Ford to focus on winning trust

[Deanh]

Was at a dealer yesterday to pick my mom up after she dropped her truck off to fix a probable injector issue (6.Oh Crap). She annoyingly went out to look at an 08' where I meet here and she salesman was gloating over the 6.4 and how much better it was than the 6.0, SOOOO I had to inform him that the 6.4 is merely a modified 6.0 that has had issues too. IE flame thrower, reversed polarity injectors from navistar, blah blah blah. He was not to happy with me, and I told him when Ford pulls their head out of their you know what and starts making their own diesel my mom would be in to buy one. So we will see you in 2010+...

only had one issue with a customer with 6.4 so far ( tank goodness ) was a failure of a high pressure pump ( oil i think )...gut starnded in B F Egypt somewhere, cab had to be removed...1 1/2 weeks out of service...felt for the guy, fantastic customer...did get riled because the dealer wouldn't sponsor a rental ( but WE did get it handled for him ).........

[kyle]

only had one issue with a customer with 6.4 so far ( tank goodness ) was a failure of a high pressure pump ( oil i think )...gut starnded in B F Egypt somewhere, cab had to be removed...1 1/2 weeks out of service...felt for the guy, fantastic customer...did get riled because the dealer wouldn't sponsor a rental ( but WE did get it handled for him ).........

 

 

I talk to a lot of Ford Dealer's who are starting to see some issues with the 6.4-mainly turbo's and radiators. The turbo's require the cab to be removed. Hope it is just a cowidince (?) but don't think so.

 

I also think that most of the dealer's are honest and hard working. They are under enormous pressure to make money though and that is where things get a little "gray."

 

And no sales person wants to deal with a customer who won't buy a vehicle until 2010. Prospecting is one thing-waiting 2 years on something they have no control over is another. And besides, they were probably being nice to your mother while you were late picking her up from the bar.

[Hard-Drivin' Man]

bottom line, hard to keep good people if they cannot make a living...bad thing is it reflects in certain areas the consumer places importance....

 

Just wait for the trickle-down theory to take hold. I'm speaking of the wage-cut that the average UAW member is about to take. Ford will pay aproximately 1/3 the total cost for wages and benefits to the new-hires coming in soon. What a lot of people don't realize is that standard-of-living cut will eventually trickle-down to most everyone. The dealership mechanics won't even be able to buy the smallest of the new cars that they work on. Nice!

Can you say;-) Globalization?!

 

Better buy Ford stock now! If you can't win with one hand, beat 'em with the other!

[01FOCI]

"And besides, they were probably being nice to your mother while you were late picking her up from the bar

 

Well if you consider predatory sales tactics as friendly you got a screw loose. :wacko:

 

Anyways my original comment was aimed at the fact that I know more than the SALESMAN.... About HIS product. The "its a new engine"comment to my mother set me off. When I buy something salesmen need to be like children. Seen but not heard unless spoken to. :D

[Edstock]

The turbo's require the cab to be removed.

 

The turbo's require the cab to be removed. :banghead:

 

Marvellous, absolutely marvellous.

 

You have to dis-assemble the truck (like, take another 2 hours and unbolt the box too, big deal) to re & re the turbos?

 

And you have to have an engineering degree to design this?

[SVT_MAN]

I agree.....I wish the salespeople would be more educated about the products they're selling. I find it annoying (but funny) when I have to tell the salesperson features of the car.

 

When my girlfriend was considering buying a Fusion (ended up buying a 1998 Mitsubishi 3000GT, don't even go there), it was rather entertaining when her salesperson didn't know things. I know exactly what you are talking about. I am a casual observer of the Fusion and I knew more than he did. He didn't even know simple options packages.

[Ron W.]

The turbo's require the cab to be removed. :banghead:

 

Marvellous, absolutely marvellous.

 

You have to dis-assemble the truck (like, take another 2 hours and unbolt the box too, big deal) to re & re the turbos?

 

And you have to have an engineering degree to design this?

 

Even before Ford decided cab off repairs were acceptable some techs would use that method in order to make access to the engine compartment easier. Saves their backs as well as gives them enough room to properly torque head bolts etc.

Last one I saw where I used to work was a customer with an 04 or 05 F150 5.4L that came in for a plug change, sure enough even following Fords TSB 1 plug broke per side and the special service tool supplied didn't cut it. Customer comes back to pick up his truck and instead sees the cab in the air (on the hoist) and both heads off. He was not a happy camper.

[theoldwizard]

As many have mentioned, it takes a long time to build trust. Years and years, especially given Ford's current situation (some people won't go in the door because they fear the company will not exist in 3-5 years; I don't blame them)

 

As others have mentioned, trust start at the dealers with the sales and service personnel. Based on buying 2 new Ford products at 2 different stores last year, I don't "trust" any car sale person as far as I can spit.

First sales person, who was highly recommended and had many awards proudly displayed on his desk, had the vehicle titled to Ford as a lease vehicle, even though I paid cash (yes, some of us still do that).

 

Second sales person, a) did not give me a copy of the sales agreement (against the law in MI) \B) charged extra for "instant" plate even though I had to leave the lot without one, and c) titled the vehicle to Ford as a lease, even though I paid cash.

 

#1 sales person caught his own mistake, contacted me, re-filed the necessary paperwork and I received the correct title about 2 weeks after the incorrect one.

 

#2 sales person may no longer be employed based on the look of the sales managers face, who handled my problems. Salesperson, of course, blamed "the girls in back" and "computer glitches".

 

Don't these folks get paid to make certain the transaction are correct ?

[Blueblood]

As many have mentioned, it takes a long time to build trust. Years and years, especially given Ford's current situation (some people won't go in the door because they fear the company will not exist in 3-5 years; I don't blame them)

 

As others have mentioned, trust start at the dealers with the sales and service personnel. Based on buying 2 new Ford products at 2 different stores last year, I don't "trust" any car sale person as far as I can spit.

First sales person, who was highly recommended and had many awards proudly displayed on his desk, had the vehicle titled to Ford as a lease vehicle, even though I paid cash (yes, some of us still do that).

 

Second sales person, a) did not give me a copy of the sales agreement (against the law in MI) \B) charged extra for "instant" plate even though I had to leave the lot without one, and c) titled the vehicle to Ford as a lease, even though I paid cash.

 

#1 sales person caught his own mistake, contacted me, re-filed the necessary paperwork and I received the correct title about 2 weeks after the incorrect one.

 

#2 sales person may no longer be employed based on the look of the sales managers face, who handled my problems. Salesperson, of course, blamed "the girls in back" and "computer glitches".

 

Don't these folks get paid to make certain the transaction are correct ?

 

That's a huge problem for Ford, just about every dealer around here is horrible, the salesmen don't even know basic things about the cars they are selling. Somehow Ford needs to weed out the bad dealers, on the bright side, a Ford dealer around here that was trying to sell Mustang GT's for 50k just went under..

[NickF1011]

That's a huge problem for Ford, just about every dealer around here is horrible, the salesmen don't even know basic things about the cars they are selling. Somehow Ford needs to weed out the bad dealers, on the bright side, a Ford dealer around here that was trying to sell Mustang GT's for 50k just went under..

 

It's not just a Ford problem. It's a dealer problem in general. I remember way back when I was getting ready to buy my first car on my own (which ended up being the Cobra). I was 19 years old, prepared to more or less pay cash for a vehicle.

 

My first stop was the Chevy dealer to test drive a Z28. They wouldn't let me. Period. No test drive. I was out of there.

 

My second stop was the Mitsubishi dealer to check out the 3000GT and Eclipse. They wouldn't even give me a brochure, let alone a test drive. See ya!

 

My third stop was the Pontiac dealer to test drive a Trans Am. At least they let me drive one. I was impressed, but I wanted to see some more cars first.

 

My fourth stop was a Ford dealer to test drive a Mustang GT. They wouldn't let me. See ya! (Ironically, this is one of the dealers I ended up working at later -- go figure. I should have known better. After working there, I realized they were even worse than my initial experience trying to test drive a Mustang.)

 

I really started to like the Mustang though, so I went to another Ford dealer. They INSISTED I test drive a Mustang GT and the sales guy let me get into it quite a bit and toss it around. Needless to say, I wasn't all that impressed by the gutless 2-valve 4.6, plus it was an automatic (I didn't know how to drive stick at the time) but I liked the rest of the car. Back in the showroom, the sales guy showed me all of the other Mustangs they had in stock. This being a Roush/Saleen/SVT dealer at the time, they had all sorts of awesome cars in stock and this sales guy seemed to know every single one of them inside and out. I was so impressed by the way I was treated, I ended up buying the black Cobra they had in the showroom without even driving it (damn stick!!!) Unfortunately, I had to get my dad to drive it home. :lol:

[Furious1Auto]

WE are the anti-christ.....addendums and all....LOL!

You said it not me. I do have to ask you why do you guys feel it necessary to take back any manufacturer offerd employee incentives when taking in a trade. For instance my Dad bought a $62,000 Lincoln Navigator and saved $16,000 at the time of sale. He drove it off of the lot with a clear title and traded it within 6 months because it required premium fuel. When he went to the dealer that sold it to him to work a deal they told him he was going to take negative equity. Mind you he bought it $16,000 under MSRP and there is no way that within 6 months and with it's low mileage that it lost $16,000+ in value! He then took it to another domestic brand dealer and walked away with a check for $1,846. In short they tried to screw him and despite the Fact that his son works at Ford he will never own another Ford again because the dealer. It's a shame too because he normally buys a new vehicle every year or every other! Here is another one, I bought a 06' Fusion and 6 months before contract time was looking to trade it for something I could pay off in just a few months to shore up my position in case of a strike. My note was only $380.00 a month and I was paying $400.00 a week for several months to knock down the principle. When I talked to the dealer that sold me my Fusion ( It has never been smoked in, eat in, or even drank in, and about 10,000 onder the average mileage for it's age. ) I was told that I would have to take a hit of $1000 negative equity. With as much as I had paid on the principle KBB showed that I had $1,800 positive equity. Tell me that ain't greedy. So guess what happened? The dealer was wrong because "I" decided that my car was worth more than that, and walked off the lot. Then I refinanced my car for the remainder of the balace instead of taking a loss. Now I have a well equipped 06' Fusion ( in the condition I already mentioned ) with a $240 dollar a month payment on a buy. It seems as though if you try to trade a vehicle you have bought on A/X Plan at the dealer you bought it at, they try to take that money back that Ford gave you in discount on the new deal!

[mlhm5]

Dean, it's not just the sales people that have a high turn over rate. Last dealership I worked at (5 1/2 years, it folded) we went through 5 service managers, 5 sales managers and 4 F&I managers in that amount of time. The only reason we didn't have a high turn over as far as the techs went was because they were given a 40 hour flat rate guarantee. Now you and I both know Ford does not control the pay for dealership employees, but the dealerships took a big hit when Ford (Jac the knife) cut all warranty reimbursement times roughly 30% in 1999 and the dealer principals are dong their best to keep good personel on board but like any company they have to show a profit or eventually fold. I was the parts manager and for the last year I was also the warranty administrator, some of these labor op reimbursment times are just not possible so the techs take "short cuts" which drops the quality of repair, customer comes back with the same problem. Now on some repairs Ford tells the techs to take shortcuts, P0401 (02m01) change the DPFE don't bother with any diagnosis, 6.0L EGR valve, clean and reinstall don't replace, and the customer is back at the dealership upset the problem has reoccured and of course it's the dealerships fault not Fords. Does Ford need to regain the consumers trust, you bet, would eliminating flat rate pay scale for warranty reimbursement help, you bet.

 

Unfortunatly I don't have a better idea as to how Ford could "moniter" the warranty repairs being made but I do know that Fords 126 report has put some dealerships in a position that they won't even claim "M" time when it's justified.

 

Happy dealers = happy employees = happy customers.

 

p.s. please excuse the bad spelling, in a hurry.

 

happy customers=happy stockholders

[NickF1011]

happy customers=happy stockholders

 

Eh, not necessarily. Apple would be HIGHLY popular with customers if they decided to sell iPods and iPhones for $20. It would probably piss off shareholders though because it would eat into profits.

 

There's always a balance.....

[Deanh]

You said it not me. I do have to ask you why do you guys feel it necessary to take back any manufacturer offerd employee incentives when taking in a trade. For instance my Dad bought a $62,000 Lincoln Navigator and saved $16,000 at the time of sale. He drove it off of the lot with a clear title and traded it within 6 months because it required premium fuel. When he went to the dealer that sold it to him to work a deal they told him he was going to take negative equity. Mind you he bought it $16,000 under MSRP and there is no way that within 6 months and with it's low mileage that it lost $16,000+ in value! He then took it to another domestic brand dealer and walked away with a check for $1,846. In short they tried to screw him and despite the Fact that his son works at Ford he will never own another Ford again because the dealer. It's a shame too because he normally buys a new vehicle every year or every other! Here is another one, I bought a 06' Fusion and 6 months before contract time was looking to trade it for something I could pay off in just a few months to shore up my position in case of a strike. My note was only $380.00 a month and I was paying $400.00 a week for several months to knock down the principle. When I talked to the dealer that sold me my Fusion ( It has never been smoked in, eat in, or even drank in, and about 10,000 onder the average mileage for it's age. ) I was told that I would have to take a hit of $1000 negative equity. With as much as I had paid on the principle KBB showed that I had $1,800 positive equity. Tell me that ain't greedy. So guess what happened? The dealer was wrong because "I" decided that my car was worth more than that, and walked off the lot. Then I refinanced my car for the remainder of the balace instead of taking a loss. Now I have a well equipped 06' Fusion ( in the condition I already mentioned ) with a $240 dollar a month payment on a buy. It seems as though if you try to trade a vehicle you have bought on A/X Plan at the dealer you bought it at, they try to take that money back that Ford gave you in discount on the new deal!

don't know the details of the transaction of your fathers except to say they were probably another brand and made money on selling their unit...buying a Ford Aplan is a wholesale tranaction and give the dealer no room to over allow on turn ins...and as for using KBB, throw it in the trash , it is A GUIDE....funny how people take it as gospel....but by all means call them and try to get them to buy your vehicle.....market fluctuations are crazy...if MASSIVE rebates come out on model X, then the value of a USED model X also takes a hit....

Edited February 14, 2008 by Deanh

[Noah Harbinger]

You said it not me. I do have to ask you why do you guys feel it necessary to take back any manufacturer offerd employee incentives when taking in a trade. For instance my Dad bought a $62,000 Lincoln Navigator and saved $16,000 at the time of sale. He drove it off of the lot with a clear title and traded it within 6 months because it required premium fuel. When he went to the dealer that sold it to him to work a deal they told him he was going to take negative equity. Mind you he bought it $16,000 under MSRP and there is no way that within 6 months and with it's low mileage that it lost $16,000+ in value! He then took it to another domestic brand dealer and walked away with a check for $1,846. In short they tried to screw him and despite the Fact that his son works at Ford he will never own another Ford again because the dealer. It's a shame too because he normally buys a new vehicle every year or every other! Here is another one, I bought a 06' Fusion and 6 months before contract time was looking to trade it for something I could pay off in just a few months to shore up my position in case of a strike. My note was only $380.00 a month and I was paying $400.00 a week for several months to knock down the principle. When I talked to the dealer that sold me my Fusion ( It has never been smoked in, eat in, or even drank in, and about 10,000 onder the average mileage for it's age. ) I was told that I would have to take a hit of $1000 negative equity. With as much as I had paid on the principle KBB showed that I had $1,800 positive equity. Tell me that ain't greedy. So guess what happened? The dealer was wrong because "I" decided that my car was worth more than that, and walked off the lot. Then I refinanced my car for the remainder of the balace instead of taking a loss. Now I have a well equipped 06' Fusion ( in the condition I already mentioned ) with a $240 dollar a month payment on a buy. It seems as though if you try to trade a vehicle you have bought on A/X Plan at the dealer you bought it at, they try to take that money back that Ford gave you in discount on the new deal!

 

*NEWSFLASH* Dealers screw customers on trade-ins! Go! Tell the world this astounding new information! Your intelligence and experience are wasted here!

 

Yeah it sucks but I can't imagine any reason why it should be more common amongst Ford dealers than any other make.

[Furious1Auto]

don't know the details of the transaction of your fathers except to say they were probably another brand and made money on selling their unit...buying a Ford Aplan is a wholesale tranaction and give the dealer no room to over allow on turn ins...and as for using KBB, throw it in the trash , it is A GUIDE....funny how people take it as gospel....but by all means call them and try to get them to buy your vehicle.....market fluctuations are crazy...if MASSIVE rebates come out on model X, then the value of a USED model X also takes a hit....

What do you mean over allow, just because it is a Ford dealer your vehicle is worth less? Now you are write about KBB being a guide, who determins the vehicles trade value are the customers trading them. My vehicle was selling for $18,500 used on the lots with higher mileage than my car had on it at the time I was working the deal, I was offered $12,000 and that was $1,000 below KBB. If I'm not crazy that is a $6,500 gross for the dealer without the additional they would have made on the vehicle I was going to purchase. It may have been as much as $12,000 gross if you include my purchase! Since I determine my trade value, when the dealer offered me less than I thought it was worth I walked, so I guess I was right my car was worth more than he said. He just f-cked him self out of a sale because I olny wanted to break even. You guys also f-cked Ford out of a sale every 1 to 2 years because of the situation with my father, and your business practices!

[92merc]

I don't know about your region, but the dealers and Banks around North Dakota use NADA Guides. They have both resale and trade in values. I've seen sometimes where KBB shows values much higher than I could even get selling a vehicle on my own.

 

I've bought two used vehicles in the past 2 years. One was 6 months old, the other 2 years old. In both cases, I was given a price HIGHER than what NADA showed on both my old vehicles. I think in both cases though, it was the dealer working to get my sale. Because both my vehicles weren't worth much, compared to the purchase price of the vehicles I was buying.

[Deanh]

What do you mean over allow, just because it is a Ford dealer your vehicle is worth less? Now you are write about KBB being a guide, who determins the vehicles trade value are the customers trading them. My vehicle was selling for $18,500 used on the lots with higher mileage than my car had on it at the time I was working the deal, I was offered $12,000 and that was $1,000 below KBB. If I'm not crazy that is a $6,500 gross for the dealer without the additional they would have made on the vehicle I was going to purchase. It may have been as much as $12,000 gross if you include my purchase! Since I determine my trade value, when the dealer offered me less than I thought it was worth I walked, so I guess I was right my car was worth more than he said. He just f-cked him self out of a sale because I olny wanted to break even. You guys also f-cked Ford out of a sale every 1 to 2 years because of the situation with my father, and your business practices!

obviously you do not know the business very well...and no offence is meant by that statement, but if you keep F bombing and come close to throwing tantrums then i will answer in a manner those actions deserve..over allowing means giving more than a vehicle is actually worth...guess where the "extra" comes from,,,front end profit on the new vehicle, all it is is juggling numbers, if your vehicle is SELLING for 18500, but uou get offered $12000 so what? thats ASKING price after probably 400 to make it certified, perhaps 1-1500 in recon and wiggling room for the dealer...and guess how many times someone gets retail for their vehicle? ever bought a car at sticker? KBB, AND NADA are guides...true numbers are those for which the vehicle can be bought for at actions such as Manheim...usually more than 1k below blue book....and don't feel bad, used Expeditions right now are 4k back, V10 pickups 3-3500 back, diesels 1-1500 back, sorry if you feel reality is F'ing you, it ios your world , we must all bow.....and bottom line, if one buys a NEW vehicle wholesale ( ie close to cost or X, A, Z plan ) do not expect the same dealer to give you RETAIL on your used trade in......easy way to cut thru the crap is call several dealers, even car max, and say you are not buying a car at all, you just want to sell them a car...gues what...REAL numbers, not the pie in the sky some expect for their sentimental baby.....and Furious, i am NOT trying to get into an argument here with you sos you can live up to your name...I just get weary of those that for some reason only think there is ONE side to the story....

Edited February 14, 2008 by Deanh

[Deanh]

*NEWSFLASH* Dealers screw customers on trade-ins! Go! Tell the world this astounding new information! Your intelligence and experience are wasted here!

 

Yeah it sucks but I can't imagine any reason why it should be more common amongst Ford dealers than any other make.

actually we don't Noah, the customer is quite entitled to attempt to sell their trade for what they think it is worth...most people with trade ins have tried........if one can it is usually 3-4k more than a dealer offers...interesting how that extra 4 k corresponds with what a dealer would ask if on his lot huh? Its called RETAIL...not wholesale....and basically customers want wholesale on their new car and REATIL on their trade in......

[Furious1Auto]

obviously you do not know the business very well...and no offence is meant by that statement, but if you keep F bombing and come close to throwing tantrums then i will answer in a manner those actions deserve..over allowing means giving more than a vehicle is actually worth...guess where the "extra" comes from,,,front end profit on the new vehicle, all it is is juggling numbers, if your vehicle is SELLING for 18500, but uou get offered $12000 so what? thats ASKING price after probably 400 to make it certified, perhaps 1-1500 in recon and wiggling room for the dealer...and guess how many times someone gets retail for their vehicle? ever bought a car at sticker? KBB, AND NADA are guides...true numbers are those for which the vehicle can be bought for at actions such as Manheim...usually more than 1k below blue book....and don't feel bad, used Expeditions right now are 4k back, V10 pickups 3-3500 back, diesels 1-1500 back, sorry if you feel reality is F'ing you, it ios your world , we must all bow.....and bottom line, if one buys a NEW vehicle wholesale ( ie close to cost or X, A, Z plan ) do not expect the same dealer to give you RETAIL on your used trade in......easy way to cut thru the crap is call several dealers, even car max, and say you are not buying a car at all, you just want to sell them a car...gues what...REAL numbers, not the pie in the sky some expect for their sentimental baby.....

Actually that is exactly what I did and was offered $12,000. I don't care what KBB says either. I look at the price comparable vehicles are retailing for when determining my cars value. KBB trade value is acctually lower! I know a little more about the business than you would like to admit. If everyone purchased using my methods you as a dealer would either cut your margins on used cars to stay in the used car business or not sell used at all because it would not be lucretive to do so! I'm not going to give up $6,500 in unrealized equity just so that you can get a bloated margin, and live well off of my foolishness! The F bombs where warranted. If you would like to throw them back I can hold my own!

Edited February 14, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Furious1Auto]

actually we don't Noah, the customer is quite entitled to attempt to sell their trade for what they think it is worth...most people with trade ins have tried........if one can it is usually 3-4k more than a dealer offers...interesting how that extra 4 k corresponds with what a dealer would ask if on his lot huh? Its called RETAIL...not wholesale....and basically customers want wholesale on their new car and REATIL on their trade in......

E-Bay changed all that, even crackheads don't sell at crackhead prices anymore if they have internet access. They just had a huge sting in Cleveland, where they found thousands in stolen goods pre-packaged for E-Bay sales. I can easily list an auto auction and get closer to retail. minus the $80.00 auction fee. It is also possible to make such a transaction on a car where there is still a balance due. The best part is that E-Bay also finances people who cannot afford to pay cash!

Edited February 14, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Deanh]

Actually that is exactly what I did and was offered $12,000. I don't care what KBB says either. I look at the price comparable vehicles are retailing for when determining my cars value. KBB trade value is acctually lower! I know a little more about the business than you would like to admit. If everyone purchased using my methods you as a dealer would either cut your margins on used cars to stay in the used car business or not sell used at all because it would not be lucretive to do so! I'm not going to give up $6,500 in unrealized equity just so that you can get a bloated margin, and live well off of my foolishness! The F bombs where warranted. If you would like to throw them back I can hold my own!

OBVIOUSLY YOU DON"T.....let me repeat...you are looking at what your car RETAILS for not estimated trade in value which ANYONE in their right mind knows is lower....and the 6500 doesn't go to us you friggin yo yo, look up the word DEPRECIATION in the damn dictionary...you needto go back to pre school theres a place waiting in the sand pit. And yeah your "methods " work a charm, you re-fi-ing your OWN car proves it! Obviously THAT method works a damn charm!

[Deanh]

E-Bay changed all that, even crackheads don't sell at crackhead prices anymore if they have internet access. They just had a huge sting in Cleveland, where they found thousands in stolen goods pre-packaged for E-Bay sales. I can easily list an auto auction and get closer to retail. minus the $80.00 auction fee. It is also possible to make such a transaction on a car where there is still a balance due. The best part is that E-Bay also finances people who cannot afford to pay cash!

perfect for a customer that wants more than ACV ( actual cash value ) on a potential trade in, like I have said there is usually a 3-4k difference between a trade in value and reatil...which is what e-bay sellers are attempting to get...I say cudo's if they have the patience....course what happens if its listed for two months because buyers think the asking price is too high? Sometimes then people just bite the bullet and trade the vehicle in, take the hit, and appreciate the conveinience.....

[Furious1Auto]

OBVIOUSLY YOU DON"T.....let me repeat...you are looking at what your car RETAILS for not estimated trade in value which ANYONE in their right mind knows is lower....and the 6500 doesn't go to us you friggin yo yo, look up the word DEPRECIATION in the damn dictionary...you needto go back to pre school theres a place waiting in the sand pit. And yeah your "methods " work a charm, you re-fi-ing your OWN car proves it! Obviously THAT method works a damn charm!

Well My car did not loose as much as the dealer said or he would have gotten it for that price. Once again you do not determine my trade value I do! I don't get what I want, then I don't trade. Normally you guys set the trade value and people are dumb if they agree! It is not worth what you say, just because you tell me it is. The seller/trader has a say also but most are too dumb/ignorant to see that. You saying that a car depreciates is like me saying that houses have to appreciate (we are now seeing that's not true) the reality of it is that that is determined by what agreement we can come to if at all! I wasn't asking for retail I just refused to take negative equity. I've sold before too, I knew exactly what the margin was. There is no such thing as a now sale sitting, we sat and I sold him On why I was not going to let him screw me!

Edited February 14, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Deanh]

Well My car did not loose as much as the dealer said or he would have gotten it for that price. Once again you do not determine my trade value I do! I don't get what I want, then I don't trade. Normally you guys set the trade value and people are dumb if they agree! It is not worth what you say, just because you tell me it is. The seller/trader has a say also but most are too dumb/ignorant to see that. You saying that a car depreciates is like me saying that houses have to appreciate (we are now seeing that's not true) the reality of it is that that is determined by what agreement we can come to if at all! I wasn't asking for retail I just refused to take negative equity. I've sold before too, I knew exactly what the margin was. There is no such thing as a now sale sitting, we sat and I sold him On why I was not going to let him screw me!

so, if you call 5 dealers and they pretty much all say the same thing you are still right no? Regardless, it IS your chioce if you trade a vehicle or not...you don't HAVE to do anything, the dealer didn't lose a sale and you didn't have to absorb negetive equity...so no one loses no one wins...sounds to me it just wasn't viable from both parties, happens all the time...a deal has to make sense from BOTH sides...NOT just one or it doesn't happen....also, just for your edification...we DO not set trade in values...the market does...just like addendums on halo cars, it is what the market will bear....but remember WE are the bad guys....funny thing is the market is set by the consumer......in your case it caused the negetive equity you so despise....his screwing you was just a reality check.....

Edited February 14, 2008 by Deanh