Freshened Focus will debut at Frankfurt

[NickF1011]

Unless of course FoAmerica plans to keep this Asian styling for the 2011/12 Focus. Now thats a scary thought.

 

 

Eh, that very much depends on what the C2 Focus looks like overall. Certain elements of the '08 Focus at least have the POTENTIAL to look good...they just appear to be relatively poorly executed in this case.

[Blueblood]

It's a friggin' refresh of a car that's almost 4 years old, not a redesign.

 

This, on the other hand, is "brand new" and is obviously the design/decision you're favoring and defending.

 

 

You're a hypocrite and have no moral authority whatsoever to judge what looks good or doesn't, but hey, I guess you and Michael Reynolds just never get tired of defending mediocrity.

 

Fact of the matter is that, almost 4 years later, the C1 Focus still anally rapes both the 2004 and 2008 FuckUs, which even Ford admits went overbudget. Basically, they'll have saved NO money when all is said and done. I get your point, though...

:bowdown:

 

Yes, thank god Ford NA was wise enough to waste hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and (well you get the point) of millions of dollars releasing two cars instead of one:

 

 

Exactly, now they are trying to say our 08 Focus disaster is better than the Euro Focus based on some picture of a test mule! How pathetic can they get?

[RichardJensen]

Yeah. Because people here refuse to call the '05 NA Focus a 'catastrophe of historic proportions', we're defenders of mediocrity.

 

Face it people, the C1 isn't coming, and the C2 is. Any further philippics on the subject are nothing more than a waste of bandwidth and sailboat fuel.

[NickF1011]

Exactly, now they are trying to say our 08 Focus disaster is better than the Euro Focus based on some picture of a test mule! How pathetic can they get?

 

Where did I say the C170 was BETTER? I just said they BOTH look underwhelming.

[silvrsvt]

The C1 Focus is the most overhyped Ford product that isn't sold in the USA. I think its gotten to the point that when the C2 does make it here that it will be so underwhelming that people will say "thats all this is about?" and the every day customer won't even notice...

[jpd80]

The C1 Focus is the most overhyped Ford product that isn't sold in the USA. I think its gotten to the point that when the C2 does make it here that it will be so underwhelming that people will say "thats all this is about?" and the every day customer won't even notice...

For the rest of the world, the switch from C170 to C1 went pretty seamless - a non-issue.

The Focus in NA was meerly a means to an end with CAFE Vs. true retail sales elsewhere.

It's North America for one reason or another that's out of step with products.

People arguing that North America is such a big market for ford that they deserve unique products.

I agree to a point but not for the whole darn range. The roll out of CD3, D3 and EUCD products still shows how deep the dysfunctionality still runs within Ford and that global platforming is still a few years off. When this happens, Ford is on a winner for sure.

Edited September 1, 2007 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

For the rest of the world, the switch from C170 to C1 went pretty seamless - a non-issue.

The Focus in NA was meerly a means to an end with CAFE Vs. true retail sales elsewhere.

It's North America for one reason or another that's out of step with products.

People arguing that North America is such a big market for ford that they deserve unique products.

I agree to a point but not for the whole darn range. The roll out of CD3, D3 and EUCD products still shows how deep the dysfunctionality still runs within Ford and that global platforming is still a few years off. When this happens, Ford is on a winner for sure.

 

 

While i agree with you, I'm tired of the C1 arguments I've been hearing in the US since 2004 or so...the "issue" will be corrected in a couple years..

[NickF1011]

The C1 Focus is the most overhyped Ford product that isn't sold in the USA. I think its gotten to the point that when the C2 does make it here that it will be so underwhelming that people will say "thats all this is about?" and the every day customer won't even notice...

 

Unfortunately, you're probably right.

[jpd80]

While i agree with you, I'm tired of the C1 arguments I've been hearing in the US since 2004 or so...the "issue" will be corrected in a couple years..

From what I'm reading the C170-2 will be on par with our C1s anyway, so all the other talk

is meerly arguing logistics and parts supply chains, which can't be done without inside knowledge.

 

Edit,

Internally, Compared to C170 and the the C1 Focus sedan is 2" wider and

is much closer to Fusion in cabin size and luggage capacity - food for thought!

Edited September 1, 2007 by jpd80

[Biker16]

From what I'm reading the C170-2 will be on par with our C1s anyway, so all the other talk

is meerly arguing logistics and parts supply chains, which can't be done without inside knowledge.

 

Edit,

Internally, Compared to C170 and the the C1 Focus sedan is 2" wider and

is much closer to Fusion in cabin size and luggage capacity - food for thought!

 

In some ways it will be. in many other it isn't. safety? no NVH? no.

 

The US has been using C1 parts since 2005.

 

The real advantage of C1 is flexibility and cost.

 

the C1 focus is nowhere near the size of the fusion. 176in vs the fusion's 190in length.

[jpd80]

the C1 focus is nowhere near the size of the fusion. 176in vs the fusion's 190in length.

 

I don't dispute the the Fusion is abigger car but,

you didn't read my post carefully,

Internally, Compared to C170 and the the C1 Focus sedan is 2" wider and

is much closer to Fusion in cabin size and luggage capacity - food for thought!

 

Shoulder width, the C1 sedan is still 2" narrower than Fusion, the rear legroom is about 2" off

but the Trunk at 18 cuft is bigger than Fusion's 15.8 cuft.

 

If Ford increased C2's width, they possibly could "Tempo" the C2 for a really cheap Fusion.

Think of the potential savings.

[LincolnFan]

I did notice my Focus has one heck of trunk, I still haven't filled since the day I bought it..

 

I don't know about the cabin space though... I don't think it's close to the Fusion. I've been in the Milan.

 

The backseat in my Focus is almost like the Mustang's backseat (ok I am exaggarating, but you get the point)

[MKII]

The C1 Focus is the most overhyped Ford product that isn't sold in the USA. I think its gotten to the point that when the C2 does make it here that it will be so underwhelming that people will say "thats all this is about?" and the every day customer won't even notice...

 

You have no idea how wrong you are. Posters here that comment on the C1 Focus, never seen or touched or driven the car are so out to lunch. Being an owner of 3 C170 North American produced , and now owning a 2007 C1 Euro Focus, the difference is night and day.Even my wife who never has anything to say about our cars, has mentioned many times the big difference between these cars, both in handling, appearance and solidness. She says this new Focus reminds her of our Volvo S60.

 

So do not concern yourself with the C2 being a disappointment, it will impress. As long as FoAmerican can leave the important bits alone and not soften it up too much or de-fortitude it if you know what I mean. But I fear this is what will happen and it will be again watered down to mediocre status as per FoAmerica's brillance.

Edited September 2, 2007 by MKII

[silvrsvt]

You have no idea how wrong you are. Posters here that comment on the C1 Focus, never seen or touched or driven the car are so out to lunch. Being an owner of 3 C170 North American produced , and now owning a 2007 C1 Euro Focus, the difference is night and day.Even my wife who never has anything to say about our cars, has mentioned many times the big difference between these cars, both in handling, appearance and solidness. She says this new Focus reminds her of our Volvo S60.

 

So do not concern yourself with the C2 being a disappointment, it will impress. As long as FoAmerican can leave the important bits alone and not soften it up too much or de-fortitude it if you know what I mean. But I fear this is what will happen and it will be again watered down to mediocre status as per FoAmerica's brillance.

 

 

Your missing the point I was trying to make..the C1 has been over hyped so much by people on the internet when the C2 makes it to the US, its not going to fundamental mentaly change Focus sales as people make it out to be.

 

As for the Focus making it unscathed from Europe to the States, I doubt it very much since the C1 in Europe occupies the same slot unit sales wise as a mid-sized sedan in North America and a similar price point, where in the US it will need to sell in the 15-20K USD range vs 18-25K Range that the C1 Does.

[Biker16]

I don't dispute the the Fusion is abigger car but,

you didn't read my post carefully,

Shoulder width, the C1 sedan is still 2" narrower than Fusion, the rear legroom is about 2" off

but the Trunk at 18 cuft is bigger than Fusion's 15.8 cuft.

 

If Ford increased C2's width, they possibly could "Tempo" the C2 for a really cheap Fusion.

Think of the potential savings.

 

 

the 18 Cu/ft is for the hatchback. I think . the sedan is 13.6 cu/ft

 

I just don't want any disinformation out there.

 

as for the tempo Idea. they already did that to make the Mondeo, s-max and galaxy.

[pcsario]

Your missing the point I was trying to make..the C1 has been over hyped so much by people on the internet when the C2 makes it to the US, its not going to fundamental mentaly change Focus sales as people make it out to be.

 

As for the Focus making it unscathed from Europe to the States, I doubt it very much since the C1 in Europe occupies the same slot unit sales wise as a mid-sized sedan in North America and a similar price point, where in the US it will need to sell in the 15-20K USD range vs 18-25K Range that the C1 Does.

More spin and excuses from silvrsvt, aka Mr. "I went from 14k tops to I see no problem with the (more expensive, C1-like) pricing" flip-flopper.

 

Prices are region driven. Canada, Mexico and NA belong to the same region. The C1 Focus starts at 13k in Mexico once you take out government taxes and other stuff not related to Ford out of the price. Fusion, Taurus, etc. also cost the same once you apply the same equation to them. That's around 13k for a WELL equipped Focus WITH the 2 liter engine. Do the same thing for the ST and --just like it happens in Europe-- it costs LESS than the GTI, which again, costs basically the same in Mexico and the US. It's also the case in plenty other countries as well, including Australia.

 

The parallels don't stop with Ford either. See the prices for the Mazda6 and 3 in Europe, NA, etc. Once again: Prices are region --REGION-- driven. This has been pointed out SEVERAL times to you for YEARS, and yet you still keep insisiting it would cost 25k "because a calculator told me so". Well, a calculator tells me the OUTGOING Fiesta, with a 1.6 liter engine, bare bones trim, STARTS at almost 15k USD in the UK. Surely the next one will be "even more expensive".

 

What are you going to say next, now that --even according to Ford NA-- the Fiesta will be basically the same as the Euro model? "Oh bubububububuub..." what? What will be the new excuse to avoid admitting you were wrong? You people have gone as far as basically stating FOE is profitable because they like to sell their cars at a loss... yeah right. How charitable and generous on FOE's and Mazda's part part to send/sell such well equipped vehicles in NA, instead of just decontenting them. I mean, forget about the big picture, it's all about knowing how to use a calculator.

 

YOU are the ones consistently missing the point, on purpuse. Ford could've had a desirable, sleek, sporty, solid, roomy, segment best pick since 2005, but of course, it's Ford NA, the paradise of the "don't call it mediocre, use competitive instead" execs. The Civic, next Corolla, etc. don't even come close to matching the C1 Focus right now in terms of roominess, packaging, and so on, But of course, ALMOST A DECADE LATER, when NA finally gets on with the times, competitors will have had almost TWO entire generations to catch up, and make entries that are similarly as good, since the C2 Focus is rumored to be just a tweaked C1.

 

I love how you clinge to that to diminish just how ahead of the game Ford could've been since '05. Only the VW Golf and Jetta are better, and even VW is taking the same route as FOE with the next model. They're so far ahead of everyone else, they can even give themselves the luxury of merely tweaking and improving a winner, kinda like the '09 F150. Of course, now you just "can't wait for C2" because the gap Vs. competitors -ALMOST A WHOLE DECADE LATER- won't be as big as the one in 2004.

 

The lenghts you people have gone to, just to avoid admitting you have been dead wrong all these years, is pathetic. We went from "bububub who needs yurocrap, C170 has a long life ahead of it, was the right choice, wait until you see our Foci it won't dissapoint, etc" to "OMG I can't wait for C2!!!!". All because Ford NA made the call.

 

 

we're defenders of mediocrity.

Well, considering the list is far longer than that, then yes... yes you are.

Edited September 2, 2007 by pcsario

[LincolnFan]

Pcsario, I would love to ask you a question.

 

Have you ever been in a C1 Focus? and if the answer is yes, Would you be kind enough to tell us about the C1 pros?

Edited September 2, 2007 by LincolnFan

[pcsario]

Plenty of others have driven it too, and even an absurdidly high number of reviewers have said it's better than the C170 Focus.

 

FYI. yes, I've been in one, driven it, etc. but I know where this is going.

 

Last time it was RJ brushing off the opinions of pretty much every other person who has driven it and agrees, all because LincolnFan, the owner of a bare bones, 1.3L Focus "likes the NA Focus better" or something like that. You always side with Ford NA so this is pointless.

 

I guess we should go ahead with this and say LincolnFan's opinion should be trusted more than professional reviewers, since all of them disagree with you.

[LincolnFan]

Plenty of others have driven it too, and even an absurdidly high number of reviewers have said it's better than the C170 Focus.

 

FYI. yes, I've been in one, driven it, etc. but I know where this is going.

 

Last time it was RJ brushing off the opinions of pretty much every other person who has driven it and agrees, all because LincolnFan, the owner of a bare bones, 1.3L Focus "likes the NA Focus better" or something like that. You always side with Ford NA so this is pointless.

 

I guess we should go ahead with this and say LincolnFan's opinion should be trusted more than professional reviewers, since all of them disagree with you.

 

1.6 Ze-Duratec, it's in my sig. Ask me anything. It's my car and I will be biased with it not the other way around.

 

My beef is with the people who completely dismiss the the 08 Focus, IMO it's designed for young people (I'd say about 23 and under), I like the design alot inside and out. well.. except for the face offcourse, I am not that crazy about it and I think it's a bit ugly. But still the interior is solid imo.

 

My Focus uses a cooprate FoE jukebox, yet I don't see you complaining about that, the same unit is used in every FoE vehicle.

 

I do like my car, it's the only C-class car I can think of that actually has pretty good interior materials. I'd say they're Lexus soft but someone is going to flame me for that.

[MKII]

Your missing the point I was trying to make..the C1 has been over hyped so much by people on the internet when the C2 makes it to the US, its not going to fundamental mentaly change Focus sales as people make it out to be.

 

As for the Focus making it unscathed from Europe to the States, I doubt it very much since the C1 in Europe occupies the same slot unit sales wise as a mid-sized sedan in North America and a similar price point, where in the US it will need to sell in the 15-20K USD range vs 18-25K Range that the C1 Does.

 

I know RJ hates when someone tries to use pricing from other markets, but this is the price I paid in Estonia converted to Canadian dollars which includes 18% VAT and license fees etc. The final on the road price I paid was $22,268.00CAD(about $19,000 before tax). (And Ford of America uses the excuse the C1 Focus would be too expensive for North American market). If you could spec the C170 Focus the same in Canada the on the road price would be higher, and this is cheaper then any midsize segment vehicle I could buy in Canada.

 

Fuel consumption (L/100 km) (mpg)

City 8.7 (32.5) Highway 5.4 (52.3) Combined 6.6 (42.4)

1.6l TI-VCT mated with 5 speed manual (yes its a wee engine but I prefer it over the 2.0l I had)

Standard equipment- 16" 5x3-spoke ‘machined’ alloy wheels

Electrically operated and heated door mirrors, with body colour housings

Body colour door handles

Chrome grille surround

Dark headlight surrounds

Sports-style front seats

Aluminium-finish handbrake release button

Satin aluminium-finish instrument cluster rings

Trip/fuel computer

'Quickclear' heated windscreen with heated water jets

Body colour bodyside mouldings

Unique sports suspension

Electrically operated front and rear windows with one-touch lowering/closing, ‘bounce back’ anti-trap feature and global opening/closing

CFC-free air conditioning

Auto-dimming rear-view mirror

Illuminated sunvisor vanity mirrors

Front map lights

Footwell illumination

Rear overhead dome courtesy light

Centre stack bezel in Mocca finish

Leather gearshift knob with silver graphics and aluminium-finish ring

Front carpet slip mats

Autowipers, with rain sensor

Headlamp washers

Automatic headlights

Headlamp Delay headlights (switch-off headlights)

Headlamp levelling

Air conditioning-cooled glovebox

Driver’s side sunglasses holder

Folding rear centre armrest with storage

Instrument panel storage

4-spoke leather-trimmed steering wheel

Cruise control

Thatcham Cat 1 volume sensing alarm

Sony single CD

Exterior mirrors with side repeaters

Cargo cover

Ambient lighting

ESP electronic stability

Air bags front, side and side curtains

ABS, with EBA (electronic brake assist)

 

Options - 16" 5-spoke alloy wheel

Sony MP3/CD RDS EON stereo radio features a ‘Keycode’ for security, 8 premium speakers

Climate Control (DEATC) Dual Electronic Automatic Temperature Control

Luxury velour carpet floor mats

Contour rubber mats

Contoured mudflaps

Retractable load barrier retention net

First aid kit and emergency equipment (Warning triangle, safety vest, fire extinguisher, first aid kit, towing rope and jump leads help you to be prepared for most emergency situations)

Couple pics http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index....ach=26142;image

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index....ach=26160;image

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index....ach=26148;image

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index....ach=26166;image

Edited September 3, 2007 by MKII

[jpd80]

the 18 Cu/ft is for the hatchback. I think . the sedan is 13.6 cu/ft

 

I just don't want any disinformation out there.

 

as for the tempo Idea. they already did that to make the Mondeo, s-max and galaxy.

Other way around mate, the trunk on the sedan is much bigger (18 cuft) than the hatch (13.6).

As you said, we don't want disinformation out there.

The official Ford websites give the capacities in litres but you get my drift - 510 litres for the sedan is 18 cuft.

Mondeo is really between your Fusion and Taurus, what I was thinking of was a stretched Focus, slightly smaller than current Fusion.

Probably a little narrow visioned on my part.

Edited September 2, 2007 by jpd80

[630land]

The only true C1 to really compare in the USA is the Mazda 3. Sure it's nicer, but there is no such thing as a "time machine" to go back and make the current Focus a C1. So, we are getting the 'c346' in 2011.

 

Don't like the 2008 US Focus? Don't buy it, and quit complaining. It is not as if the current Ford management is NOT doing something. And, the C170 is not a 'POS dated car' like the last Cavaliers, Neons, and Kia Rios/Hyundai Accents.

[Edstock]

this is the price converted to Canadian dollars which includes 18% VAT and license fees etc.

 

 

18% VAT ?? Huh?

 

Our 7% GST (Goods and Services Tax) is a VAT, which means it is applied at every stage of a product all the way to final retail.

 

With a VAT, you buy $100 worth of goods and services, you pay $7 in tax. You sell that for say, $300. You collect $21 GST at sale time. You subtract the $7 you paid, and remit $14. That's why it's called value-added taxation, and it took cheap desktop computers and bookkeeping software to make it possible. I believe VAT's originated in Europe.

 

Provincial sales taxes are not VAT's, but final-user, retail taxes.

 

AFAIK, in the province of Ontario, we pay 7% GST and 7% PST (Provincial Sales Tax).

[suv_guy_19]

18% VAT ?? Huh?

 

Our 7% GST (Goods and Services Tax) is a VAT, which means it is applied at every stage of a product all the way to final retail.

 

With a VAT, you buy $100 worth of goods and services, you pay $7 in tax. You sell that for say, $300. You collect $21 GST at sale time. You subtract the $7 you paid, and remit $14. That's why it's called value-added taxation, and it took cheap desktop computers and bookkeeping software to make it possible. I believe VAT's originated in Europe.

 

Provincial sales taxes are not VAT's, but final-user, retail taxes.

 

AFAIK, in the province of Ontario, we pay 7% GST and 7% PST (Provincial Sales Tax).

 

 

I think you forgot that GST is now 6%....

[pcsario]

Hi I'm 630land, once again refusing to admit I was wrong. kthxbye. *runs*