RichardJensen Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 More notes: "The average age of Camry drivers is 48, compared to Hyundai's 39." -- http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Colum...Id=109823?imw=Y -- Jan 2008 Further: "The latest survey of 4th quarter showroom traffic by CNW marketing shows almost every Ford car and truck line (Ford, Lincoln, Mercury) showed a lower age for those visiting the showroom" -- http://www.cnbc.com/id/22780937 -- "Ford's 'youth' movement", CNBC analysis - 22 Jan 2008 "The average age of Lincoln buyers is 61" -- http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&...X3kyXA3K2xTvwEA, date unk. "A Fusion customer's average age is 46 and trending downward. " -- http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&...yXovnaROVEy0hTg , date unk. Fusion buyer 2 years younger than Camry buyer and trending downward? See this is why those line by line numbers mean something.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford??-LOL! Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) I just wanted to point out that not once in all of 2007 did Ford have a month where incentive spending exceeded $4k. Its full-year incentive spending came in well below Chrysler and parity with GM. Do some research before spewing garbage on the forum. Here is a quote from this link: Toyota relied on incentives to spur sales, spending up to $6,400 on each Tundra, according to estimates from CNW Marketing Research Inc., which includes items such as rebates and discount financing. Bandon, Oregon-based CNW projects Ford spent $6,647 for each F-150, GM $6,019 on each Silverado and Chrysler $6,477 on each Ram. Edited February 1, 2008 by Ford??-LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Do some research before spewing garbage on the forum. Here is a quote from this link: Toyota relied on incentives to spur sales, spending up to $6,400 on each Tundra, according to estimates from CNW Marketing Research Inc., which includes items such as rebates and discount financing. Bandon, Oregon-based CNW projects Ford spent $6,647 for each F-150, GM $6,019 on each Silverado and Chrysler $6,477 on each Ram. yea those numbers were bullshit..dodge barn dealer lot here had 6k discounted on just about every new ram on the lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Further notes Established: Fusion - 46 Camry - 48 Lincoln brand - 61 More: "The average Navigator buyer is 49, he said, and the company is targeting 48 as the average age for the MKS buyer. " -- http://www.wheels.ca/article/32925 , 14 November 2007 Expedition: "Compare that to the average age of 48 for Ford Motor Co.’s Expedition," -- http://multicultclassics.blogspot.com/2007...essay-1937.html , early 2007 Who's got the young'ins? "Little surprise that two South Korean cars -- Hyundai Motor Co.'s $10,000 Accent and $13,000 Elantra -- have the youngest average buyers of any on the market, at age 24." -- a 2004 report from David Welch / B.Week -- http://www.mywire.com/pubs/BusinessWeek/20...5/389044/print/ More: http://www.indiacar.net/news/n28413.htm "At the same time, Toyota has seen a dramatic 11-percent increase in the average age of its shoppers, even factoring in its Scion youth brand. The average age of Toyota shoppers was 40.5 in 2005 and is 45 in 2006." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Further notes Established: Fusion - 46 Camry - 48 Lincoln brand - 61 More: "The average Navigator buyer is 49, he said, and the company is targeting 48 as the average age for the MKS buyer. " -- http://www.wheels.ca/article/32925 , 14 November 2007 Expedition: "Compare that to the average age of 48 for Ford Motor Co.’s Expedition," -- http://multicultclassics.blogspot.com/2007...essay-1937.html , early 2007 Who's got the young'ins? "Little surprise that two South Korean cars -- Hyundai Motor Co.'s $10,000 Accent and $13,000 Elantra -- have the youngest average buyers of any on the market, at age 24." -- a 2004 report from David Welch / B.Week -- http://www.mywire.com/pubs/BusinessWeek/20...5/389044/print/ More: http://www.indiacar.net/news/n28413.htm "At the same time, Toyota has seen a dramatic 11-percent increase in the average age of its shoppers, even factoring in its Scion youth brand. The average age of Toyota shoppers was 40.5 in 2005 and is 45 in 2006." wow..yoyota looking like the new oldsmobile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford??-LOL! Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 yea those numbers were bullshit..dodge barn dealer lot here had 6k discounted on just about every new ram on the lot What is it with all you Ford cheerleaders not understanding what an average is??? Is it the lack of even a GED?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Do some research before spewing garbage on the forum. Here is a quote from this link: Toyota relied on incentives to spur sales, spending up to $6,400 on each Tundra, according to estimates from CNW Marketing Research Inc., which includes items such as rebates and discount financing. Bandon, Oregon-based CNW projects Ford spent $6,647 for each F-150, GM $6,019 on each Silverado and Chrysler $6,477 on each Ram. So to line up in descending order: Ford - 6,647 (avg) Dodge - 6,477 (avg) Toyota - 6,400 ("up to") Chevy - 6,019 (avg) Question: Does this count in fleet sales, which Ford has a lot of and often discounts in bulk? Edited February 1, 2008 by Roadrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 What is it with all you Ford cheerleaders not understanding what an average is??? Is it the lack of even a GED?? 5th grade edukation here..but i do understand...yoyota sucks...now where is my falls city beer and the neighbors goat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford??-LOL! Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 5th grade edukation here..but i do understand...yoyota sucks...now where is my falls city beer and the neighbors goat LOL!! Good sense of humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Average age an entire brand isn't that useful in my opinion. Sure, it can tell you that a car company's clientele is old or young on average - but it is difficult to pinpoint what that means without context. As Richard alluded to, different cars are aimed at different buyers. Obviously a Ford Taurus isn't aimed at the same person as a Ford Focus. As a Lincoln MKZ isn't aimed at the same person as a Ford F-150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 What is it with all you Ford cheerleaders not understanding what an average is??? Is it the lack of even a GED?? tsk tsk. Is that what you would've posted if Ford's average age had jumped 11%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Do some research before spewing garbage on the forum. Here is a quote from this link You will see different numbers from different outfits. Edmunds and Auto Pacific also track incentive spending. All of them use SWAG methods when it comes to subsidized financing and dealer incentives (for instance, discounts on floorplan charges for faster turn, volume based incentives, etc.) They base their estimates on surveys completed by voluntary dealer participants (AFAIK), which must then be filtered for the assorted assumed errors. Expect Ford's numbers to become even more opaque as Farley begins devolving incentive spending onto regional dealer groups. At any rate, assuming comparability between figures--whether or not such figures are accurate--Toyota dumped almost as much (within 5% of Ford) on the brand new Tundra as was lavished on the oldest vehicle in the segment. == In fact, I would prefer to see these data providers provide error estimates in their numbers, as they are unquestionably inaccurate. Edited February 1, 2008 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 not to mention real discounts on the Tundra are 10k+, they were 4K within 2 months of hitting the lots around here, by their 6 month it was 6-10k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 What's amusing, because this is being brought up time and time again, is the fact that Toyota had to almost match the incentives of an out going design.....only to miss their numbers anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Don't run your business on averages boys, or you'll just be an average business. Something that American automakers as a whole refuse to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Mulally has openly admitted he's downsizing the company to profitability, even if that means losing market share. Try again. :reading: You cannot save your way to prosperity. Ford's total US sales have fallen by over a million in five years and in the same period its annual passenger car sales have fallen by almost 27% and its market share driven over a cliff from 7.88% to last year's 5.19%. What's more, in spite of its claims to the contrary, Ford is rowing in the opposite direction to low cost integration. IMO, Ford is right at the margin of survival. Edited February 1, 2008 by mlhm5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 People that buy the Fusion doesn't help the U.S. workforce compared to the Ford trucks and large car buyers. :reading: See the trend? :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Of course, the full truth would require a line by line breakdown of average age per vehicle. But since we don't have that, we're just going to stick with our own little take on the 'truth' right? The over emphasis of selected and only partially illuminating data points. "The oldest average shoppers industry-wide were looking at Ford or its Mercury and Lincoln brands, at 54.3 years. GM shoppers averaged 48 years old, while Chrysler shoppers came in at 44." Cars.com "Automotive News reports that while the average age of a Lincoln owner is 60 (and the Town Car's drivers are 70 ), the Zephyr's average buyer during the first three weeks of March was 56." Autoblog Edited February 1, 2008 by mlhm5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) That's about as stupid a statement as i have ever read on a forum! Well then, you need to check out these forum gems! You haven't read STUPID until you've read these! Edited February 1, 2008 by TomServo92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Of course, the full truth would require a line by line breakdown of average age per vehicle. But since we don't have that, we're just going to stick with our own little take on the 'truth' right? The over emphasis of selected and only partially illuminating data points. "Ford's incentives, as estimated by Autodata Corp., a private firm in Woodcliff Lake, N.J., remain among the highest in the industry. Ford offered an average of $4,001 in discounts on its cars and trucks last year." Det Press Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 You cannot save your way to prosperity. Ford's total US sales have fallen by over a million in five years and in the same period its annual passenger car sales have fallen by almost 27% and its market share driven over a cliff from 7.88% to last year's 5.19%. What's more, in spite of its claims to the contrary, Ford is rowing in the opposite direction to low cost integration. IMO, Ford is right at the margin of survival. Companies downsize all the time in order to survive. They shed unnecessary capacity in order to be the right size for their current place in the market. RJ posted several links for companies that downsized years ago and are surviving quite well right now. Bounce that off your two neurons and see if you can comprehend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 "Ford's incentives, as estimated by Autodata Corp., a private firm in Woodcliff Lake, N.J., remain among the highest in the industry. Ford offered an average of $4,001 in discounts on its cars and trucks last year." Det Press Reading comprehension is your friend. Anyways, how are they figuring out the average on incentives on vehicles? If anything I've never seen anything higher then say $3500 on a F-series or SUV on the Ford Website. Over the years all this talk of avg incentives on a car has never meshed with "real world" advertising I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Companies downsize all the time in order to survive. They shed unnecessary capacity in order to be the right size for their current place in the market. RJ posted several links for companies that downsized years ago and are surviving quite well right now. Bounce that off your two neurons and see if you can comprehend it. Ford has enough cash, at its current burn rate to last until 2009. The sale of Jag and LR will extend that date by a year or two, however with a recession on its way for 2008-09, Ford will not emerge any stronger than it is today because of its structured cost and economies of scale position v. GM and Toyota. GM and Toyota will do fine, Ford has yet to stop the sales losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomaro Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) "The oldest average shoppers industry-wide were looking at Ford or its Mercury and Lincoln brands, at 54.3 years. GM shoppers averaged 48 years old, while Chrysler shoppers came in at 44." Cars.com "Automotive News reports that while the average age of a Lincoln owner is 60 (and the Town Car's drivers are 70 ), the Zephyr's average buyer during the first three weeks of March was 56." Autoblog You really have no clue. You and that nutswinger FORD LOL. I would rather have my buying demographic be at the mid to higher end of the age spectrum. People between the ages of 40 and 60 typically have more disposable income than those that are at the bottom. I would rather be selling to those in their 50s than those in their early 20s. Also, people in their 50s typically have children near driving age. If you can make mom and dad happy, with say an Edge, you have a good chance at having a positive impression on junior, with a Mustang of Focus. In todays credit crunch the "middle age" demographic is probably the most stable and lower risk category. Edited February 1, 2008 by atomaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Ford has enough cash, at its current burn rate to last until 2009. The sale of Jag and LR will extend that date by a year or two, however with a recession on its way for 2008-09, Ford will not emerge any stronger than it is today because of its structured cost and economies of scale position v. GM and Toyota. GM and Toyota will do fine, Ford has yet to stop the sales losses. Ford has enough money to last BEYOND 2009. Compared to what then have now, the J/LR sale is a drop in the bucket. Ford has reduced and is reducing costs, they have increased margins, and they are doing better. Do we really have to keep listening to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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