited September 5, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) Yeah. Those 13 recalls had nothing to do with it. Funny, what's the number 1 excuse the Fusion firemen always bring up? "Bububu it takes years to change or make a name in this industry (but lets forget about the Altima, Edge, etc)" By 2012, all things considered, the Focus would have been the segment-best pick, for almost eight straight years. Not a Honda, not a Mazda... a FORD. You're only vindicating them by acknowledging there was no reason, or incentive, to give Ford another chance. Stagnation indeed, as biker said. Just saying "bubuu the chickens at Dearborn were too scared to take a chance, try to understand" won't change the history books. Edited September 5, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) Just saying "bubuu the chickens at Dearborn were too scared to take a chance, try to understand" won't change the history books. Uh. Lessee. Biker's assertion was that STAGNATION ALONE (notice that he doesn't name any other cause) explains the decline in Focus volume. I would insist that stagnation AND A WELL DESERVED REPUTATION FOR ABSOLUTELY ABYSMAL QUALITY explain the decline in Focus sales. You go mention "Focus" to anyone you know that can afford one. Tell me if the first thing they say is, "Focus? It's so old!" or "Aren't they unreliable?" Edited September 5, 2007 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 won't change the history books. Well, then, what is accomplished by your whining over what Ford did 6 years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) Yeah. Those 13 recalls had nothing to do with it. You guys keep posting that number as if it proves anything but Ford of North america was a bunch of incompetent fools, those problems were fixed by the 02 model year and the Focus was one of Ford's best all around cars, figures you guys will bash what Ford does right, and defend what they do wrong. It's not the Focus that was the problem, it was Ford of NORTH AMERICA that was the problem, THEY needed to be recalled, and anybody with a brain can see that Mulally discovered what a mess Ford was and is busy fixing it. I'm surprised you haven't started a petition to bring back Nasser... Edited September 5, 2007 by Blueblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 You guys keep posting that number as if it proves anything You think that maybe, just maybe, a few people that were thinking about buying a Focus heard about all those recalls? The issue is what caused the decline in sales volume. It is not 'what was wrong with the Focus'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 You think that maybe, just maybe, a few people that were thinking about buying a Focus heard about all those recalls? The issue is what caused the decline in sales volume. It is not 'what was wrong with the Focus'. Hey, isn't it a fact that the Focus is Ford's best selling car. It outsells the Fusion. After the F-Series trucks, it just may be Ford's second best selling vehicle period. I guess we will know for sure at end of December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 those problems were fixed by the 02 model year and the Focus was one of Ford's best all around cars Guess you never saw the problems that the SVT model brought to the lineup starting in 02 huh? Your defending of how great the Focus is/was is as laughable as you bashing current Ford products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Hey, isn't it a fact that the Focus is Ford's best selling car. It outsells the Fusion. After the F-Series trucks, it just may be Ford's second best selling vehicle period. I guess we will know for sure at end of December. Using last years numbers, the Explorer was Ford's second best selling product after the F-series. As of July of this year its a race between the Escape,Focus and Econoline! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Guess you never saw the problems that the SVT model brought to the lineup starting in 02 huh? Your defending of how great the Focus is/was is as laughable as you bashing current Ford products. Many of the recalls affect 2002 and 2003 model years as well. Along with the GM X bodies, the Focus is the most recalled vehicle in history. Any assertion that this had no effect on public perception is pretty hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Guess you never saw the problems that the SVT model brought to the lineup starting in 02 huh? Your defending of how great the Focus is/was is as laughable as you bashing current Ford products. You're just upset that you got a lemon, I know many people with SVT's that have no problems at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 You're just upset that you got a lemon, I know many people with SVT's that have no problems at all. You're an exception. Can you honestly say with a straight face that SVT Focuses were well thought out quality automobiles? I generally liked SVT's products, but I liked that one the absolute least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Uh. Lessee. Biker's assertion was that STAGNATION ALONE (notice that he doesn't name any other cause) explains the decline in Focus volume. I would insist that stagnation AND A WELL DESERVED REPUTATION FOR ABSOLUTELY ABYSMAL QUALITY explain the decline in Focus sales. You go mention "Focus" to anyone you know that can afford one. Tell me if the first thing they say is, "Focus? It's so old!" or "Aren't they unreliable?" rich...i hear NOTHING but GLOWING reports about the Focus's reliability....the drivers/ owners seem to LOVE them...initially there were some minor pho pahs....but as of late the report card is all A's ala Fusion. Even the service guys are in agreement....styling is another matter.....OLD and long in the tooth are putting it mildly....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 rich...i hear NOTHING but GLOWING reports about the Focus's reliability....the drivers/ owners seem to LOVE them...initially there were some minor pho pahs....but as of late the report card is all A's ala Fusion. Even the service guys are in agreement....styling is another matter.....OLD and long in the tooth are putting it mildly....... Faux pas dammit. Faux pas!! Sorry. Anal retentive English moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 as of late the report card is all A's ala Fusion Exactly. Ford shut the barn door after the horse got out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Som now the big question is whether new Focus buyers live in the past or are prepared to give Ford another shot. I'd say depending on advertising and dealer attitude, Ford can leave the past behind, the new Focus is nothing like the early ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I have/had two Foci. I love/loved both of them. After the '00 conks out and ends up with a V8, I will probably buy another for a commuter car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Exactly. Ford shut the barn door after the horse got out. drivetrain etc is great, styling needs help as does the interior....I can tolerate the 08 ONLY knowing something better is around the corner and that the 08 is basically a stop-gap.....but whomever signed off on it deserves nothing more than a forced severence package.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 drivetrain etc is great, styling needs help as does the interior....I can tolerate the 08 ONLY knowing something better is around the corner and that the 08 is basically a stop-gap.....but whomever signed off on it deserves nothing more than a forced severence package.......... Drivetrain, while reliable, is in dire need of help. The only engine being offered for '08 is what...130 HP? Ouch. And for that low power level, it still isn't one of the most fuel-efficient small cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Drivetrain, while reliable, is in dire need of help. The only engine being offered for '08 is what...130 HP? Ouch. And for that low power level, it still isn't one of the most fuel-efficient small cars. unbreakable PZEV and 37 mpg is nothing to sneeze at.....my dad gets 35 mpgs going to mexico at 80mph........raves about that car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 unbreakable PZEV and 37 mpg is nothing to sneeze at.....my dad gets 35 mpgs going to mexico at 80mph........raves about that car Frankly, nobody cares that it is PZEV. They'd take more notice if it had horrible emissions but managed over 40 mpg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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