Ford to focus on winning trust

[Deanh]

Deanh, I got charged an administration fee when I purchased my car on the A-plan ($250).

 

Are you saying this should not have happened?

definitely not...call ford....I do not think it differs from state to state....Our system defeats to a 55 dollar doc fee...I had an X plan deal KICKED back from ford and they would not fund unless it was removed...and I mean removed...they would not even accept us absorbing it! THAT is how stringent the rules are.

[MarkFive]

definitely not...call ford....I do not think it differs from state to state....Our system defeats to a 55 dollar doc fee...I had an X plan deal KICKED back from ford and they would not fund unless it was removed...and I mean removed...they would not even accept us absorbing it! THAT is how stringent the rules are.

 

I wonder if its the same thing in Canada (I bought the car two years ago).

 

Crap, I'll call Ford Canada but the last time I did, I didn't find them very helpful.

 

I once had my car cleaned/waxed and the guy who did it told me that the paint on the left-hand side of the vehicle didn't quite have the same pattern as the rest of the car (its a black car and you have to really look close to see it). He asked me if it had been in an accident and based on that, I called Ford Canada AND the dealership to inquire. I ran the VIN through Car Proof and there was nothing on file showing anything had happened to the car. Nothing else on the car makes me think this happened, but to this day I wonder.

Edited February 21, 2008 by MarkFive

[Deanh]

I wonder if its the same thing in Canada (I bought the car two years ago).

 

Crap, I'll call Ford Canada but the last time I did, I didn't find them very helpful.

 

I once had my car cleaned/waxed and the guy who did it told me that the paint on the left-hand side of the vehicle didn't quite have the same patten as the rest of the car (its a black car and you have to really look close to see it). He asked me if it had been in an accident and based on that, I called Ford Canada AND the dealership to inquire. I ran the VIN through Car Proof and there was nothing on file showing anything had happened to the car. Nothing else on the car makes me think this happened, but to this day I wonder.

repairs can be made to vehicles at their drop points...somtimes minor damage does happen in transit..from a Dealer perspective ( of course please PM Furious as he may correct me ) if a repair takes place and exceeds $600 we have to inform YOU. Mark, i just printed up the Axzd-plan pricing agreemant form you are REQUIRED to sign when you take delivery...this is verbatum ( but once again even typing this word for word furious will probably correct me ).....By signing this form, the customer acknowledges receipt of the vehicle designated above and indicates the customer has read or has had the oppurtunity to read the Plan rules and agrees that he/ she will NOT violate any Plan provision or solicit any money, price DISCOUNT, or any item of value in excess of $50 ( dealership cost 50, from anyone in connection with the purchase or lease of a vehicle under the plan............sorry if this is long winded...but it also states.....Penalyties for violation of Plan provisions may include one or more of the following: TERMINATION of plan priviliges, disiplinary action up to and INCLUDING TERMINATION ( Ford Employee )and/ or requirement that the customer or employee re-imberse the Company for the amount of any dealer commision paid by the company.....and heres something relevent to your situ....( customers may NOT be charged extra for prep and conditioning or document preperation fees ) yadda...yadda....yadda....check with furious though...he knows all this...

Edited February 22, 2008 by Deanh

[MarkFive]

repairs can be made to vehicles at their drop points...somtimes minor damage does happen in transit..from a Dealer perspective ( of course please PM Furious as he may correct me ) if a repair takes place and exceeds $600 we have to inform YOU. Mark, i just printed up the Axzd-plan pricing agreemant form you are REQUIRED to sign when you take delivery...this is verbatum ( but once again even typing this word for word furious will probably correct me ).....By signing this form, the customer acknowledges receipt of the vehicle designated above and indicates the customer has read or has had the oppurtunity to read the Plan rules and agrees that he/ she will NOT violate any Plan provision or solicit any money, price DISCOUNT, or any item of value in excess of 450 ( dealership cost 0, from anyone in connection with the purchase or lease of a vehicle under the plan............sorry if this is long winded...but it also states.....Penalyties for violation of Plan provisions may include one or more of the following: TERMINATION of plan priviliges, disiplinary action up to and INCLUDING TERMINATION ( Ford Employee )and/ or requirement that the customer or employee re-imberse the Company for the amount of any dealer commision paid by the company.....and heres something relevent to your situ....( customers may NOT be charged extra for prep and conditioning or document preperation fees ) yadda...yadda....yadda....check with furious though...he knows all this...

Thanks for the info. Didn't read the entire plan rules.

I plan to get a new car next year. This time I know.

[Deanh]

Thanks for the info. Didn't read the entire plan rules.

I plan to get a new car next year. This time I know.

let me know, i can fax the form no probs so at least you don't go in unawares again...but the $250 WAS a total rip...sorry mate.

[MarkFive]

...but the $250 WAS a total rip...sorry mate.

 

I realize that now. I won't be going back to the same dealer.

[Sporko]

Wrong my car was retailing for $18,500, KBB trade value was $14,000 and a dealer offered my only $12,000. At that time my pay off was $13,000! I would have settled for my pay off, but the dealer insisted that I take $1,000 negative equity. So I walked out and refinanced my car. If they would have given me payoff I would have bought a new vehicle that they would have made money on while enjoying a $5,000 profit margin on my trade. This all happend about 8 months ago, then about three weeks ago I went to a Chrysler dealer, and hade the salesman write up a deal on a JEEP Unlimited. He offered me $2,000 off sticker and KBB trade value for my car. The question is not whether or not I need an edjucation, but rather why do Ford dealers think that they are special and can just ignore what someones vehicle is worth while their competition pays KBB?

 

Wait a minute. What kind of financial genius is willing to take $13,000 for a car that they could retail for $18,500? Obviously the car was worth $18,500. Why wouldn't you have just bought the new car at A-Plan, and pocketed an extra $5,500 by selling it yourself? Should've been a no brainer if that's what KBB says you could've done.

[Furious1Auto]

not a theory my friend...it is fact...ask a dealer principle....DON"T KEEP TELLING ME MY FRIGGIN JOB!...........re quote DO NOT PROCLAIM to be an expert in a field you know NOTHING about. you were exceedingly misleading through-out

Your belittling, condecending attitude is only an attempt to make me feel inferior so that you have the upperhand on this arguement. Simply if you don't discredit me than you run the risk of others seeing the light. Here is a simple rule of business that I kow you understand, "nothing is worth more than someone is whiling to pay for it". You use this principle on you customers when determining what you will give them on trade. Then the other one "you get what you pay for", you also use this on your customers when trying to upsell them on a higher priced product. I live by these two principles also, I don't give a sh-t what you are buying, selling, how long you have been doing it, or what ever. I will only offer what I think something is worth, and if I don't get my price I walk on the deal. I will only accept what I think my possesions are worth, and if I don't get my price I keep it. So you see Mr. expert I will never relent on this arguement because you did not make it that way and you cannot change it. The difference between you and I is that my income does not depend on making a sale, but yours does. I could refuse any terms all day and it doesn't hurt one bit if a deal doesn't go through, you on the other hand cannot afford your bills if you cannot make a deal. I know allot more than you, your scope is limited to just your job, and you lack the benefit of seeing the whole picture. You also insult me because you feel inferior, and timid like a child. You see the effect without the cause, You have also learned the techniques of buying and selling without learning the priciples behind it. This whole time I have been overlooking addressing your insults individually in hopes you would understand what I'm trying to convey, but obviously you lack the mental capacity to understand. I guess I should not waste my time, and allow you to continue to live in your dream world. If you think for one second that I believe that Ford decides what you as an independant dealer consider as adequate profit margins for a deal than you are nutz. You decide what your margins will be, otherwise There would be no additional cost above MSRP period. I did not mislead you, but you are lieing to me. You said that it states in your franchise agreement that you are not allowed to over allow on a trade in an A-Plan agreement, LOL. The words over allow are subjective and reletive to your position. Do you mean to tell me that Ford audits your books to see if you overpaid for your customers trades? If they did all they would have to go off are numbers on a piece of paper, because the car would either go to a customer, or the Auction if it was not good enough to sell on your lot. Now how could Ford dispute the transaction not having any idea what condition the trade was in? Saying I did buy into your B.S. what action would Ford take against you, take away your factory to dealer incentives? Not fill your orders, break franchise agreement, your rediculous. how ignorant do you think I am? From every point that we have argued, and in light that your competition will pay KBB I have gathered never to trade a vehicle with you or any other Ford dealer. It is better do a simple A-Plan purchase with no trade so I don't get hosed!

Wait a minute. What kind of financial genius is willing to take $13,000 for a car that they could retail for $18,500? Obviously the car was worth $18,500. Why wouldn't you have just bought the new car at A-Plan, and pocketed an extra $5,500 by selling it yourself? Should've been a no brainer if that's what KBB says you could've done.

I agree, but it was not KBB that told me what they were retailing for. I looked at comparable used cars and looked at what they were going for on the lots to determine the retail value. I was whiling to accept payoff just because I wanted to reduce my liability going into contract negotiatons. Walking on to the lot I knew no dealer would ever give me near what they would sell it for, so I figured I would have to settle for KBB just to end the deal quickly. What I didn't know was that the dealer would refuse to even consider giving me fair market value! Now I have a better understanding of how greedy they are. It's seems nothing is ever good enough for them and the will always attempt to hang you with negative equity, no matter how much you car is worth!

Edited February 23, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Deanh]

Wait a minute. What kind of financial genius is willing to take $13,000 for a car that they could retail for $18,500? Obviously the car was worth $18,500. Why wouldn't you have just bought the new car at A-Plan, and pocketed an extra $5,500 by selling it yourself? Should've been a no brainer if that's what KBB says you could've done.

18500 is retail...what sort of financial genious thinks they can take their car to a dealer and get RETAIL for it?...hold it, I know someone....hes on this thread, and has started this argument on a FICTICIOUS situation....hes an expert in EVERY field when it comes to a vehicular transaction, can not admit he is wrong and really doesn't know ,and is taking offense to someone who DOES know the business, that practices it on a daily basis for 20 years, calling him out,,,,,,I have also mentioned NUMEROUS times that in order for him to get RETAIL for his car he has to sell it himself....no getting thru Sporko....in this instance Furious is a lost cause with no grasp of reality in the day to day business of Automobile sales.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Deanh

[Deanh]

quote.........".You said that it states in your franchise agreement that you are not allowed to over allow on a trade in an A-Plan agreement, LOL. "......actually it doesn't, but to overallow the extra money has to be added onto the selling price of the new vehicle, thus violating the A plan agreement....make sense? Should do pretty simple to understand....AND ALSO THE REASON THE FORD DEALERS WOULDN"T GIVE YOU THE EXTRA $2000 FOR YOUR TRADE. And once AGAIN, KBB is just a guide...not actually indicative of actual market value.....for instance right now Expeditions are $3500- 4000 BACK of wholesale book, some Audis are $6500......some of the appraisals would rock your world....bottom line Furious a dealer will amke a deal if they can and it makes sense, thats it in a nutshell....they would NOT let you walk at the expense of a VIABLE deal...you are not the only person that has said no due to their trade in figure and you will not be the last, I have YET to have one person opposite me stand up and go, "Hell Dean, thats too much for my trade, I'm sorry youll have to cut that back!!!! "and your whole Evil Empire theory is bogus....perhaps...just perhaps your own thinking is in error.......

Edited February 22, 2008 by Deanh

[Extreme4x4]

Furious, I am not a car dealer.............. am not affiliated with a car dealer................. have never sold cars................ no noone who has ever sold cars.................. and am not affiliated to FMC or any other manufacturer.

 

I have bought and sold both used and new vehicles, including trading them in.

 

First off, on markups on limited edition/production vehicles. What does MSRP equate??? Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price. No more, and no less. It is the suggested price. What is the product worth??? Well, ANYTHING is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. The dealership, or an individual, would be an idiot if they sold their __________, that someone would willingly pay $75K for, for $45K........... now wouldn't they??? As much as you may hate it, an auto dealership is a "For Profit" business.

 

Now,

If I sell my __________ for $100K, then it is worth $100K for that particular moment. If I sell the same ________ for $1.00, then that is what it is worth. I could ask $100K for it, but if it only sells for $1.00, this does not make the retail value of my _________ $100K.............. it is $1.00. When you see vehicles on a lot for $20K, do you really think they sell for that??? Do you know EXACTLY what they sold for??? The answer is no to both. This is the same in the private sector. What someone asks for something, and what it actually sells for, can be two very different things.

 

Finally, what Jeep is able to do, to get your business, means nothing to a Ford dealership. The vehicle you purchased could have direct to dealer incentives, it could have been sitting for a while (meaning it is eating), or, they could have a buddy who really wants your trade, and they know they won't lose on it. The point is, you don't know the whole story. To speculate is useless.

 

You work for Ford, you should know more about all this than you let on.

[Furious1Auto]

Furious, I am not a car dealer.............. am not affiliated with a car dealer................. have never sold cars................ no noone who has ever sold cars.................. and am not affiliated to FMC or any other manufacturer.

 

I have bought and sold both used and new vehicles, including trading them in.

 

First off, on markups on limited edition/production vehicles. What does MSRP equate??? Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price. No more, and no less. It is the suggested price. What is the product worth??? Well, ANYTHING is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. The dealership, or an individual, would be an idiot if they sold their __________, that someone would willingly pay $75K for, for $45K........... now wouldn't they??? As much as you may hate it, an auto dealership is a "For Profit" business.

 

Now,

If I sell my __________ for $100K, then it is worth $100K for that particular moment. If I sell the same ________ for $1.00, then that is what it is worth. I could ask $100K for it, but if it only sells for $1.00, this does not make the retail value of my _________ $100K.............. it is $1.00. When you see vehicles on a lot for $20K, do you really think they sell for that??? Do you know EXACTLY what they sold for??? The answer is no to both. This is the same in the private sector. What someone asks for something, and what it actually sells for, can be two very different things.

Agreed!

Edited February 22, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Noah Harbinger]

18500 is retail...what sort of financial genious thinks they can take their car to a dealer and get RETAIL for it?...hold it, I know someone....hes on this thread, and has started this argument on a FICTICIOUS situation....

 

So you are of the opinion that 42% is a fair markup on a transaction like this?

[suv_guy_19]

So you are of the opinion that 42% is a fair markup on a transaction like this?

 

 

Well, 40% is actually a common standard markup for many retail businesses.

[Furious1Auto]

Well, 40% is actually a common standard markup for many retail businesses.

25 to 30% if you are lucky enough to be buying from a manufacturer who allows decent margins on a competatively sold product. Shit there was only a $6.00 profit on every Playstation2 that was sold in the U.S. I know because I got the wholesale pricing from Mecca games in New York City when I was looking to sell them. They are the biggest wholesaler of the system in the U.S. and I would have had to buy 10,000 units a week to get that price. Then they mandated that you buy x number of software bundles per system. No mom and pop retailer could ever compete with a Wal-Mart volume retailer! It is simply not a good business descision to sell them, unless you are peddling used games to. That's were the money is made. On the other hand my wife's Mary Kay cosmetics have a 50% margin or at least that is what they tell the people that buy in. What you come to find after trying to sell it is that with what their wholesale pricing is, the consaltant's have to cut their margins in order to do any sort of volume and to bring the retail cost in line with their competition! Mary Kay makes their money off of selling to their consultants by selling women a dream of becoming independant. The company is cardboard and the top sellers are the ones setting up new distributers, not the selling product to customers! I'm not bashing their products it's just that the manufacturer's wholesale looks like retail to me! Same problem with selling sh-t on E-Bay (not including cars) Most of the wholesalers that can give you guarenteed volume don't allow enough profit margin to the retailer! Then what about gasoline, I read an article about a shooting in Detroit where one gas station owner assulted another over him lowering his price by 1 cent and in return got shot. The whole sale cost of refinned fuel is so high that the stations only make money on the merchandise in the stores. It's so bad there assualting and shooting one another WTF! This is why I hate corporate America, it's got Dean having to screw me on my trade in order to keep his head above water! The margins in car sales is on used cars because the manufacturer's don't allow enough margin on new cars. Then on the other side of the coin they claim my 8% of their gross for labor costs is too much and I need to take a cut in compensation. Now there is a dose of reality, this is exactly the way it is!

Edited February 23, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[one2gamble]

Well, 40% is actually a common standard markup for many retail businesses.

 

 

more like 100% but it depends on the industry.

[suv_guy_19]

more like 100% but it depends on the industry.

 

Well, your right, actually, but many retail stores start at about 40%. Some items are as low as 25% (or even zero, but we don't do that), some are very high, but a great many in retail are around 40 - 50%

Edited February 27, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[Furious1Auto]

Well, your right, actually, but many retail stores start at about 40%. Some items are as low as 25% (or even zero, but we don't do that), some are very high, but a great many in retail are around 40 - 50%

I guarantee you that there is not a 40% mark up for new cars to retailers, so why is it justified in used? Also margins depend on the commodity period!

[suv_guy_19]

I guarantee you that there is not a 40% mark up for new cars to retailers, so why is it justified in used? Also margins depend on the commodity period!

 

 

If a care dealer can't have a high margin on a new car or a used car, and you want to get every discount and a high trade value, where do you expect them to make money? Just quit arguing. You don't own a business and you don't really seem know what your talking about.

[Furious1Auto]

If a care dealer can't have a high margin on a new car or a used car, and you want to get every discount and a high trade value, where do you expect them to make money? Just quit arguing. You don't own a business and you don't really seem know what your talking about.

How do you know I don't own a business? What just because I work at Ford means I don't and can't. Your wrong on all three accounts, and I don't extort my customers! I provide them with a service they need for a fair price, well under what my competition charges and still make a responsible profit. My wife also owns her own business as I mentioned earlier. I've also explored some franchise oppertunities. When you graduate school and run your own business, you will then be better positioned to make judgements about what others know and should argue over!

Edited February 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[suv_guy_19]

How do you know I don't own a business? What just because I work at Ford means I don't and can't. Your wrong on all three accounts, and I don't extort my customers! I provide them with a service they need for a fair price, well under what my competition charges and still make a responsible profit. My wife also owns her own business as I mentioned earlier. I've also explored some franchise oppertunities. When you graduate school and run your own business, you will then be better positioned to make judgements about what others know and should argue over!

 

My god, I should you that my parents owned a business...a very successful one....even with my dad feeling sorry for people and giving them credit extensions. At any one time people owe us about $100000 but we still make a great deal of money. You seem to be arguing just to argue.

[Deanh]

I guarantee you that there is not a 40% mark up for new cars to retailers, so why is it justified in used? Also margins depend on the commodity period!

furious...i thought we have already been over this....remember YOU wanted retail...WE take them in wholesale, and we also do NOT have ONE vehicle, new OR used with 40% markup....usual is between 2500-3500..........so on a 10000 car that would mean to sell it for 13500...doesn't happen, customers get printouts of KBB as well and are VERY educated....a transaction takes place when BOTH parties come to agreement...usually at about $1500 profit to the dealer...or less if vehicle is 30-60 days plus in inventorey...book changes on a car average of $300 a month...

[Furious1Auto]

furious...i thought we have already been over this....remember YOU wanted retail...WE take them in wholesale, and we also do NOT have ONE vehicle, new OR used with 40% markup....usual is between 2500-3500..........so on a 10000 car that would mean to sell it for 13500...doesn't happen, customers get printouts of KBB as well and are VERY educated....a transaction takes place when BOTH parties come to agreement...usually at about $1500 profit to the dealer...or less if vehicle is 30-60 days plus in inventorey...book changes on a car average of $300 a month...

I understand your position, SUV GUY reenergized the arguement with his claims that all or most retailers enjoy 40% returns, and that is simply not the case with all commodities!

Edited February 29, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[suv_guy_19]

I understand your position, SUV GUY reenergized the arguement with his claims that all or most retailers enjoy 40% returns, and that is simply not the case with all comodities!

 

 

I never said that you got a 40% return. Many items have to be that high to offset the much smaller amounts made on some set things like alcohol, gasoline...or in this case, new cars. He says theirs aren't that hi, many places are that high. Sorry to tell you that many retail items are at 40 or above. Its very much the truth.

[Furious1Auto]

I never said that you got a 40% return. Many items have to be that high to offset the much smaller amounts made on some set things like alcohol, gasoline...or in this case, new cars. He says theirs aren't that hi, many places are that high. Sorry to tell you that many retail items are at 40 or above. Its very much the truth.

And that is the key word, sorry I just felt like argueing simply just to argue!