WHO ON THIS FORUM LIKES PAYING FOR SOCIAL SERVICES FOR PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO WORK?,

[RichardJensen]

ADM is no longer the largest ethanol producer, and soon will be bumped to #3.

 

By summer/fall of next year, the two largest ethanol producers will be SD based startups. The bulk of their facilities are farmer owned co-ops with management contracts.

 

Ethanol production has driven up the price of corn to the point that LDPs are no longer necessary in many places, therefore cost to the taxpayer has gone down, due to ethanol production. Eliminate the ethanol subsidy and you're looking at a lot of money going back to farmers for LDPs. At least the ethanol subsidy produces a marketable product.

 

And anyways, this isn't a party thing, this is a farm state thing. Plenty of elected officials on both sides of the aisle support the ethanol (and bio diesel) subsidies.

Edited November 12, 2007 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

Also Americans spend the least amount of disposable income on food of any nation on earth. "True cost" of ethanol indeed........ Why not look at the true cost of oil futures speculation if you want to really make your blood boil?

[BlackHorse]

Why not look at the true cost of oil futures speculation if you want to really make your blood boil?

 

Already did, boiled over.

[J-150]

I have an issue with people only wotking for 30 years and then expecting to get pensions for another 30.

 

Sorry, the math doesn't work.

[BlackHorse]

I have an issue with people only wotking for 30 years and then expecting to get pensions for another 30.

 

Sorry, the math doesn't work.

 

Well lets see. Maybe I can help you.

 

Finish college.

 

Start career at age 23.

 

Work 30 years.

 

Retire.

 

Start over at age 53 because somebody thinks you still got 30 good years left.

 

Good luck finding meaningful employment at age 53.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2007 by BlackHorse

[Furious1Auto]

I don't usually see a conspiracy behind every Gov't program. Usually just see stupidity. But do agrree with you this ethanol program is just a political deal for ADM and others. Even in the face of a lot of data about what it's true costs are in food prices, etc, it's full speed ahead for gov't spenders on this program. There are so many better crops to use for a program like this.

 

The Republicam party is losing me. Sure wish there was a viable independent candidate.

You can say that again, just because I may not vote Republican doesn't mean that I would ever vote for Hilary, or Obama! Being that Hilary wants drivers licenses for illegals Obama looks better but I don't want to be limited to Those two!

[matthewq4b]

You can say that again, just because I may not vote Republican doesn't mean that I would ever vote for Hilary, or Obama! Being that Hilary wants drivers licenses for illegals Obama looks better but I don't want to be limited to Those two!

 

 

Ah yes the wonders of a 2 party system.

 

Here in our veiw we have leftwing, center, rightwing ,and sepratist party's in the House. Mind you from the American point of veiw of our politcal parties they are communist, socialist , leftwing and treasonous .

 

 

Matthew

Edited November 12, 2007 by matthewq4b

[suv_guy_19]

Ah yes the wonders of a 2 party system.

 

Here in our veiw we have leftwing, center, rightwing ,and sepratist party's in the House. Mind you from the American point of veiw of our politcal parties they are communist, socialist , leftwing and treasonous .

Matthew

 

 

Oh man, I couldn't have said it better myself lol .

[Furious1Auto]

Ah yes the wonders of a 2 party system.

 

Here in our veiw we have leftwing, center, rightwing ,and sepratist party's in the House. Mind you from the American point of veiw of our politcal parties they are communist, socialist , leftwing and treasonous .

Matthew

GEEZ, you could have just summed it up by saying Democratic party!

Edited November 12, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[suv_guy_19]

GEEZ, you could have just summed it up by saying Democratic party!

 

 

Actually, what's really funny about it, is that what you consider left wing (Democrats), the rest of the world considers right wing, and what you consider right wing (GOP), the rest of the world considers ultra right wing.

Edited November 12, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[RichardJensen]

Ah yes the wonders of a 2 party system.

 

Here in our veiw we have leftwing, center, rightwing ,and sepratist party's in the House. Mind you from the American point of veiw of our politcal parties they are communist, socialist , leftwing and treasonous .

Matthew

Two party system in the U.S. is probably because the U.S. doesn't have a parliamentary democracy.

 

The nationwide election of a single candidate for the supreme executive office has probably contributed to the 2 party system as the U.S. has seldom had periods with anything other than a weak 3rd party. Two party isn't a new thing, it goes back to the beginnings of the federal republic.

 

By contrast, most parliamentary democracies seem to have an abundance of political parties....

Edited November 12, 2007 by RichardJensen

[suv_guy_19]

Two party system in the U.S. is probably because the U.S. doesn't have a parliamentary democracy.

 

The nationwide election of a single candidate for the supreme executive office has probably contributed to the 2 party system as the U.S. has seldom had periods with anything other than a weak 3rd party. Two party isn't a new thing, it goes back to the beginnings of the federal republic.

 

By contrast, most parliamentary democracies seem to have an abundance of political parties....

 

 

We do have an abundance of parties, but only 4 ever make it into the House of Commons and only 2 have ever governed because of the first past the post system used here. Only the 2 parties that have governed have had the opportunity to appoint Senators.

Edited November 12, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[Furious1Auto]

What added value has so many different party's brought to Canadian politics if any?

[suv_guy_19]

What added value has so many different party's brought to Canadian politics if any?

 

 

Well, IMO, the separatist Bloc Quebecuois brings nothing to the table, but that's just my opinion. They are a left leaning party in most cases The NDP (New Democratic Party) is the one that leans to the left and is represented across the country. They are the union party. The Liberals are, well, liberal, and the Conservatives are Republican lite. What it does add is many different views on an issue and keeps the governing party accountable. No matter what party is in power, the politics of the government get corralled to the middle by the other parties concerns. IMO in most cases it works quite well.

[RichardJensen]

BTW, Matt, the U.S. take on Canadian parties was pretty funny.

[jpd80]

We do have an abundance of parties, but only 4 ever make it into the House of Commons and only 2 have ever governed because of the first past the post system used here. Only the 2 parties that have governed have had the opportunity to appoint Senators.

In Australia, we have preferential voting for multiple candidates, you number each box (1,2,3,4 ect,) in decending order of preference.

In preferential voting systems the two leading candidates count primary votes and other parties then deliver their voters second choice preferences to the lead candidates. In a close race, preferences are crucial.

 

It sounds a funny but it works - particularly with compulsory voting.

Edited November 12, 2007 by jpd80

[Furious1Auto]

In Australia, we have preferential voting for multiple candidates, you number each box (1,2,3,4 ect,) in decending order of preference.

In preferential voting systems the two leading candidates count primary votes and other parties then deliver their voters second choice preferences to the lead candidates. In a close race, preferences are crucial.

 

It sounds a funny but it works - particularly with compulsory voting.

That's better than the U.S. system in the fact that I would not have to push for a candidate to win their party nomination in order to be able to vote for them! Could you imagine the anger from members of congress if the American public were to force preferential voting on them RJ! Right now they have to promise favors and kiss the a-s of their party to get the nomination!

Edited November 12, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[EBV8]

Actually, what's really funny about it, is that what you consider left wing (Democrats), the rest of the world considers right wing, and what you consider right wing (GOP), the rest of the world considers ultra right wing.

 

Wow! GOP is considered Ultra Right Wing? Just a question... what comes after that?

 

I'd be comfortable with zealot. :reading:

[joihan777]

Actually, what's really funny about it, is that what you consider left wing (Democrats), the rest of the world considers right wing, and what you consider right wing (GOP), the rest of the world considers ultra right wing.

 

 

I'm fine with that. The rest of the world is behind the US in almost every conceivable way. So I won't lose any sleep over what the rest of the world opines.

[BlackHorse]

I'm fine with that. The rest of the world is behind the US in almost every conceivable way. So I won't lose any sleep over what the rest of the world opines.

 

 

First let me must say ament to that joihan.

 

You guys say the rest of the world? Exactly whom do you mean? You mean europe and the remaining English commonwealths. To that end these have always been countries where the masses were lorded over by the few, the select elite ruling class as it were. It's the same today as it was then they have just gotten better about fooling you into believing that you are not oppressed. Even SUV admits there are really only two ruling parties in Canada when you get right down to it. Todays socialst country is just a new spin on yesterdays ruling monarchy. They just dress it up in a different color, call it something else and you believe you have a say. But you don't, not really.

 

Now a couple of hundred years ago something really amazing happened. A new nation was born. It was born out of fire and it's heart and mettle was put to the most punishing and severe test any new nation at that time could hope or fear to take on. The British Empire, who's power was unchallenged in the world. They commanded the seas and the sun never truly set upon them. They had the best trained most well equipped soldiers on the planet. But the American colonists stood their ground, for what was right and ultimately to announce to the world "We will not be subject to your oppression one day longer, even if it means we must lay down our lives to be rid of it. We will be free or there shall be not one of us left!"

 

This new nation cast off and threw out the ruling class system of the old world. In it's place we created a nation where we truly believed that all men must be equal and free. It has not been without it's trials and tribulations. The pox of slavery had to be washed away allowing that all men truly could be equal. This was yet another epic struggle that nearly destroyed our young nation. But ultimately the side of righteousness won out and the plauge of slavery was removed from our land. It has not been an easy road but it has surely been an interesting one. I think it is true of nations as it is of people, the most interesting and strong ones are the ones that have expereinced the most adversity. There has been much adversity here.

 

Over time our citizens, however, have become lax. The sting of battle and the struggle to maintain our freedom has not been tasted amidst our population for some time now. And while we have become complacent and comfortable, clever politicans have come along with promises and flowery rhetoric. They are not limited to one party mind you, but in fact you can find the well wishers and the fair weather friends on both sides of the spectrum. They seek power, and wealth and they seek it at our expense. They are the nothing more then the modern day version of a group that seeks to be the new ruling class, the new elite. I fear that we will one day wake up and find that all that our fore fathers fought for has been given away by a generation of unsuspecting and easily fooled sheep.

 

To men like SUV I can only say that we are not so different as you might think my friend. The prospect of things like free health care is indeed enticing. Our health care system in America is not without it's huge faults. It is not right that a person should be subjected to paying out hundreds of thousands of dollars for the rest of their life simply because they fell ill and had neither the money nor the insurance to pay for their medical costs. What manner of species are we that we would treat our own this way? Shouldn't we be providing health care to all, free of charge and not only that but the best possible health care a person can get simply because it is the right thing to do? The moral and honorable and right thing. And so along comes someone with an olive branch and a proposal that says "Hey, I can make such a world for you if you would but only put me in power." What price are we about to pay for this olive branch? Will we be Judas? Will we sacrifice everything our fore fathers fought and died for?

 

It is indeed interesting times that we live in. I believe that America, indeed the world is on the verge of some great shift. A complete change in our paradigm as it were. We face great adversity. What if Al Gore is right, and we are killing our own world? What if he's not? Dare we trust him and his kind? What price will we pay if he is but a two bit con man with an agenda? What price will we pay if he's not? What price will our children pay?

 

Everything must change and I believe we are drawing close to that great change. But as we go forward I for one hope that we can find a way to change this world for the better. That we rid it of social classes, and tyranny and drive from our midst those that seek only to rule out of lust for power and wealth. What we need are leaders that understand that leadership is the effort to do the right thing for everyone else, even at the expense of ones self.

 

Sorry to rant on fellas. I'm going to get some sleep now.

[matthewq4b]

What added value has so many different party's brought to Canadian politics if any?

\

 

Actually Quite alot. While we have had only 2 Ruling party's in the House of Commons but almost every party has govenred each province at one time or anouther. You get alot of trickle down (or up) effect in to the House cause of it. Lots of times programs or ideas introduced by one party that have a lot of support across the nation get robbed and modified by the ruling party and called their own. This happens even on the provincial leval.

 

Our Healthcare system was born out of the old CCF Party (now the NDP ) in Sask and was brought to a national leval by Diefenbakers Conservatives. He seen the gathering support for universal healthcare and jumped on Board. Pearson (Liberal) expanded the on the ground work laid by Dief and our universal healthcare was born.

A Provicial CCF (NDP) program adopted by the Federal Conservatives and expanded by the Federal Liberals. If we had just a 2 party system there is dam good chance we would not have universal healthcare.

 

The fiscal responsibilty platfrom started by Preston Manning's Federal Reform Party was Adopted by Alberta's King Ralph ( Ralph Klein,Conservative) and was slowly adopted by Chrétien Liberals. And every other party in the country. Even the NDP softened their spending policy's and adopted a more fiscaly repsonsible stand point.

 

Having Multiple party's sitting in the house leads to a more dynamic government. The Ruling party is not just facing one opponent but at least 2 or even 3 that are usually making up provical goverments across the nation that have different points of veiw and and look at thing differently. It allows for many different solutions to exsisting problems to be brought to the attention of the public and the House of Commons.

Like any problem the more people that look at it the more solutions you get and a better chance you have of finding the right one.

 

Now that we have a Coalition Government this is even more prominent currently we have the perfect government for our system. No one holds absolute power. The current ruling party is not strong enough to out right win anouther election or try to ram stuff through Parliment. And the opposing party's are not overly strong. No wants to rock the boat to much and force an election. Yet everyone is trying to show positve results to sway public opinon to gain votes. No party is going to shoot down good legislation brought forward including the Ruling party, they would look like shmucks for doing so. Nor is the ruling party going to try ram bad or unpopular legislation through the house. It is the ideal situation as every one is being held acountable.

 

The Bloc Quebecuois actually have a lot decent ideas and policy's once you get past their separatist agenda if they actully were a national party they would pose a serious threat to the Liberals and Conservatives. They are similar to the Old Reform party only a little closer center and with a separatist agenda. They have taken the best in each of the 3 major parties and made it their own. They want lower buisness and personal taxes, more fiscal responsibilty stiffer penial laws. more acountabilty etc, basically every thing the right stands for, yet they support Childcare and expanding healthcare and want a better social saftey net, the stuff the left stands for.

Many here in the west say if they were a national party with no separatist agenda they would have their vote. Are they Left ?? Are they right ?? It all depends on your point of veiw. They by far are the closest to center. Now if they would get off this separatist kick they might actually amount to something.

The one thing you can say about them is they look out for the people of Quebec far better than any other party looks out for the rest of the people in Canada.

Harpers Conservatives have actually robbed some the Bloc's ideas and called them their own.

 

RichardJensen Posted Yesterday, 09:21 PM

BTW, Matt, the U.S. take on Canadian parties was pretty funny.

 

What is even funnier is it is the truth lol

 

 

joihan777 Posted Today, 12:36 AM

I'm fine with that. The rest of the world is behind the US in almost every conceivable way.

 

 

Not any more. As the U.S moves futher to the right away from center it's standing in almost all catagory's is falling. From leval of health to standard of living to disposable income. The US now lags behind nations that once were not even within sight in some catagory's not that long ago.

 

 

Matthew

Edited November 12, 2007 by matthewq4b

[jpd80]

That's better than the U.S. system in the fact that I would not have to push for a candidate to win their party nomination in order to be able to vote for them! Could you imagine the anger from members of congress if the American public were to force preferential voting on them RJ! Right now they have to promise favors and kiss the a-s of their party to get the nomination!

I'll tell you what ultra consrevative governments do.

We've had John Howard as Prime Minister of Australia for 11 1/2 years,

his party, the liberals - a terrible misnomer because they're as bad as the English Tory Party

scrapped the old industrial relations system in this country last year.

 

People now have AWAs - Australian Workplace agreements with

one-on-one contracts with your employer.

there are also provision for collective agreements as well but in all this ,

the Trade Unions have been removed from negotiations, they don't have

right of access to work places and it's illegal for the union

to be mentioned in AWAs or CBAs - $36,000 fine for every offence.

 

After many complaints, a government watchdog was set up to review workplace agreements

under the "fairness test". A worker has certain conditions that if negotiated away must be

compensated for by a higher rate of pay. Of 50,000 agreements reviewed so far, over half

have been rejected for failing the fairness test.

 

On top of that there is a back log of over 140,000 agreements yet to be processed.

Low wage earners are the ones who are being screwed the worst, having conditions removed

like sick leave and holiday pay but meerly 30c/hour compensation.

 

Australian Federal election is on Saturday November 24, Voting is compulsory.

Latest opinion polls predict a landslide victory for the oppositon Labor party.

Deeply rooted in Union support, the labor Party is a lot like the Democrats.

Funny thing is there are Republicans on both sides of politics but the monarchists still hold sway.

 

We live in interesting times.

Edited November 12, 2007 by jpd80

[joihan777]

Not any more. As the U.S moves futher to the right away from center it's standing in almost all catagory's is falling. From leval of health to standard of living to disposable income. The US now lags behind nations that once were not even within sight in some catagory's not that long ago.

Matthew

 

I beg to differ. The only country that, in my opinion, comes close to America's standards is Japan. They've had several thousand years to build their society. Due to a smaller, mainly homogeneous society they have been able to reassemble their nation after WW2 and indeed propel their economy upwards. The crime rate there is smaller than the US and it *seems* that they enjoy a high standard of living. Their country is smaller and mostly homogeneous so social adjustmants are quicker to accomplish. They simply do not have the confluence of cultures that make up American society. And Japanese level of health isn't due to the government's wisdom. It's primarily due to the culture, and even then it's mostly in Okinawa.... not in Tokyo. Japan's culture is currently experiencing a moral degradation and their economic growth has slowed. And no one seems to be counting free time in the standards of living polls, because Japanese folks have a lot less free time than Americans. And have you seen those tiny living quarters? No thanks. Who ever is tallying up the 'standard of living' numbers isn't seeing the big picture. I've stayed there numerous times and in different locales over the past few years so I know this from first hand knowledge. I'll take cowboyism to gerbilism any day of the week. So if some people think that the US is behind in some categories, well I think overall my country (Man I love saying that) is still the best place to live on Earth bar none. I guess some folks will have to wee on the fence for themselves. (see sig.)

 

America's greatest asset is it's variety of cultures living together. Ever been to an American restuarant? If your first thought ran to McDonald's then you don't really know this marvelous land. Our multiculturism, however, takes a long time to master.

 

It is true that America's economy and moral state have not been doing as well the last few years, but keep in mind we are dealing with the power hungry socialist/commie cum democrat hippies from the 70's that are now in position to milk this country for all its worth. And at the same time America allows former enemy states increased wealth in order to win the cold war (YES that's right folks the cold war isn't completely over) against communism by letting all citizens from around the world to enjoy a little of what American have come to expect as normal. With the internet as the great equalizer (after education) and after communism and humanism-based socialism have been dropped like moldy bread THEN you will see America's long term sacrifices pay off for the benefit of all mankind. This eventual win-win strategy is the kind of strategy a father would want to see his children work out between themselves.

 

When the rest of the left-leaning world leaders realize it's in their citizens' interest to stand by America then our job will be made all the easier and our level of sacrifice will be reduced.

 

Another point. When employers choose to screw their employees out of fair wages, that ISN'T capitalism, that is ABUSE OF CAPITALISM. Don't get em' confused. Our young country took several hundred years to figure out "All men are equal," so please forgive us if we're still working on the finer points. We're at the point that I can hold hands with my black & white brothers and sisters from where ever they may be from. We're working on the rich & poor ones too.

Edited November 12, 2007 by joihan777

[Anthony]

Ugh....why are threads like this in the Ford Motor Company forum?

[suv_guy_19]

Ugh....why are threads like this in the Ford Motor Company forum?

 

 

Like I said, its fun.