Lincoln Rumors

[RichardJensen]

And as Lincoln plays downward in the pricing scheme, with little in the way of styling / sheetmetal uniqueness unto itself, Mercury is left with nowhere to go.

 

So yes, in a line of thinking... it can be argued that Lincoln has indeed become Mercury. MkS notwithstanding.

See I don't get this whole "Lincoln plays downward" thing.

 

The LS V6 was $32k. The MKZ is $29k. Is that a downward move? Not necessarily.

 

Furthermore, without major sheetmetal differences, Mercury draws in a different customer base. My thinking, therefore, is do what you need to do to draw profitable customers. Don't do -more- than necessary, as you lose your profit margin (e.g. selling Euro-Fords as Mercuries at a substantially lower margin--if not at a net loss), but don't do less than necessary either (e.g. exact same interior materials, only a different grille insert, etc.)

 

See, this whole theory of Mercury's irrelevance is, IMO, based on a false premise: That Lincoln is moving 'downward'; it's not. The MKZ is cheaper than the LS in MSRP, however, it is not so much cheaper that it is no longer an entry level luxury model. In fact the improved content, makes the MKZ a superior offering to the LS in many ways, regardless of price, therefore the low price is not necessarily a sign that Lincoln is going down market. In fact, Lincoln is not decontenting any of its offerings, it is, rather offering comparable content at a lower price. I don't consider that moving down market at all.

 

Yes, yes, it is a cheap entry level lux model, but neither in standard equipment, nor in power, nor in available options is it a downmarket car. From the 260+hp engine to the genuine wood and metal accents, the MKZ is a class above the Milan.

 

Of course, there should be greater sheetmetal differentiation with the MKZ; however, let's not jump to the conclusion that Lincoln is going to be selling $24k fullsize sedans with cloth seats (Buick, Chrysler) any time soon.

Edited November 19, 2007 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

Also, goingincirclez, "MKS not withstanding" is a pretty huge caveat.

 

it's like saying, "Lincoln is going down market, except for their most important product launch since the LS"

[sranger]

And I reiterate. When was this ever the case? When did Mercury ever command a higher price than a comparable Ford?

 

 

Interesting point. In a few cases, I have found that a fully loaded Ford is often HIGHER than Mercury with the same options due to the fact that more options are packaged ( or standard ) in the Mercury than the equivalent Ford...

 

This was true when I was shopping Escape vs. Mariner. Once I added the options that I wanted to the Escape it was nearly $100.00 more than the Mariner with the same options ( actually the Mariner had one additional features in the package that I wanted. )

 

If you tend to like well-optioned vehicles, the Merc can often be a better value...

 

As for Lincoln, they have to shake the "It's an old fart car" image or it will NEVER be accepted as a true luxury brand like Lexus, BWM, Mercedes, Infinity, Etc. It is the same problem the Buick has. I honestly think this was the biggest mistake Ford has made recently. I believe that it would have been easier to move the Mercury name up-scale than Lincoln. When I ask the younger group if they would consider a Lincoln or Mercury most will say Mercury. When I ask why most state that they still consider Lincoln as an "old fart" or "soccer mom" brand. I think it is going to take a huge ( and highly focused ) ad campaign to change this paradigm.

Edited November 19, 2007 by sranger

[jpd80]

Would that caveart als also include the Lincoln Flex?

And Lincoln MKR a little further on as well?

[goingincirclez]

Also, goingincirclez, "MKS not withstanding" is a pretty huge caveat.

 

it's like saying, "Lincoln is going down market, except for their most important product launch since the LS"

 

Yeah, well it remains to be seen if the MkS is a true touchstone for consistency in things to come, or if it will be another flash in the pan... just like the LS was.

 

If they keep on the same M.O. as they have with the rest of the lineup, it very well could be. The MkFlex will be the next test.

[RichardJensen]

I've got a mental image of the MKFlex--I'm thinking it will make the rest of the segment look like they're standing still.

 

I figure we'll see the same subtle fender flares and chamfered shoulder line that we saw on the MKR & MKS; with a bolder grille, and a dramatic D pillar shape (I'm thinking a fairly steep rake, and wider overall than anything else.

 

My thinking is that critics will say that it looks like the Enclave, but that it will, IMO, make the Enclave look like a cheap knockoff.

Edited November 19, 2007 by RichardJensen

[NLPRacing]

I've got a mental image of the MKFlex--I'm thinking it will make the rest of the segment look like they're standing still.

 

I figure we'll see the same subtle fender flares and chamfered shoulder line that we saw on the MKR & MKS; with a bolder grille, and a dramatic D pillar shape (I'm thinking a fairly steep rake, and wider overall than anything else.

 

My thinking is that critics will say that it looks like the Enclave, but that it will, IMO, make the Enclave look like a cheap knockoff.

 

That's what I am hoping for...

[taxman100]

Interesting point. In a few cases, I have found that a fully loaded Ford is often HIGHER than Mercury with the same options due to the fact that more options are packaged ( or standard ) in the Mercury than the equivalent Ford...

 

This was true when I was shopping Escape vs. Mariner. Once I added the options that I wanted to the Escape it was nearly $100.00 more than the Mariner with the same options ( actually the Mariner had one additional features in the package that I wanted. )

 

If you tend to like well-optioned vehicles, the Merc can often be a better value...

 

As for Lincoln, they have to shake the "It's an old fart car" image or it will NEVER be accepted as a true luxury brand like Lexus, BWM, Mercedes, Infinity, Etc. It is the same problem the Buick has. I honestly think this was the biggest mistake Ford has made recently. I believe that it would have been easier to move the Mercury name up-scale than Lincoln. When I ask the younger group if they would consider a Lincoln or Mercury most will say Mercury. When I ask why most state that they still consider Lincoln as an "old fart" or "soccer mom" brand. I think it is going to take a huge ( and highly focused ) ad campaign to change this paradigm.

 

Mercury and Ford have traditionally went after different markets - Mercury was aimed at an older, more conservative demographic. Before that, Mercury was marketed more to men. Either way, it was a more affluent demographic than Ford, but not as showy as people who bought a Lincoln. Mercury and Buick were more direct competitors.

 

Today Ford wants to market Mercury to women and urban markets, and Ford to the mass market. The tradtional clientele of Mercury is basically being told to go pound sand - that is the demographic that is abandoning Ford for General Motors and Japanese vehicles such as the Avalon. All you have to do is compare Mercury sales this year to say, 1997.

 

I think that Lexus is mostly a brand that appeals to women, Infiniti more to men. Acura is for Honda owners who want to spend more money for whatever reason - they have a confused marketplace position, much like Lincoln.

 

I know Ford is downsizing, so they can no longer sell to every market. Apparently the old Mercury (and Lincoln, for that matter) customer is being abandoned by Ford, with the hope the new demographics will make up the sales.

[goingincirclez]

I figure we'll see the same subtle fender flares and chamfered shoulder line that we saw on the MKR & MKS; with a bolder grille, and a dramatic D pillar shape (I'm thinking a fairly steep rake, and wider overall than anything else.

 

That would be sweet, and a definite step in the right direction. The fact that they've been so mum with leaks and other design insights has me very hopeful that they're planning to come from left field with something just like that.

 

How wild would that be... Ford gets the box and Lincoln gets the curves. Proper Lincoln Distinction!

 

I sure hope so... because for credibility's sake they can't afford to phone in a GLC (grille, light, & chrome) job, a-la MkX, again.

[RichardJensen]

In all fairness, the MKX is pretty well realized, even if it is basically the same as the Edge. This as opposed to the MKZ & Fusion which are not very well realized--they are not as well sorted out design wise.

 

However, the MKX like the MKZ was frozen before Horbury was brought on board, and in any event Ford NA was moving toward greater differentiation with Lincoln. The D3 crossover will be very different from the Flex.

[ANTAUS]

The back side profile of the Lincoln Flex seems to be much sleaker, instead of upright. Reminds me a bit of the profile of the Quest with touch more rake and pronounced "hips".

[LincolnFan]

The back side profile of the Lincoln Flex seems to be much sleaker, instead of upright. Reminds me a bit of the profile of the Quest with touch more rake and pronounced "hips".

 

How do you know this?

[NickF1011]

How do you know this?

 

For the umpteenth time, back when Ford leaked images of the Flex in their Bold Moves documentary, there were sketches on a back wall of the profile of the Flex and some other obviously "Flex-based-vehicle".....

[Moby Vic]

And from that you're certain that it was the approved production version?

[NickF1011]

And from that you're certain that it was the approved production version?

 

Certain? Of course not. But it's the only indication we have....well, that and several Ford executives who have said that it won't share one square inch of sheet metal.

[hbalek]

Certain? Of course not. But it's the only indication we have....well, that and several Ford executives who have said that it won't share one square inch of sheet metal.

 

It was said by a design person at Ford, maybe Horbury, that the Lincoln version's look was inspired by the sleek and powerful shape of Gulfstream Corporate Jets.

[RichardJensen]

It was said by a design person at Ford, maybe Horbury, that the Lincoln version's look was inspired by the sleek and powerful shape of Gulfstream Corporate Jets.

Oooooooooo!!!!!!!!! You know what that means????????

 

Tailfins are coming back!!!!!!!

[armadamaster]

The only "MK" Lincoln should be a Mk IX.

 

They need a flagship Continental, an updated livery Town Car, and a Mark. Done. No trucks, no crossovers--just pure, traditional American luxury.

 

For the most part, I agree, with one exception. No Navigator?

[suv_guy_19]

For the most part, I agree, with one exception. No Navigator?

 

 

I will now thank God that neither of you are product planners.

[P71_CrownVic]

For the most part, I agree, with one exception. No Navigator?

To combat what?? The Escalade?

[one2gamble]

To combat what?? The Escalade?

 

 

you dont need to "combat" anything, Ford shouldnt only be in markets that already have large players. They should be creating new markets.

[P71_CrownVic]

you dont need to "combat" anything, Ford shouldnt only be in markets that already have large players. They should be creating new markets.

 

I agree, but what market are they creating with the Navigator?

[suv_guy_19]

I agree, but what market are they creating with the Navigator?

 

They sell enough Navigators. The market already exists.

[one2gamble]

I agree, but what market are they creating with the Navigator?

 

 

Thats pretty much a market they created, why not stay in it with a quality product that has a decent following.

 

The point is that for Ford to survive they need to exist in both mainstream and niche markets that may or may not exist yet.

[RichardJensen]

you dont need to "combat" anything, Ford shouldnt only be in markets that already have large players. They should be creating new markets.

Also, if your focus is on your competitor's product you basically are ceding market analysis to them.

 

You miss chances to discover untapped consumer desires because you're too busy trying to build the world's second best 5-Series, 3-Series, Camry, etc.

 

Benchmarking has its place; however, it, like market research, is no substitute for innovation.

 

Ford has to focus on the marketplace, not its competitors.