VetteZ06 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 maybe you're a tool I suppose it's possible. i mean you come on to an obviously Ford biased forum and call someone who likes Ford and hates GM a tool I've been through this already. I understand that 99% of the folks here probably don't like GM. I'm not so dense that I would assume otherwise. suv_guy is a special brand of "fan," however - he refuses to admit the merits of non-Ford branded vehicles completely. Being a loyal fan is one thing - being an irrational boob is another. im not sticking up for suv_guy, cause i personally do not care(did not say hate) for the Charger, but i don't think he is the tool here.... Yes, you are sticking up for him, and yes, he IS a tool. I don't see why it's necessary for you to be offended by comments directed at somebody else. i guess im a tool for hating Toyota, even though when i was a little kid our family car was a Camry and our first SUV was a 4Runner, it was my mom's favorite car until the present X5 she has Disliking Toyota is fine, but when your hatred is of the "such and such Toyota car sucks purely because it's a Toyota, and therefore it possesses no good qualities at all" variety, you're officially a tool. I'm not the world's biggest Ford fan, but I've got Ford-related products in my family (Mazda3), and I fully realize that the majority of Ford's lineup is very competitive. There's a difference between not liking a car company and disparaging every product it offers without regard to the merits of said products. Example: I hate the Expedition, but it's easy to see that it beats the Tahoe hands-down in terms of overall utility. Many people buy SUVs with utility as a top priority, and for that reason I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Expedition to somebody looking at large SUVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I don't think it will be that strong of a seller for GM. With gas prices going up, I don't see demand for V8 cars going up drastically.Gas prices have been going up and down for atleast 5 years now. I know I've been hearing $5 gas is coming within 2 months for the last 5 years. Plus, I don't see people wanting to pay 33k for a Pontiac!$33k is fully loaded. The cars starts in the mid $20s. If people are willing to pay $30k for a Ford (Mustang), I don't see why they wouldn't for a Pontiac. People also said nobody would buy a Pontiac sports car yet it's the best selling roadster in America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 and you show me how the G8 will do ANYTHING For GM's bottom line - GM will barely break even (if that), sell about 2k of them a month (AT MOST) and fund this as an extensive Marketing move for Pontiac, which will fall completely flat on its face, because all the good stuff of the G8 is completely absent from the Vibe, G6, G5 or any other turd in the Pontiac lineup.Umm, Solstice and Solstice GXP? Hello!?!? The best selling roadster in America. Heck, with just those two cars Pontiac will have more excitment than Ford, Lincoln and Mercury put together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Umm, Solstice and Solstice GXP? Hello!?!? The best selling roadster in America. Heck, with just those two cars Pontiac will have more excitment than Ford, Lincoln and Mercury put together.have you seen the sales of those lately - they are down by about 30% .. and not it is not because of the winter. IT is because of the same reason why Mustang is down - the economy is in the crapper so people do not buy toys .. and that is what the G8 will be - a TOY - anyone with a wife and kids will be forced into the cheaper, more efficient W-body Impala or Taurus instead (if not Malibu/Fusion etc). Those without them will probably look into coupes. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 have you seen the sales of those lately - they are down by about 30% .. and not it is not because of the winter. IT is because of the same reason why Mustang is down - the economy is in the crapper so people do not buy toys ..Umm, you're comparing sales figures to the first year when the car was red hot. It's down 17% for the year, but GM will STILL sell the same amount of kappas as they did last year. They've shifted production to make more Skys (up 47% for the year). They have also raised the price by $2k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 have you seen the sales of those lately - they are down by about 30% .. and not it is not because of the winter. IT is because of the same reason why Mustang is down - the economy is in the crapper so people do not buy toys .. and that is what the G8 will be - a TOY - anyone with a wife and kids will be forced into the cheaper, more efficient W-body Impala or Taurus instead (if not Malibu/Fusion etc). Those without them will probably look into coupes. Igor I would much prefer a proper roadster that can go fast and is not scared of a turn than the pig-ish handling of the Mustang Also...how is the G8 a toy? Solstice, Sky, MX5, Mustang...yes, they are toys. The G8...um...no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 The G8 (Commodore SS-V) and the GT Falcon are fairly similar in performance and handling. At least Americans can sample this Aussie RWD car and imagine what a Falcon could offer. True it's only a niche - probably 50,000 sales/year at best but fill three or four niches......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 It would seem to me that GM needs to sell these car for police mode to help justify keeping them around. Its really no different IMO than any other RWD sedan in the U.S. market. Smaller retail sales should be offset by larger fleet sales for police usage. This could be the type of car that could either make Ford commit to the police fleet market or abandon it all together. The way I see it, Chevy cannot fulfill the needs of the police market with what they have right now, which is a FWD Impala or the big Tahoe. GM needs a sedan offering. I'll tell ya...the winner of the police fleets for the upcoming second decade will be who can deliver power and efficiency. I wonder if the Twin Force can accomplish this? As for the G8, I think it has a lot more potential than the GTO did. I know that I'd gravitate toward it, considering it over the Charger R/T. Throw in the SRT-8 and that may sway me back to the Dodge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) The G8 looks very similar to the last GTO. I will withhold a final opinion until I can see one in person. That said, the price point is not bad for a car with all the toys and lots of power. Too bad about the name though. You would think Pontiac would have learned something from the last time they dropped the classic names in favor of alphanumeric nonsense. Anyone remember T-1000, J-2000 6000? It would have made a nice Grand Prix. Edited November 10, 2007 by Mark B. Morrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 The G8 looks very similar to the last GTO. I will withhold a final opinion until I can see one in person. That said, the price point is not bad for a car with all the toys and lots of power. Too bad about the name though. You would think Pontiac would have learned something from the last time they dropped the classic names in favor of alphanumeric nonsense. Anyone remember T-1000, J-2000 6000? It would have made a nice Grand Prix. Huh? Looks like the GTO? I am not so sure... As for the naming...it does seem like it is out in left field a bit, but they already have the G5 and G6. Any three year old will tell you which is the bigger car and which is the smaller car. However, I do think a new set of names should have been slapped to these cars. Oh well, makes more sense than the Lincoln alphabet soup naming system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) The G8 looks very similar to the last GTO. I will withhold a final opinion until I can see one in person. That said, the price point is not bad for a car with all the toys and lots of power. Too bad about the name though. You would think Pontiac would have learned something from the last time they dropped the classic names in favor of alphanumeric nonsense. Anyone remember T-1000, J-2000 6000? It would have made a nice Grand Prix. Mark, I have, well ok my wife drives a 2000 Commodore SS, similar to the GTO but with a 4-door body. When we park next to the new Zeta Commodores, they are far more imposing! When you see it in the flesh, You'll know what I mean. Your patrolmen are going to go ape shit over this car: Edited November 10, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 The naming sucks, sounds like a Bingo tournament gone wrong. As for me, it's too Aussie and too small. Give me a new 1996 Impala SS please, flame on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 Your patrolmen are going to go ape shit over this car: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) JPD80, Thanks for the pics. That is one hot looking Cop Car looks like a Pace Car edition over here. //That's some damn fine police work Lou. Edited November 10, 2007 by Mark B. Morrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) Huh? Looks like the GTO? I am not so sure... I forget how much the GTO looked like... a Grand Prix circa 1999. Sigh. Edited November 10, 2007 by Roadrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBear Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 That truth is sad. Lincoln, a once prestigious brand has been reduced to a trim level on a Ford. How short was that straw? I think the straw had the name "Jaguar" on it. 1zvft82h065156082.pdf 1ZVHT82H565143742.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 I forget how much the GTO looked like... a Grand Prix circa 1999. Sigh. I loved it. Aggressive and subtle at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) I loved it. Aggressive and subtle at the same time. yeah for a jelly bean Or better yet it looked like this: Edited November 10, 2007 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) It doesn't really do anything for me. And if the motor is as unpolished and noisy and rough as the Corvette's I'm definitely not interested. Really can't say much until I drive one either way. Looks like it could be interesting though. Edited November 10, 2007 by kevinb120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 (edited) It doesn't really do anything for me. And if the motor is as unpolished and noisy and rough as the Corvette's I'm definitely not interested.I've seen or heard an LSx engine that was unpolished, noisy or rough. I can't even recall any of the girly mags making complaints. Maybe the engine you heard was cammed with longtubes. :huh: Edited November 11, 2007 by eddiehaskell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Huh? Looks like the GTO? I am not so sure... As for the naming...it does seem like it is out in left field a bit, but they already have the G5 and G6. Any three year old will tell you which is the bigger car and which is the smaller car. However, I do think a new set of names should have been slapped to these cars. Oh well, makes more sense than the Lincoln alphabet soup naming system. I always thought the GTO was too "soft" looking. The styling on the G8 much sharper and more aggressive. It's a definite improvement. It'll be interesting to see how well it does. I believe being a sedan instead of a coupe will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 I've seen or heard an LSx engine that was unpolished, noisy or rough. I can't even recall any of the girly mags making complaints. Maybe the engine you heard was cammed with longtubes. :huh: Yeah, under normal driving, the LS4 5.3 V8 in my grandma's Rainier is silent. It is also amazingly smooth...so smooth in fact that you cannot feel it running at idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 yeah for a jelly bean Or better yet it looked like this: No, here's what the GTO looked like: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 (edited) I'd be curious to know with the current market conditions exactly how many Hemi V8 equipped Chargers and 300's are selling right now. I bet it's 80% or higher V6 right now. I'm not opposed to Ford offering a car like this, but they need to be in better shape before they take their focus off of the mainstream market and start building cars like this. Oh I just had to add that 17/24 on a V6 300 is poor mileage compared to it's FWD competitors like the Taurus. Do RWD cars get worse fuel economy or is it just Chrysler? I know GM has been developing a plan to keep the Impala FWD because of fuel economy concerns. Edited November 11, 2007 by 2005Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I'd be curious to know with the current market conditions exactly how many Hemi V8 equipped Chargers and 300's are selling right now. I bet it's 80% or higher V6 right now. I'm not opposed to Ford offering a car like this, but they need to be in better shape before they take their focus off of the mainstream market and start building cars like this. Around here, I've noticed about a 60/40 in favor of the V6 LXs....just from looking at tailpipes. Oh I just had to add that 17/24 on a V6 300 is poor mileage compared to it's FWD competitors like the Taurus. Do RWD cars get worse fuel economy or is it just Chrysler? I know GM has been developing a plan to keep the Impala FWD because of fuel economy concerns. Chrysler is always running television advertising of 28 MPG HWY outta their LXs, Charger and 300. I assumed that was the V6? :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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