15 Seat Bus Crash in New Brunswick Canada: kills 7 teenagers and adult from school basketball team!!

[CivicDuty2007]

As those of you in Canada have heard(and possibly the US as well), there was a tragic crash last Friday night, seven teenagers from a school basketball team in Bathurst New Brunswick and an adult were killed when their van hit an icy patch and went into the path of an oncoming tractor trailer.

 

They were riding in a 15 seat Ford Club Wagon. Investigators are looking to see if this particular van design had any part to play in the tragedy, apparently these vans from Ford and GM, and to a lesser extent Dodge, are a safety hazard due to instability and rollovers and have been scrutinized severely because of this.

 

What do you all out there think of these vans and their potential flaws?

 

And my deepest condolences to the families involved.

[suv_guy_19]

As those of you in Canada have heard(and possibly the US as well), there was a tragic crash last Friday night, seven teenagers from a school basketball team in Bathurst New Brunswick and an adult were killed when their van hit an icy patch and went into the path of an oncoming tractor trailer.

 

They were riding in a 15 seat Ford Club Wagon. Investigators are looking to see if this particular van design had any part to play in the tragedy, apparently these vans from Ford and GM, and to a lesser extent Dodge, are a safety hazard due to instability and rollovers and have been scrutinized severely because of this.

 

What do you all out there think of these vans and their potential flaws?

 

And my deepest condolences to the families involved.

 

The GM vans are safer because there is not so much rear overhang. That said, they should all be using these and buses like it:

 

 

Crestline Coach

 

Its what the analysts are pushing for.

Edited January 15, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[7Mary3]

The GM vans are safer because there is not so much rear overhang. That said, they should all be using these and buses like it:

 

Yes, the GM 15 passenger vans have a longer wheelbase and are more stable. They

also have electronic stability control standard. In my state, you can't drive a 15 passenger

van without a class 'B' license.

[suv_guy_19]

Yes, the GM 15 passenger vans have a longer wheelbase and are more stable. They

also have electronic stability control standard. In my state, you can't drive a 15 passenger

van without a class 'B' license.

 

 

I beleive....yes....Ford fleet says: AdvanceTrac® with RSC® (Roll Stability Control),standard on all E-350 Super Duty® Wagons with 5.4L engine.

Edited January 15, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[Michael Reynolds]

I beleive....yes....Ford fleet says: AdvanceTrac® with RSC® (Roll Stability Control),standard on all E-350 Super Duty® Wagons with 5.4L engine.

 

Thanks you saved me the trouble.

[suv_guy_19]

Thanks you saved me the trouble.

 

They say what makes them unstable is the amount of weight behind the rear axle causing the front to life. Translation - Stick to the 12 passenger or get a small bus....or drive a GM I guess....

[Sixt9coug]

we have a 12 passenger work van that i drive alot. its really not a bad handler for a tank of its size. we do have 15 passenger vans in the company too, but its required to pass several exams to be able to drive them at all for work. i understand that completely.

[goinbroke2]

I heard about it on the news last night. first thing they did was talk to people and ask "how do you feel about the accident" Gimme a break! All the media were looking for is a touchy feely story.

Now they're blaming the veh??

Hmm, icy road, how many hours from moncton to bathurst 3-4? bunch of teenagers in the back bouncing around...but it's the vans fault?

 

To me it looked like a chev..what was left of it.

 

Regardless, society can't be at fault, must be something else.

Sure it's the vans fault.

What about the most deadly highway on the east coast, the #101 in the Annapolis Valley? In the winter there are WEEKLY head ons killing people. That's why they are slowly twinning it. But no your right, the vehicles they drive must be at fault, not the ice or lack of passing lanes, etc.

 

Damn vehicles...

[goinbroke2]

Oh wait, I KNOW THE STANDARD MEDIA ANSWER!

 

IT WAS THE TRUCKS FAULT!!

You see, those damn tractor trailers are so big and scary, when ever they are in an accident they kill people. And they are always on your bumper and cutting you off..I think they all take pills...yes it must be the tractor trailers fault.

 

 

<sarcasm off>

[suv_guy_19]

To me it looked like a chev..what was left of it.

 

It was a Ford. Old though I think. The brand new ones this year should be safer.

Edited January 15, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[NLPRacing]

As those of you in Canada have heard(and possibly the US as well), there was a tragic crash last Friday night, seven teenagers from a school basketball team in Bathurst New Brunswick and an adult were killed when their van hit an icy patch and went into the path of an oncoming tractor trailer.

 

They were riding in a 15 seat Ford Club Wagon. Investigators are looking to see if this particular van design had any part to play in the tragedy, apparently these vans from Ford and GM, and to a lesser extent Dodge, are a safety hazard due to instability and rollovers and have been scrutinized severely because of this.

 

What do you all out there think of these vans and their potential flaws?

 

And my deepest condolences to the families involved.

 

I've driven many vans from Ford & GM that varied from cargo to conversion to 15 passenger. The vans themselves aren't anymore dangerous then any other big vehicle. The problem is, most people driving these vehicles don't know how to drive vehicles this big. When you jerk the wheel in a big tall van, it doesn't react the same as it would in a car, which without experience and/or training, could be deadly. Plus, many of the deaths in these kinds of accidents happen from people not wearing seat belts being ejected while it rolls over. Also, most of these 15 passenger vans get way too overloaded (15 people averaging 200 pounds each plus all their gear is too much weight). No amount of electronic gimmickry can over compensate for stupidity and/or inexperience. If they need to haul this many people, and if they don't have an experienced driver, they should either charter a bus or rent two 8 passenger vehicles.

 

With the liability involved, I'm surprised Ford & GM would keep selling these things...

[GreyPony]

Icey road? How fast was he going? I don't think a Chevy would have done much of a difference. At impact, do you think any other van would had stood up any better?

[J-150]

something to think about:

 

 

typically, 15+ passenger vehicles require a Bus Driver's license. So its quite possible that a regular driver was behind the wheel.

 

People that are trained and licensed to handle this tye of vehicle, generally don't crash them. Every time I hear of these crashes, they tend to be schools or churches driving themselves.

[suv_guy_19]

Icey road? How fast was he going? I don't think a Chevy would have done much of a difference. At impact, do you think any other van would had stood up any better?

 

He hit the shoulder and probably over reacted. Then he hit a semi. Looking at what happened to one side of the van, it wouldn't have mattered if he had been driving a Sherman tank.

[J-150]

He hit the shoulder and probably over reacted. Then he hit a semi. Looking at what happened to one side of the van, it wouldn't have mattered if he had been driving a Sherman tank.

 

 

if he overreacted, that proves my point. People that are experienced, properly trained and properly licensed on larger vehicles do not overreact. They also know how to control sucha vehicle.

 

I stand by my original opinion that the rig was too big for the driver.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

I still maintain that any vehicle with more than three rows in it should require some sort of special license (or at least an indication on a regular license that the holder has been trained in their correct operation).

[GreyPony]

I still maintain that any vehicle with more than three rows in it should require some sort of special license (or at least an indication on a regular license that the holder has been trained in their correct operation).

 

 

Amen! I have heard so many times "I can drive that, I have a mini van ". The seating position is like on a kitchen chair in those vans. The center of gravity is way higher. Then add the people. People should be trained.

[rmc523]

And my deepest condolences to the families involved.

 

First I too would like to express my condolences to the families.

 

That said, I know my school has several of the Club Wagons like that, we haven't been able to use them to actually transport kids in for years. I guess they were deemed unsafe.

 

I'm amazed at how the vehicle was ripped to shreds.

Edited January 16, 2008 by rmc523

[J-150]

I still maintain that any vehicle with more than three rows in it should require some sort of special license (or at least an indication on a regular license that the holder has been trained in their correct operation).

 

 

 

most jurisdictions require a Bus license on anything 12+ or 15+ (depending on State or Province) Maybe that should be lowered to anything over 8 passengers.

[rmc523]

most jurisdictions require a Bus license on anything 12+ or 15+ (depending on State or Province) Maybe that should be lowered to anything over 8 passengers.

 

I think the an article I read mentioned a bus license was required in that area for him to drive one of these vehicles.

[03Ltd.Windstar]

I've driven many vans from Ford & GM that varied from cargo to conversion to 15 passenger. The vans themselves aren't anymore dangerous then any other big vehicle. The problem is, most people driving these vehicles don't know how to drive vehicles this big. When you jerk the wheel in a big tall van, it doesn't react the same as it would in a car, which without experience and/or training, could be deadly. Plus, many of the deaths in these kinds of accidents happen from people not wearing seat belts being ejected while it rolls over. Also, most of these 15 passenger vans get way too overloaded (15 people averaging 200 pounds each plus all their gear is too much weight). No amount of electronic gimmickry can over compensate for stupidity and/or inexperience. If they need to haul this many people, and if they don't have an experienced driver, they should either charter a bus or rent two 8 passenger vehicles.

 

With the liability involved, I'm surprised Ford & GM would keep selling these things...

 

 

 

 

Good Post...and very true. My neighbor runs a transportation company that has three 25 or 26 pass. luxury busses, two 15 pass. E-350s one of which is an 08 which they just got, and then they have a couple Grand Caravans/T&Cs and a Crown Vic . I pick up her kids from school and on occasion have taken the 15 pass. van to pick them and their friends up and your right when you say that when you turn the van too fast it is just NOT good. Here you don't need the B class or whatever license though so anyone can drive them. To be honest, to me they drive like a Super Duty with a long bed (not a new one of course!) ....i like driving it but would never want to fill it up every week!

[J-150]

this is a tragic event.

 

let's just hopes this opens peoples eyes that driving a big truck with a load is not like driving a Focus.

[8A4RE]

I can still remember a very bad van accident here in Illinois that happened around seven years ago. http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2002/HAB0202.pdf They need to change the laws and make it so that any head count greater than say 8 in a given vehicle must require the use of a wider van such as a dual wheeled bus for better stability.

[Kool_ZX3]

Living about 20 minutes from bathurst, it was a pretty horrible event that broke just about every heart around, including mine..... The roads were horrible here that night and i mean horrible, almost the worst roads we had so far all year. Freezing rain, ice pellets and snow mized together isn't good. The roads in montcon weren't all that bad so they continued home that night and after they got close to bathurst the roads were quite bad but they were only 5 mins from actually being home, so they kept going but they never made it.....

 

The van hit the shoulder and went into a fishtail and he couldn't bring it back and was nailed by the transport which was probably doing near 55mph. It ripped the van to peices and ejected most of the boys into the snow. there was 12 passenger in the van, 8 were killed. One police officer could only do 30mph on a 60mph highway on the roads that night to get to the accident scene.... Shows how bad they were.

 

I know one of the kids that made it out alive and from what he says, those few moments were pure horror..... He mangaed to walk with a broken pelvis, leg and arm. Checking upon his teamates ejected from the vehicle trying to keep them alive until help arrived but sadly none did....

 

No 15 passeger van would of made a difference unless maybe it had advancetrac....

 

The funeral was today in bathurst at the arena and was on many news stations live... i watched it and probably one of the worst things i ever went through, when your have to bury 7 people younger then yourself in this community....

 

The coach has driven this vehicle before without trouble i believe, they have had the van awhile and has been a coach for years....

 

In the end, there really is only one thing at fault, the weather. people can throw blame here and there, but 8 people died.... and it's been an awful week so far for everyone but it shows how much everyone cares with the support that has been coming in, from messages from the pope, the prime minister, toronto raptors having a moment of silence etc... It's just been unbelivable to see how much a community can come together in times like these...

 

I know quite a bit about the story if anyone wants to know anything else....

 

Both the boys from my community here 20 mins from bathurst were lucky, the co captain was sick and stayed home that night and the other came out alive but like i said, has a broken pelvis, arm and leg. It would of made it even harder ( like it isn't hard enough) if any of the 2 boys in my small community were killed.... Bathurst is a city of only 13,000+ people....

 

RIP to the boys in red....

Edited January 17, 2008 by Kool_ZX3

[Kool_ZX3]

here is a picture from the funeral today

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2...eral_080116.jpg

 

It just tears you apart seeing 7 young men laying in caskets

 

A picture of the van

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2...rash_080112.jpg

Edited January 17, 2008 by Kool_ZX3