Ford and Chrysler to merge?

[suv_guy_19]

Not exactly.

 

The Chrysler LX platform is, for the most part, carried over from the old Intrepid/Concorde/300M LH platform. The LH was originally designed to be either FWD or RWD, hence the longitudinally mounted engines. Mercedes donated the rear axle from the E-Class, as well as their 5-speed automatic transmission, and some interior switchgear. That's it. All of its engines are pure Chrysler, as well as almost the entire chassis and other mechanical components.

 

 

From what I know. The rear suspension is from Mercedes and the front is from the Chrysler LH.

[rmc523]

From what I know. The rear suspension is from Mercedes and the front is from the Chrysler LH.

 

I like the new avatar suv_guy!

[suv_guy_19]

I like the new avatar suv_guy!

 

I thought it was friendly looking lol.

[Traveler]

The LX platform was already in development (as was the Hemi) when Daimler merged with Chrysler. Because of the merger, it was more prudent at the time to use a Mercedes-designed transmission, rear suspension, steering system, seat structures and some electronics. The platform could likely have the M-B stuff engineered out of the car without the public even noticing.

[96 Pony]

Wow, the first thing you did after saying "I'm not comparing engines" was, you compared the engines.

 

*DOH* your right!

 

Look, I don't want to dog Ford 'cause I am a huge supporter of theirs. But truthfully, Chrysler has some lines that either Ford doesn't have or Ford could get some use out of.

 

Mercury is dead - Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep could be a nice alternative to Ford/Lincoln.

 

Truthfully I don't think it will happen and I think all the talk of Chrysler's demise is premature. Two years ago everyone thought GM was going under. Then everyone thought Ford was. It's Chrysler's turn now for all the speculation.

[Traveler]

Mercury is dead - Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep could be a nice alternative to Ford/Lincoln.

 

 

Good reason to kill Mercury then with that kind of speculative diversity. Of course, if Ford continued to make near clones of Ford models under different names it wouldn't matter that much. Bringing back the Sable name was a mistake. Making the Ford appear higher end than the Sable was a mistake. The Milan is boring next to the Fusion and MKZ. The Grand Marquis is dying out. Hasn't the Mountaineer already bit the bullet?? If not, I haven't seen very many. Mercury has become Ford's wasteland. There's nothing exciting about Mercury's future.

 

I really would like to see Ford and Chrysler come together, because I see Ford falling behind GM and Toyota in the next decade if things don't turn around. Ford could possibly use some of ChryslerCorp's remaining strongpoints and Chrysler models could benefit from Ford's newfound quality control and engineering. I hate to see domestic name brands like Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep perish or go into the hands of Renault/Nissan. Symbolically, it shows the domestic automakers failing to the world and like it or not, Ford could be next. We certainly don't need to see yet another foreign entity strengthened in our backyard while Ford struggles with mediocre sedan sales and a brand (Mercury) that looks like its on life support. I think a Ford/Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler/Lincoln strategy is a good one to mull over for the future.

 

And I'm not that superstitious about Jeep. The problem with Jeep has been the owners; not the brand. Furthermore Chrysler has had Jeep for two decades. That's not exactly a failure and the lineup now is as expanded as it ever has been and seemingly very popular. The Wrangler Unlimited has been a hit despite its rather small target audience. Heck, I'd even like to have one.

 

I say that a Ford/Chrysler merger not only strengthens the two companies but fortifies the appearance of the domestic brands in our own backyard and competes well against GM as well.

[Mark B. Morrow]

Good reason to kill Mercury then with that kind of speculative diversity. Of course, if Ford continued to make near clones of Ford models under different names it wouldn't matter that much. Bringing back the Sable name was a mistake. Making the Ford appear higher end than the Sable was a mistake. The Milan is boring next to the Fusion and MKZ. The Grand Marquis is dying out. Hasn't the Mountaineer already bit the bullet?? If not, I haven't seen very many. Mercury has become Ford's wasteland. There's nothing exciting about Mercury's future.

 

I really would like to see Ford and Chrysler come together, because I see Ford falling behind GM and Toyota in the next decade if things don't turn around. Ford could possibly use some of ChryslerCorp's remaining strongpoints and Chrysler models could benefit from Ford's newfound quality control and engineering. I hate to see domestic name brands like Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep perish or go into the hands of Renault/Nissan. Symbolically, it shows the domestic automakers failing to the world and like it or not, Ford could be next. We certainly don't need to see yet another foreign entity strengthened in our backyard while Ford struggles with mediocre sedan sales and a brand (Mercury) that looks like its on life support. I think a Ford/Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler/Lincoln strategy is a good one to mull over for the future.

 

And I'm not that superstitious about Jeep. The problem with Jeep has been the owners; not the brand. Furthermore Chrysler has had Jeep for two decades. That's not exactly a failure and the lineup now is as expanded as it ever has been and seemingly very popular. The Wrangler Unlimited has been a hit despite its rather small target audience. Heck, I'd even like to have one.

 

I say that a Ford/Chrysler merger not only strengthens the two companies but fortifies the appearance of the domestic brands in our own backyard and competes well against GM as well.

 

I don't see any way a Ford - Chrysler merger makes sense for Ford. Ford's plan is to get rid of overcapacity. Taking on Chrysler's plants and trying to integrate Chrysler's dysfunctional product line in to Ford would be incredibly costly. In addition, taking on Chrysler's debts and long term liabilities would cripple Ford.

 

There is barely anything in the line worth saving. The 300/Charger is dated with no replacement in sight, the Sebring/Avenger is a flop, Aspen is on its way out along with Pacifica, Crossfire and probably the PT Cruiser. Jeep is killing the Commander, Grand Cherokee is ancient, Compass and Patriot are flops and Liberty doesn't sell as well as Escape. Wrangler is the only Jeep worth much and it is a small market. If Chrysler had been in decent shape Daimler wouldn't have had to give it away.

It would be cheaper by far for Ford to retool Mercury than it would to merge with Chrysler and have to redevelop their entire line. Chrysler probably needs a deep pocket to survive long term. Based in what I have seen so far from Cerberus it doesn't look good. Cerberus hasn't shown the ability to do the long term planning and make the commitment to deal with the realities of the next few years of a smaller overall market and lower sales numbers. I think Nissan is probably the most likely buyer. Nissan has strength in Europe and Asia where Chrysler is insignificant.

[rmc523]

Hasn't the Mountaineer already bit the bullet?? If not, I haven't seen very many. Mercury has become Ford's wasteland. There's nothing exciting about Mercury's future.

 

I say that a Ford/Chrysler merger not only strengthens the two companies but fortifies the appearance of the domestic brands in our own backyard and competes well against GM as well.

 

No the Mountaineer is still around. I don't see very many either, so you're not alone.

 

I see what you're saying about 'domestic strength' or whatever you'd like to call it, but as Mark B. Morrow said, I don't think it'd be a smart or financially/productionally sound decision to merge w/ Chrysler. It basically ads the dead weight that Ford has been working on cutting out back, IMO.

[Furious1Auto]

No the Mountaineer is still around. I don't see very many either, so you're not alone.

The SUV market (Explorer and Mountaineer) is turning to more fuel efficiant CUV's!

[rmc523]

The SUV market (Explorer and Mountaineer) is turning to more fuel efficiant CUV's!

 

Good point.

[Biker16]

Wow whole article based one line in another article:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/26/magazines/...sion=2007122706

 

Yet another reporter that has no fucking clue as how to the automotive world works and another that further compounds it

here is the thing, Chrysler has 0 global presence and by being a north American only company they are riskier investment than other automakers.

 

Rather than an out right merger it could be in their best interest to buy Ford architectures. and buy production form other automakers.

 

Chrysler needs to go big, share technologies with other makers, or be bought out.

 

It would be in Ford and Chrysler's best interest to share B2e tech for this market.

[groundassault]

FWIW......According to my high level sources inside the blueoval, Ford wants Jeep......Chrysler is going to be broken up.....GM wants the Dodge truck line for cummins and Ford wants Jeep.......Believe me or not this is what they have been talking about. Also this is why Mullay was adament about dumping LR with Jaguar, and I know I will be flamed for saying this but Ford did not need to sell LR and Jag together...The indians and the chinese would have been more then happy to take one or the other

Edited December 31, 2007 by groundassault

[campbell53]

wow.....this just got very interesting. If there is a grain of truth to this post then then next year or two will be far more volatile than most are expecting.

[Traveler]

Well, if that was to pan out as described, it certainly would give GM an opportunity to own a great deal of the pickup truck market, adding on another 200,000+ units sold as Dodges.

[TStag]

FWIW......According to my high level sources inside the blueoval, Ford wants Jeep......Chrysler is going to be broken up.....GM wants the Dodge truck line for cummins and Ford wants Jeep.......Believe me or not this is what they have been talking about. Also this is why Mullay was adament about dumping LR with Jaguar, and I know I will be flamed for saying this but Ford did not need to sell LR and Jag together...The indians and the chinese would have been more then happy to take one or the other

 

Dodgy, the plan may fail if somone else buy's Chrysler........

[Edstock]

GM wants the Dodge truck line for cummins

 

Yet GM has a good in-house diesel, plus they just sold their mid-size trucks to Navistar, so why would they want Cummins, especially when they have a new in-house diesel coming to compete with Ford's 4.whatever size CGI diesel?

 

Ford might want Jeep, but IMHO, they need a Bronco. A serious, no-frills Bronco, like the original, which seared itself into the minds of a lot of people as a serious, gut-busting, rock-crawling 4x4. The point is, for far less money than it would take to buy the rights to make a Ford Jeep, the Bronco can be a legitimate contender for the "trail-rated". People still remember the original, and newbies can get brought up to speed at the drop of a clutch: performance sells.

 

 

http://www.bajabronco.com/

Edited December 31, 2007 by Edstock

[630land]

The most ridiculous idea is "Ford could use Dodge". No way, its sinking and Ford has enough trucks! The Dakota is a huge flop. The Ram is redundant to the F 150.

 

Studebaker and Packard merged in the 50's; see how merging worked for them.

Edited December 31, 2007 by 630land

[Traveler]

The Ram is still the most popular product Chrysler has, however. I doubt very seriously if the Ram is going to go away. It represents a significant slice of the market share and it could be up for grabs. The trick will be convincing diehard MOPAR guys to continue to buy the Dodge despite it being owned by Ford or GM. I think that is much more likely than if Nissan gets a hold of it. Consider that if GM obtains Dodge trucks and can keep their sales nearly the same, they may sell Silverado, Ram and Sierra and with the Dodge, add on another 200,000 trucks to their tally at years end.

 

I don't think you can call the Dakota a huge flop. Its sales may have declined but the Dakota is 20 years old. Keep in mind that the Ranger is only about 6 years older and its future is non-existant. Producing a model for two decades doesn't qualify it at all as a flop. Now, in my opinion, the new Dakota for '08 is a much better looking truck than the '04-'07 model as it seems to incorporate the mid-nineties front end with the popular 97-04 model. Both Ford and GM have really no mid-size truck to speak of. I think Colorado and Canyon may qualify as flops after all is said and done, but Dakota has a long history. Plus, the Dakota's new generation 4.7 V8 is to make over 300 horsepower and get better mileage. Truly, the Dakota is the only truck on the market that has any chance at all domestically competing against the Tacoma for the long haul.

[StangALot]

That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard.

 

Ever heard of the Edsel?

[AlRozzi]

Ever heard of the Edsel?

 

Desoto?

 

Plymouth?

[groundassault]

Ford does need to build the Bronco....and they ARE building it.....it started on a LR Defender chasis and changed to a modified F-150 chasis with a SOLID front axle......they justified this by sharing it with the new F-100 (ranger)........but like my source said, it would be a only a single gen and then share with the wrangler....

 

Not to mention to the poster who said that chrysler might be sold off......Cerebrus is not dumb, they are worth way more broken up then they are as a full company....Jeep and Dodge by themselves are worth a lot more and chrysler is a brand that a foreign car company can use to get into the US market.....Cerebrus is a professional money machine...they know who wants what and they aren't stuckup like the Germans were when they dumped Chrysler....The indians and the chinese were willing to pay gobs of money and would have probably given too much, but their mouths are watering and will pay any price...this is what Cerebrus knows....

[SVT_MAN]

Whether or not there is any truth to the mergers, here is the one question that popped into my mind the first moment I saw a glimmer of a chance that this might happen:

 

With the underlying premise that Ford is dumping Jaguar and Land Rover because they need more cash AND because they want to reduce the global complexity and focus on their CORE business (e.g. Ford NA), how is adding the entire Chrysler corporation going to be reducing the complexity?

 

How long would it take to leverage the economies of scale with another organization that has never shared a piece of hardware with a Ford? Quite long, I'd imagine ... ?

 

Plus, what is the point of it? Other than the fact that they wouldn't have to worry about currency fluctuation (like they will if they share chassis bits with Ford of Europe or Australia), what exactly are they gaining?

 

This move would make no sense. Ford is going to come back by building quality cars and then letting the public know their cars are quality by advertising them effectively. They already have the tools at their grasp to build world-class cars. In my opinion, buying out or merging with other companies is not going to do anything except confuse and convolute the entire car industry and its consumers.

Edited January 1, 2008 by SVT_MAN

[Traveler]

Desoto?

 

Plymouth?

 

The only thing about DeSoto and Plymouth were they were both makes that were around for a number of years before their decline. DeSoto was even successful for some time and obviously Plymouth was notable brand for decades. Edsel tanked after just one or two model years. Now if you want to talk about a Chrysler brand flop...Eagle would be it.

[jpd80]

The only mergers we'll see is all of the regional Ford divisions working together, they truely acted like separate companies.

One example, Ford AUS Falcon sharing with FNA Mustang:

- Adopting corporate V6 = $2,000/car savings,

- Adopting corporate transmissions = $1,000/car.

- Adopting common platform with = $500 million/product cycle.

 

This adds up to a huge savings in costs In a small market like Australia where

local production is about 70,000 units, all Falcon related.

Edited January 2, 2008 by jpd80

[Marauder2299of7839]

after first rejecting this idea outright, I have though about it a bit, and it does have some sence to it.

 

you get the caravan, you can kill off the windstar/freestar/taurus2 with a noted winner.

drop almost all the dodge passenger car lineup, except the RWD platform with the HEMI, put the interceptor body on that, widen it 3 inches, lengthen it 5 inches, and you have a panther replacement for Grand Marquis/Town car.

kill off the dodge truck, and put the cummins in the super duty, and you have the truck that people have been wanting all along for 20 years, make the HEMI available in the F-150 and explorer.

keep the Viper, it serves a valuable purpose, and brings people into the showrooms and has bragging rights.(I would make it a mercury and or make a Lincoln version)

jeep has too many models, but it would replace land rover nicely, as well as being a much better stand alone brand, make the bronco off that line, with a HEMI available. the ranger replacement (F-100?) and the Dakota could be the same truck anyway.

 

it would also give ford 4 brands Ford/Lincoln/Mercury/Jeep (viper?)

 

if done well it would be a winner, but ford has screwed up better ideas in the past...