Edstock Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Why doesn't GM use the huge profits in China to benefit the retirees that worked the 35 years for them? The Japanese do that! The Japanese do that — in Japan. China is a different market, controlled by the Chinese government. The point is, those 'huge profits' may not be easily extractable, except to shareholders of the Chinese company; there may also be requirements for re-investment that might absorb a fair chunk of those 'huge' profits. If you have details about those 'huge' profits, please enighten us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 :reading: GM replaced and expand Saturn's line-up within three years. Question: Why didn't Ford do the same for Lincoln and/or Mercury? Answer: Past inept management. :shades: uhhh.... at the expense of Pontiac, Chevrolet Hummer, Buick and GMC. Let's talk about Pontiac. Nothing but warmed over Chevys Chevy is nothing but rental queens and rebadged Korean shitboxes Buick has a rebadged DTS and thats about it. Hummer doesn't have any new models and GMC, the second biggest division, is still Chevy clones. and of course, let's not forget, resources allocated to Saturn that previously would have been allocated to Olds. So. Let's talk about that great Saturn line-up. A warmed over Opel A GMC twin a new cute-ute that was well overdue for a redesign. Did I miss anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 uhhh.... at the expense of Pontiac, Chevrolet Hummer, Buick and GMC. Let's talk about Pontiac. Nothing but warmed over Chevys Chevy is nothing but rental queens and rebadged Korean shitboxes Buick has a rebadged DTS and thats about it. Hummer doesn't have any new models and GMC, the second biggest division, is still Chevy clones. and of course, let's not forget, resources allocated to Saturn that previously would have been allocated to Olds. So. Let's talk about that great Saturn line-up. A warmed over Opel A GMC twin a new cute-ute that was well overdue for a redesign. Did I miss anything? What about the Solstice, GTO, G8? :shades: What about the new Malibu, Suburban/Tahoe and Silverado? There's only one Korean car in the line up.... What about the new Enclave? (That's it however) Hummer has the new H3....That's more then they should have. GMC has a CUV that Chevy doesn't have. :boring: The new CTS will be a home-run for GM.... It will bury Lincoln. I wish Ford had the same issues with there line-up as GM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 Pony Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) I'd rather see Ford work on more efficent and powerfull engines, new in car technology, refinement/build quality and safety vs. producing crap just to produce it. I would too. Hope it happens someday. Anyhow, even tho F/L/M only sells about 16,000 more units than C/D/J, Ford only has 19 models compared to Chrysler's 24. So while I respect Chrysler for taking chances, I think a lot of their new models were not well thought out before introduction. Which Ford thankfully hasn't done. Although Ford tends to take the opposite approach and be too conservative in some areas. Specifically in those areas that Chrysler outsells Ford . . . My question is why does Ford keep abandoning markets and turning the sales over to Chrysler and GM? Edited October 12, 2007 by 96 Pony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 My question is why does Ford keep abandoning markets and turning the sales over to Chrysler and GM? Poor management. But, they are paid very well to make those decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 (edited) "So. Let's talk about that great Saturn line-up. A warmed over Opel A GMC twin a new cute-ute that was well overdue for a redesign. Did I miss anything? " Ding, a winner! "My question is why does Ford keep abandoning markets and turning the sales over to Chrysler and GM?" Like what? Chrysler is hardly gaining any sales. The only true hit now is the 4 door Wrangler, the 300 is passe', Mustang outsold it in in Sept, so the gearheads have to stop thinking it is 2004 when it was hot. They are certainly not selling Durangos, Dakotas, Compasses, Magnums, Chargers, and many others at the rates predicted. In fact the strike was hoped to cut inventory. And, the plant making the Compass/Caliber is shutting down for 'inventory adjustment'. How is that turning over sales to Mopar? GM is only getting B car sales since they have Aveo. But they are giving FoMoCo a run for $ in trucks. Edited October 13, 2007 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 uhhh.... at the expense of Pontiac, Chevrolet Hummer, Buick and GMC. Let's talk about Pontiac. Nothing but warmed over Chevys Chevy is nothing but rental queens and rebadged Korean shitboxes Buick has a rebadged DTS and thats about it. Hummer doesn't have any new models and GMC, the second biggest division, is still Chevy clones. and of course, let's not forget, resources allocated to Saturn that previously would have been allocated to Olds. So. Let's talk about that great Saturn line-up. A warmed over Opel A GMC twin a new cute-ute that was well overdue for a redesign. Did I miss anything? 1st, Buick has the hottestvehicle in America, The Enclave as of Yesterday spends an average of 1 business day on dealer's lots and placed first in "hot off the Lots" acording to WSJ. Then talk about a rebadge? The Lucerne has completely new sheetmetal and Interior........look at how Ford couldn't even have been bothered to differentiate lincolns rebadges.............but yet you knock GM? 2nd Chevy recieved all new Trucks and SUV's.......all completely new. They recieved the new impala and the new aveo and refreshed Equinox. Second you have the new Malibu coming out, 4 years after the previous one......and unlike FOrd, they are redo-ing the Malibu now even though it will also be replaced in 2011 with the Epsillon 2 platform.............not just doing a crap job like the escape and focus because of the new platform in a couple years. Then you have the new impala and Camaro, and Traverse and Equinox and a smaller than equinox SUV. 3rd. Hummer.........................Hummer is a very Niche brand, they are a 2 product brand and the products have been refreshed and completely new product such at the H4 and Pick-up are on the way..........I don't get how you can point out GM abandoning Hummer. 4th. GMC has always been Chevy clones. The Acadia was the First GMC in history not to have a chevy twin(though it is coming) so How did GM abandon GMC? 5. Pontiac has the G8 coming, the have the solstice now, the new Alpha platform to replace the G6, the new vibe, and the hardtop Solstice. I will agree that Saturn was put as the priority but not at the cost of other brands. GM is doing far more with product now, and in the future than Ford is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 "So. Let's talk about that great Saturn line-up.A warmed over Opel A GMC twin a new cute-ute that was well overdue for a redesign. Did I miss anything? " Ding, a winner! "My question is why does Ford keep abandoning markets and turning the sales over to Chrysler and GM?" Like what? Chrysler is hardly gaining any sales. The only true hit now is the 4 door Wrangler, the 300 is passe', Mustang outsold it in in Sept, so the gearheads have to stop thinking it is 2004 when it was hot. They are certainly not selling Durangos, Dakotas, Compasses, Magnums, Chargers, and many others at the rates predicted. In fact the strike was hoped to cut inventory. And, the plant making the Compass/Caliber is shutting down for 'inventory adjustment'. How is that turning over sales to Mopar? GM is only getting B car sales since they have Aveo. But they are giving FoMoCo a run for $ in trucks. Ford(and GM and CHrysler) keep abandoning markets and turning sales over to the Japanese. Anyone who thinks this is Ford vs. Chrysler vs GM is clueless, this is the Big vs. the Japanese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 1st, Buick has the hottestvehicle in America, The Enclave as of Yesterday spends an average of 1 business day on dealer's lots and placed first in "hot off the Lots" acording to WSJ. Then talk about a rebadge? The Lucerne has completely new sheetmetal and Interior........look at how Ford couldn't even have been bothered to differentiate lincolns rebadges.............but yet you knock GM? What's the average age of Buick's buyers? oh wait, nevermind. How can we NOT knock GM? They make one right move and a 100 idiotic dumb moves. 2nd Chevy recieved all new Trucks and SUV's.......all completely new. They recieved the new impala and the new aveo and refreshed Equinox. Second you have the new Malibu coming out, 4 years after the previous one......and unlike FOrd, they are redo-ing the Malibu now even though it will also be replaced in 2011 with the Epsillon 2 platform.............not just doing a crap job like the escape and focus because of the new platform in a couple years. Then you have the new impala and Camaro, and Traverse and Equinox and a smaller than equinox SUV. The Trailblazer is all new? Lol. New Impala? Lol. New Aveo? Lol. Refreshed Equinox? DiCK stop it, it's killing me. The Flopibu? Doesn't it start at 20K and has a 4-speed auto and no manuel... I mean manual option? Wait, Ford isn't working on a new Fusion in 2012 on EUCD2? SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!! New Impala and Redneckamaro? Give me a break, Zeta already bombed because it was developed by the faggots at Holden. Seems like an SUV lineup when SUVs are dying. Maybe Lutz is Nasser's Dutch cousin? 3rd. Hummer.........................Hummer is a very Niche brand, they are a 2 product brand and the products have been refreshed and completely new product such at the H4 and Pick-up are on the way..........I don't get how you can point out GM abandoning Hummer. Hummer is dead, no one is going to buy gigantic SUVs anymore. Oh yea Hummers are supposed to be hardcore off-roaders. A Land Crapper can beat the H# anytime anyday. 4th. GMC has always been Chevy clones. The Acadia was the First GMC in history not to have a chevy twin(though it is coming) so How did GM abandon GMC? You just contradicted yourself there. What's DCK + head? 5. Pontiac has the G8 coming, the have the solstice now, the new Alpha platform to replace the G6, the new vibe, and the hardtop Solstice.I will agree that Saturn was put as the priority but not at the cost of other brands. GM is doing far more with product now, and in the future than Ford is. G8 is a freaking rebadge and shouldn't take this long to slap a Pontiac badge on it, oh wait. This is Holden (Holes Oil Leaks Dents Engine Noise) nvm what I said. When are they coming? Last time I heard Alpha isn't even in production, hell it's not done yet. Fuck, do we even know if it's still in planning or did it cross to the development stage? GM is a company run by idiots for rednecks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Ford(and GM and CHrysler) keep abandoning markets and turning sales over to the Japanese. Anyone who thinks this is Ford vs. Chrysler vs GM is clueless, this is the Big vs. the Japanese. I agree 100%. Fair points to all on the state of GM vehicles. However, my point still remains, Chrysler and GM are hardly the benchmark for new models to compare back to Ford. Ford certainly is well behind in new product development, but like DCK said, Ford should keep focussed on whom is actually taking the share away from Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 What's the average age of Buick's buyers? oh wait, nevermind. How can we NOT knock GM? They make one right move and a 100 idiotic dumb moves.The Trailblazer is all new? Lol. New Impala? Lol. New Aveo? Lol. Refreshed Equinox? DiCK stop it, it's killing me. The Flopibu? Doesn't it start at 20K and has a 4-speed auto and no manuel... I mean manual option? Wait, Ford isn't working on a new Fusion in 2012 on EUCD2? SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!! New Impala and Redneckamaro? Give me a break, Zeta already bombed because it was developed by the faggots at Holden. Seems like an SUV lineup when SUVs are dying. Maybe Lutz is Nasser's Dutch cousin? Hummer is dead, no one is going to buy gigantic SUVs anymore. Oh yea Hummers are supposed to be hardcore off-roaders. A Land Crapper can beat the H# anytime anyday. You just contradicted yourself there. What's DCK + head? G8 is a freaking rebadge and shouldn't take this long to slap a Pontiac badge on it, oh wait. This is Holden (Holes Oil Leaks Dents Engine Noise) nvm what I said. When are they coming? Last time I heard Alpha isn't even in production, hell it's not done yet. Fuck, do we even know if it's still in planning or did it cross to the development stage? GM is a company run by idiots for rednecks. I hope people don't think you represent Ford Fans, because you are trully something different. Your whole post is completely childish, it really did make me laugh, why waste your time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I agree 100%. Fair points to all on the state of GM vehicles. However, my point still remains, Chrysler and GM are hardly the benchmark for new models to compare back to Ford. Ford certainly is well behind in new product development, but like DCK said, Ford should keep focussed on whom is actually taking the share away from Ford. I agree, I think the new Malibu falls short just like the Fusion fell short, but I think the Lambdas did benchmark the class, something that the Edge failed to do..........and did very poor in comparos. No doubt both the Edge and the Lambdas are successes. GM is supplying product to all brand, Ford has failed to even supply effecient product to one brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I hope people don't think you represent Ford Fans, because you are trully something different. Your whole post is completely childish, it really did make me laugh, why waste your time? GM is quite fun to flame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I hope people don't think you represent Ford Fans, because you are trully something different. Your whole post is completely childish, it really did make me laugh, why waste your time? Come on Lincolns only having a bit of fun don’t take it all so seriously, he makes me laugh at times, and l think that’s a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I agree, I think the new Malibu falls short just like the Fusion fell short, but I think the Lambdas did benchmark the class, something that the Edge failed to do..........and did very poor in comparos. No doubt both the Edge and the Lambdas are successes. GM is supplying product to all brand, Ford has failed to even supply effecient product to one brand. What world do you live in. Ford is supplying products to the two important core brands....I'm not sure what GM is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 What world do you live in. Ford is supplying products to the two important core brands....I'm not sure what GM is doing. Ford just started supplying product to one brand, For the first part of this decade Ford didn't even supply sufficient product to any brand. Adding a new grill onto a Ford, isn't "supplying" Lincoln with product. When the MKS comes out, then you would have a small arguement, bt until then, GM is a step ahead, covering their brands much better with product than Ford is. I understand Ford killed product that was going to come out because it was crap, but who's fault is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Ford just started supplying product to one brand, For the first part of this decade Ford didn't even supply sufficient product to any brand. Adding a new grill onto a Ford, isn't "supplying" Lincoln with product. When the MKS comes out, then you would have a small arguement, bt until then, GM is a step ahead, covering their brands much better with product than Ford is. I understand Ford killed product that was going to come out because it was crap, but who's fault is that? Yeah, the failures of the MKX and MKZ. Just a grille. Lets leave out the fact that those statements are untrue. The Ford brand has the product, whether you believe and admit so or not. It will take time for people to come back to Ford, but when they do, they will have a great deal to come back to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I agree, I think the new Malibu falls short just like the Fusion fell short, but I think the Lambdas did benchmark the class, something that the Edge failed to do..........and did very poor in comparos. No doubt both the Edge and the Lambdas are successes. GM is supplying product to all brand, Ford has failed to even supply effecient product to one brand. I don't get what your saying here..the Lambdas are a totally different class of CUV vs the Edge. Even though the Edge did bad in Comaros...its still the best selling CUV on the market...in any class.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I don't get what your saying here..the Lambdas are a totally different class of CUV vs the Edge. Even though the Edge did bad in Comaros...its still the best selling CUV on the market...in any class.. I didn't say they were in the same class, and I did say the edge was a success. The Lambdas benchmarked their class and lead i comparos, something the Edge failed to do in its class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Hire away the CEO of Toyota. He heads a successful auto corporation, and we could probably get him for $2 mill a yer tops. What plantet are you on? Do you think it would be that easy-heh Toyota-let's double your pay-and he is just going to come on over-and then someone else say's-heh-let's double your pay-and get him for 4 million? Come on Pioneer-we all know you are just a pissed off factory worker-but be relastic!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Guess you never considered the fact that we'll get a Kuga Mk.2 when it does come out to the states? They tried bringing over the current Kuga as a Lincoln this go around, but it was too expensive to do. Outside of the engines (which are according to rumor getting updated in 09), whats so wrong with the Escape that makes it horrible? Its selling well... Granted it is selling well....right now....but this vehicle does not get updated styling for several years....a long way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 "but I think the Lambdas did benchmark the class" And what class is that, specifically? The 5,000+ pound bloat-wagon class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 Pony Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 "My question is why does Ford keep abandoning markets and turning the sales over to Chrysler and GM?" Like what? Chrysler is hardly gaining any sales. The only true hit now is the 4 door Wrangler, the 300 is passe', Mustang outsold it in in Sept, so the gearheads have to stop thinking it is 2004 when it was hot. They are certainly not selling Durangos, Dakotas, Compasses, Magnums, Chargers, and many others at the rates predicted. In fact the strike was hoped to cut inventory. And, the plant making the Compass/Caliber is shutting down for 'inventory adjustment'. How is that turning over sales to Mopar? GM is only getting B car sales since they have Aveo. But they are giving FoMoCo a run for $ in trucks. Incorrect answers! (1)This comparing 300 sales to the Mustang just cracks me up. That would be like saying the Ram outsold the Ranger. You conveniently don't compare sales to their equals, which would be the Panthers and the Taurus Triplets, which Chrysler handily outsells. Same with GM's Impala. Hardly passee. (2) Ford abandoned the mini van market. Chrysler, GM and the Japs both thank them. (3) Lincoln abandoned the rwd, mid-sized entry level luxury market. Cadillac currently has now buried Lincoln with the CTS. (4) Ford abandoned the roadster. Instead of making Thunderbird lower priced and based on the MX5 they let it slip away. Enter the Solstice and the Sky . . . And yes - I know the MX5 is out there but I would prefer something that said Ford on it. There are other instances but these are the 4 that bug me the most. Kudos to Ford however for not abandoning the Pony Car market. :shades: Ford does so much right anymore, with the Fusion, Taurus X, Edge and a redesign just around the corner for the F Series and Focus, both of which I think will be successes. But the fact remains that they have allowed GM, Chrysler and the Japs to pick up hundreds of thousands of units in sales by either abandoning markets or not addressing markets that the others have created. That said, I do appreciate Ford's more conservative approach in introducing new vehicles. I think in the long run it is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 (3) Lincoln abandoned the rwd, mid-sized entry level luxury market. Cadillac currently has now buried Lincoln with the CTS. OBJECTION! (Hey Rick, can you put a Phoenix Wright smiley there? kthx) Buried? hahahah! Lincoln is burying Cadillac's pathetic renassience shit. The STS flopped, the SRX flopped, the XLR flopped, the V-series fucking flopped, the Escalade is a flop but GM knew how to advertise it correctly. The MKZ and MKX are actually selling near 3000 units a month. That's their targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Come on Pioneer-we all know you are just a pissed off factory worker-but be relastic!! I'm being unrealistic? But $36 Million a year isn't? You guys are nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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