Nissan Still Looking for American Partner

[LincolnFan]

.

Edited October 24, 2007 by LincolnFan

[LincolnFan]

There is nothing to gain by partnering with Nissan. Hyundai or KIA, especially KIA, would be a better partner. Both need trucks, and Ford needs minivans and small cars.

 

Kia and Hyundai are essentially the same.

 

Small cars? I think the C1 is superior to any Kia product, the Fiesta seems nice, the Ka was co-developed with Fiat.

 

Ford doesn't need the Koreans, GM, on the other hand might find them useful. Chevy's car lineup is 70% Daewoo, 30% Holden.

 

You work for a plant that supplies Ford's truck, correct? Your plant will be sold as well! Yay me!

[Pioneer]

You work for a plant that supplies Ford's truck, correct? Your plant will be sold as well! Yay me!

 

Yay! I get a massive buyout and Ford invested a lot of money in my education and training so I can find work anywhere!

 

:party2: :party2: :party2: :party2: :party2:

 

(My plant is closing BTW)

Edited October 24, 2007 by Pioneer

[LincolnFan]

Yay! I get a massive buyout and Ford invested a lot of money in my education and training so I can find work anywhere!

 

:party2: :party2: :party2: :party2: :party2:

 

(My plant is closing BTW)

 

No wonder you're sir bitchalot, but losing a job sucks no matter whatever they will give you in return.

 

I never knew your plant was closing, sorry for being a complete ass.

[Pioneer]

I never knew your plant was closing, sorry for being a complete ass.

 

No problem. I'm not worried about losing my job. My trade is growing.

Edited October 24, 2007 by Pioneer

[ShockFX]

No problem. I'm not worried about losing my job. My trade is growing.

 

If you're skilled trade not line assembly all my UAW comments don't apply to you. I'm a fan of skilled trade making $80k or whatever they make. I would be a total failure as a carpenter/pipefitter/plumber/etc.

[Pioneer]

I would be a total failure as a carpenter/pipefitter/plumber/etc.

 

 

Those aren't skilled trades. I'm an Electrician.

 

J/K guys.

[Ford Rules]

I may be wrong, but I think a Ford-Nissan partnership will help Ford compete a lot better in the B-car, minivan, and all luxury segments. Infiniti's products are very strong and reliable right now (not counting the QX56), which could help Lincoln regain some glory in the luxury market. Ford needs to get back in the minivan segment and speed up the introduction of the Fiesta, or some kind of B-car.

[suv_guy_19]

I may be wrong, but I think a Ford-Nissan partnership will help Ford compete a lot better in the B-car, minivan, and all luxury segments. Infiniti's products are very strong and reliable right now (not counting the QX56), which could help Lincoln regain some glory in the luxury market. Ford needs to get back in the minivan segment and speed up the introduction of the Fiesta, or some kind of B-car.

 

 

Lincoln may not have as much "glory" as Infiniti (I love Infiniti by the way), but they do outsell them.

[J-150]

The only thing I find decent about Nissan is Carlos Ghosn, if we can get him, I'm happy.

 

 

you really want another Nasser?

 

Nissan quality has gone into the toilet under Ghosn.

[ANTAUS]

Nissan reliability has always been average, if at that. Just because you inherit the problem, doesn't mean you can't fix it...

 

If we put the shoe on the other foot, Nissan could say, "Eww, why would we want a company who has UAW problems, or has a shitload of legacy costs to deal with", etc.etc. Each company has pros and cons, it's all about making it work. If you can't make it work, then don't marry it.

 

Supposedly BMW might be an interested suitor...what are we going to hear then? "Eww why do we need BMW, they can't build reliable SUV's"

[Harley Lover]

I may be wrong, but I think a Ford-Nissan partnership will help Ford compete a lot better in the B-car...

Yes, you are wrong. Good grief, read other threads on the board: http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...showtopic=17678

[wescoent]

 

 

That's all I'm saying. Mazda can put Nissan on the trailer ANY day of the week, and the new Altima compared to THIS???

[ShockFX]

Nissan reliability has always been average, if at that. Just because you inherit the problem, doesn't mean you can't fix it...

 

If we put the shoe on the other foot, Nissan could say, "Eww, why would we want a company who has UAW problems, or has a shitload of legacy costs to deal with", etc.etc. Each company has pros and cons, it's all about making it work. If you can't make it work, then don't marry it.

 

Supposedly BMW might be an interested suitor...what are we going to hear then? "Eww why do we need BMW, they can't build reliable SUV's"

 

Haha. Ford tried to buy BMW in the lat 90s but the deal fell through when the Ford family insisted on complete control.

[waymondospiff]

Most of what I have to say has already been covered:

 

1. Ghosn was at the right place at the right time. He cut away at the bloated Nissan struture right as Nissan was ready to launch it's early 2000s product offensive. I'm not saying he isn't talented, but from Renault-Nissan's current shakey state it appears that Ghosn has a problem running a "stable" company.

 

2. Renault-Nissan-Ford(-Mazda) leads to 2 domestic brands in Japan, only moderate China penetration (correct me if I'm wrong but none of R-N-F-M have a large presence in China yet as far as I know), 2 "domestic" European brands, and two heavily competitive model lines in the US. I don't see the potential to expand. I see consolidation as a possibility, but not growth.

 

3. Ford is essentially going through a merger right now. It's integrating all of the virtually-independent arms of the company - FofE, FofA, & FofNA. Why, on top of the on-going integration, would any sane business leader attempt to add another set of existing architecture and personnel into the equation?

 

4. Nissan's "stengths" are it's VQ engine, sporty cars, and Infiniti? For all intents and purposes the new 3.5L Duratec matches the VQ. Ford has a history of sporty cars and it has Mazda to tap the "low volume, mass market" sporty vehicle segment (RX-8 & MX-5.) And Infiniti is one chassis - the FX, G, & M all ride the same "FM" chassis as the 350Z. And, like it or not, the MKZ/MKX/MKS combination will probably outsell Inifiniti.

 

Chrysler, with virtual zero European and Asian market penetration, would be a much better match for Nissan. They could benefit from Nissan's engines, more easily swap their hybrid Mercedes & Mitsubishi engineering platforms for the Nissan equivalent, and would give Nissan the U.S. volume they desire. I could see Cerberus buying something like a 30% stake in Renault-Nissan in exchange for a 50% Chrysler stake by R-N.

 

But on any of this: don't hold your breath!

 

Scott

[LincolnFan]

you really want another Nasser?

 

Nissan quality has gone into the toilet under Ghosn.

 

Funny how Jackass Nasser and Carlos Ghosn are both from Arab descendant, like I said. These morons should never run a company.

[98GMLS]

I don't think a Ford-Renault-Nissan venture will work, as they have different portfolios, with the exception of the Altima and Fusion. So I'm not sure what they can bring to Ford to help in these desperate times.

I had suggested this about a year ago, and I will say it again. I would prefer to see a Ford-VW venture. Ford could use VW's expertise in diesels to help in North America. We can give VW a mid-size and full size truck platform for North America.

How kool would that be. Under controlling company you could have:

 

Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Volvo, Mazda, Jaguar, Land Rover, VW, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Skoda, Audi. That would truly be the biggest automaker in the world and they would be a global competitor.

 

1) Ford, VW, Mercury, Mazda, Skoda (share platform and engines)

2) Lincoln, Volvo, Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover (share platform and engines)

3) Lamborgini and Bugatti (share platform and engines)

 

But this probably will not happen, as the German courts have cleared the way for Porsche to take over VW.

 

It would of work I think.

[wescoent]

Most of what I have to say has already been covered:

 

1. Ghosn was at the right place at the right time. He cut away at the bloated Nissan struture right as Nissan was ready to launch it's early 2000s product offensive. I'm not saying he isn't talented, but from Renault-Nissan's current shakey state it appears that Ghosn has a problem running a "stable" company.

 

2. Renault-Nissan-Ford(-Mazda) leads to 2 domestic brands in Japan, only moderate China penetration (correct me if I'm wrong but none of R-N-F-M have a large presence in China yet as far as I know), 2 "domestic" European brands, and two heavily competitive model lines in the US. I don't see the potential to expand. I see consolidation as a possibility, but not growth.

 

3. Ford is essentially going through a merger right now. It's integrating all of the virtually-independent arms of the company - FofE, FofA, & FofNA. Why, on top of the on-going integration, would any sane business leader attempt to add another set of existing architecture and personnel into the equation?

 

4. Nissan's "stengths" are it's VQ engine, sporty cars, and Infiniti? For all intents and purposes the new 3.5L Duratec matches the VQ. Ford has a history of sporty cars and it has Mazda to tap the "low volume, mass market" sporty vehicle segment (RX-8 & MX-5.) And Infiniti is one chassis - the FX, G, & M all ride the same "FM" chassis as the 350Z. And, like it or not, the MKZ/MKX/MKS combination will probably outsell Inifiniti.

 

Chrysler, with virtual zero European and Asian market penetration, would be a much better match for Nissan. They could benefit from Nissan's engines, more easily swap their hybrid Mercedes & Mitsubishi engineering platforms for the Nissan equivalent, and would give Nissan the U.S. volume they desire. I could see Cerberus buying something like a 30% stake in Renault-Nissan in exchange for a 50% Chrysler stake by R-N.

 

But on any of this: don't hold your breath!

 

Scott

 

This sums up the situation very well. Anything Nissan can do, Ford can do better. Even the mighty Altima has been taken to task by the 2009 Mazda 6. Lincoln's triple threat of the MKZ/MKX/MKS, which will be honed and refined further for the next generation, will handily outsell Infiniti by itself, even taking the resurgent Navigator, MK-Flex, and Town Car out of the equation.

[Biker16]

What can Nissan offer Ford? Ford doesn't need the VQ. The new Duratecs seem to be doing just fine. Any integration of platforms and engineering would take a painfully long time to implement and would throw another huge wrench into the gears of an already complicated restructuring.

 

And yes, unfortunately I do remember the Quest/Villager. I really wish I didn't.

 

I loved the vilager, That 3rd row seat on rails was a real inovation back in the day. too bad they let it rot on the vine for soo long.

[NickF1011]

I loved the vilager, That 3rd row seat on rails was a real inovation back in the day. too bad they let it rot on the vine for soo long.

 

It didn't look bad or anything, but the packaging just wasn't right for the majority of the market. It was just too small.

[J-150]

Funny how Jackass Nasser and Carlos Ghosn are both from Arab descendant, like I said. These morons should never run a company.

 

 

couldn't agree more.

 

they are great presidents as long as there is a strong executive Chair above them to make sure they sacrifice too much in the name of cost cutting.(which Nasser didn't have)

[Ford Jellymoulds]

I don't think a Ford-Renault-Nissan venture will work, as they have different portfolios, with the exception of the Altima and Fusion. So I'm not sure what they can bring to Ford to help in these desperate times.

I had suggested this about a year ago, and I will say it again. I would prefer to see a Ford-VW venture. Ford could use VW's expertise in diesels to help in North America. We can give VW a mid-size and full size truck platform for North America.

How kool would that be. Under controlling company you could have:

 

Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Volvo, Mazda, Jaguar, Land Rover, VW, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Skoda, Audi. That would truly be the biggest automaker in the world and they would be a global competitor.

 

1) Ford, VW, Mercury, Mazda, Skoda (share platform and engines)

2) Lincoln, Volvo, Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover (share platform and engines)

3) Lamborgini and Bugatti (share platform and engines)

 

But this probably will not happen, as the German courts have cleared the way for Porsche to take over VW.

 

It would of work I think.

VW have worked wonders with Skoda, Porsche have got the green light now to buy VW its a shame. Ford VW would be a much better merger than Ford Renualt.

[68Cougar]

It's a bad idea. Carlos Ghosn is great at making deals, but has shown less ability to run a company on a daily basis (much like Durant). Both Nissan and Renault have had down times with him at the helm.

[RichardJensen]

Yeah. Ford/VW would work great---

 

As long as everybody at the VP level and above at VW got fired.

 

VW's horrendous experiences in North America illustrate the fundamental blindspot of their management (as a whole). They refuse to acknowledge that German cars are unacceptable volume products in the largest single market on the planet.

 

Like a few people on this board, they are sold on the concept that a car that sells well in Europe will sell well in the U.S., completely ignoring the -heeeeeyouuge- cultural differences between the two markets.

 

They should not come within a country mile of Ford.

 

Besides, if you want to see how much VW can screw up Ford, go dig up the grave of AutoLatina and examine that corpse.

 

Ford lost its shirt so bad in that fiasco, they seriously considered pulling out of South America.

Edited October 25, 2007 by RichardJensen

[ShockFX]

Everything people keep posting that Ford would gain from a merger, Ford has proven capable of doing in countries other than NA. Ford has top notch diesels, small cars, midsize cars, RWD cars, etc outside of FordNA. Ford doesn't need a merger, it needs to better leverage everything they are capable of in other countries. This is Mullaly's plan to move to global platforms. There is nothing Ford gains from a merger.