Reskinned Escape/Focus Failures?

[FordBuyer]

For months we have heard how the reskinned Escape/Focus would be failures and and and on how they were lame attempts and sales would show this. Instead both are best news story about Ford this year. And to think new drivetrain will be coming in few months for Escape and Focus is rumored to get ST model and more features to be added like adjustable rear head restraints. Ford has two winners here. Next Fusion coming early next year shouldn't do too badly either.

[suv_guy_19]

For months we have heard how the reskinned Escape/Focus would be failures and and and on how they were lame attempts and sales would show this. Instead both are best news story about Ford this year. And to think new drivetrain will be coming in few months for Escape and Focus is rumored to get ST model and more features to be added like adjustable rear head restraints. Ford has two winners here. Next Fusion coming early next year shouldn't do too badly either.

 

 

The negatards could never admit that they were wrong. Too many people here seem to think that their opinion is king. Often, as in this case, the buying public prove them wrong.

[range]

And don't forget to add the Edge to that list.

 

How can we ever forget the classic prediction...........

 

bec5150

Nov 2 2006, 04:40 PM Post #1

 

"I hate to say it, but she's gonna bomb. Go ahead, flame me, but we can revisit this in six months "

[DCK]

To get an adequete judgement of the focus and escape, I believe it is best to judge Ford's current position, where they used to be and focus on the capabilities of the product compared to its competition. Looking at sales, the focus and escape certainly are exceeding my predictions, though that has little to do to change the fact that they are rather very poor representations of the quality of product that Ford should be aiming for.

[ZanatWork]

Oh, boo-frickety-who DCK.

 

It's been reported that the Escape and Focus were among the last of the cars signed off by the pre-Mullaly/Fields collective. While I always hope for better things from Ford, the fact that these vehicles are brinigng in customers (particularly the Focus) and are apparently being built with the recent quality priorities is another sign of serious progress.

 

I figure, given the stories about Mullaly loving the Euro-Fords, the C2 Focus and the Kuga-ized Escape will be the representatives for their respective segments in the post-2010 years.

[FordBuyer]

Here is my take on why the reskinned Escape and Focus are selling so well:

 

 

Both offer good value for the money and customers recognize it and are buying the vehicles in nice numbers month after month. They may not be best in segment. but all around are good buys especially if you factor in price.

 

Now when Ford goes to European platforms for Focus and maybe does Kuga like small ute here, there could be a problem that could impact sales. Namely, what will the price be? They could be best in class, but if premium priced, base customers could go elsewhere. Pricing will be critical part of the equation. You can get a nicely optioned Escape Limited for about $26,000 sticker and Focus for about $18,000 sticker. Good value esepcially with rebates and other incentives added in. Now if European based Focus ends up stickering for $21,000+, Ford will lose customers no matter how good it is. Ditto for Kuga if it ends up stickering for $30,000+.

 

I sure hope Ford can keep its European platformed vehicles coming in few years competitively priced so that they represent what core Ford buyer wants. Ford has history of screwing up from time to time like they did when they ended Tempo and replaced it with "European" Contour costing thousands more. We know what happened there.

[Extreme4x4]

To get an adequete judgement of the focus and escape, I believe it is best to judge Ford's current position, where they used to be and focus on the capabilities of the product compared to its competition. Looking at sales, the focus and escape certainly are exceeding my predictions, though that has little to do to change the fact that they are rather very poor representations of the quality of product that Ford should be aiming for.

 

Ok, lets compare the Focus to its most direct competitor (if you want to be all American and all)......... the Cobalt.

 

Cobalt sales: Down 23% for the month, Up 14% for the year.

Focus sales: Up 24% for the month, Up 23.2% for the year.

 

Not bad for such a "failure."

 

The thing that some cannot stomach, is that this update was just a stopgap for the all new car coming in 2010. Yet, even this small improvement made a huge difference in desirability. GM cancelled their MCE for the Cobalt, and will pay the price.

 

On an interesting note, Aveo sales were also down. Even with high fuel prices, people cannot stomach just how much the Aveo sucks.

[pcsario]

Oh, boo-frickety-who DCK.

 

It's been reported that the Escape and Focus were among the last of the cars signed off by the pre-Mullaly/Fields collective. While I always hope for better things from Ford, the fact that these vehicles are brinigng in customers (particularly the Focus) and are apparently being built with the recent quality priorities is another sign of serious progress.

 

I figure, given the stories about Mullaly loving the Euro-Fords, the C2 Focus and the Kuga-ized Escape will be the representatives for their respective segments in the post-2010 years.

 

I can accept that.

 

FOE/FNA needs to work on the Kuga, though, it's more of a Vue competitor.

[8A4RE]

the fact that they are rather very poor representations of the quality of product that Ford should be aiming for.

 

Is this FACT based on your opinion??? The Escape and Focus are selling like hot cakes in Chicago.

[jobu37]

To get an adequete judgement of the focus and escape, I believe it is best to judge Ford's current position, where they used to be and focus on the capabilities of the product compared to its competition. Looking at sales, the focus and escape certainly are exceeding my predictions, though that has little to do to change the fact that they are rather very poor representations of the quality of product that Ford should be aiming for.

Go test drive a Focus, Corolla and Civic and then comback and see if you still feel the same way about the quality of the Focus. It is an incredibly refined automobile. The Corolla never has been and the Civic is behind the curve on NVH currently. It is becoming more difficult each day for people to justify the "premium' that one must pay for the perception of Toyota and Honda quality. I've always considered Honda loyalists the most blind of the import crowd and they are proving that to be the case since they continue to buy what is fast becoming the most outdated sub-compact, the Civic.

 

There is hope though, even the blind Honda loyalists are having trouble stomaching the new Accord with sales down roughly 5% YTD.

[jaydez]

Go test drive a Focus, Corolla and Civic and then comback and see if you still feel the same way about the quality of the Focus. It is an incredibly refined automobile. The Corolla never has been and the Civic is behind the curve on NVH currently. It is becoming more difficult each day for people to justify the "premium' that one must pay for the perception of Toyota and Honda quality. I've always considered Honda loyalists the most blind of the import crowd and they are proving that to be the case since they continue to buy what is fast becoming the most outdated sub-compact, the Civic.

 

There is hope though, even the blind Honda loyalists are having trouble stomaching the new Accord with sales down roughly 5% YTD.

 

 

I agree. While I have not yet driven the new Focus, I drove a 99 SE and a 2003 SVT. Both were incredible cars. My ex has an 06 Corolla. I hated driving that thing. I test drive the new Civic. It was loud over rough roads and handled worse than anyother car i tested.

 

The new Focus is really nice (except the front end) and im glad to see it doing well.

[630land]

pc and DCK head are fun to dis-prove, with their twisted logic and silly claims.

[inteller]

Ford could reskin a car to look like a turd and as long as it got 30+ mpg it would sell in this market.

 

The focus isn't selling because it looks good. It sells because brand loyal idiots can't afford their gas guzzlers anymore.

 

I've asked a number of 08 owners about their car. The first thing that comes out of their mouth is "it gets good gas milage" They don't want these cars, but they are brand loyal and this is the only thing from ford that gets in the 30s.

Edited July 10, 2008 by inteller

[NickF1011]

Ford could reskin a car to look like a turd and as long as it got 30+ mpg it would sell in this market.

 

The focus isn't selling because it looks good. It sells because brand loyal idiots can't afford their gas guzzlers anymore.

 

I've asked a number of 08 owners about their car. The first thing that comes out of their mouth is "it gets good gas milage" They don't want these cars, but they are brand loyal and this is the only thing from ford that gets in the 30s.

 

They could buy something else that gets good gas milage. Nobody holds a gun to their head and makes them choose Escape and Focus. Sure, fuel economy might be their number one reason, but it's not their ONLY reason.

[inteller]

They could buy something else that gets good gas milage. Nobody holds a gun to their head and makes them choose Escape and Focus. Sure, fuel economy might be their number one reason, but it's not their ONLY reason.

 

 

GOOD GOD! I said it twice so someone wouldn't reply with this stupid comment. They buy them because they are BRAND LOYAL

 

listen, when ford gives these folks a better choice in the future, these people will take it. But right now Ford is a one trick pony for MPG....

Edited July 10, 2008 by inteller

[suv_guy_19]

GOOD GOD! I said it twice so someone wouldn't reply with this stupid comment. They buy them because they are BRAND LOYAL

 

listen, when ford gives these folks a better choice in the future, these people will take it. But right now Ford is a one trick pony for MPG....

 

Prove it.

[suv_guy_19]

http://autos.yahoo.com/ford_focus-reviews_user/

 

There are many other pros listed besides FE. Looks is even thrown in a few times. I don't know why its so hard for people to admit that something they don't like might be attractive to others. You aren't the worlds styling conscience.

[NLPRacing]

GOOD GOD! I said it twice so someone wouldn't reply with this stupid comment. They buy them because they are BRAND LOYAL

 

listen, when ford gives these folks a better choice in the future, these people will take it. But right now Ford is a one trick pony for MPG....

 

I'm one of those BRAND LOYAL that you're talking about. Personally, I like the way the Escape looks, so much in fact, I would consider buying one if I didn't have 3 kids. But I think the Focus is god awful ugly. I know people that are looking at buying the Focus because they think it looks better then a Civic & Corolla. Go figure...

[NickF1011]

GOOD GOD! I said it twice so someone wouldn't reply with this stupid comment. They buy them because they are BRAND LOYAL

 

listen, when ford gives these folks a better choice in the future, these people will take it. But right now Ford is a one trick pony for MPG....

 

I know what you said. Brand loyalty alone wouldn't come close to accounting for the increase in Focus sales, especially when it has been said that the conquest rate on the new Focus is particularly higher than the previous design it replaced.

 

As for the one-trick pony remark....I guess that depends on what kind of vehicle you need. Escape, Focus, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, etc...ALL offer very competitive fuel economy for their respective classes. Not everybody wants a compact car, you know. In fact, most people avoid them if they can.

[nickz]

Ford could reskin a car to look like a turd and as long as it got 30+ mpg it would sell in this market.

 

The focus isn't selling because it looks good. It sells because brand loyal idiots can't afford their gas guzzlers anymore.

 

I've asked a number of 08 owners about their car. The first thing that comes out of their mouth is "it gets good gas milage" They don't want these cars, but they are brand loyal and this is the only thing from ford that gets in the 30s.

 

Well, I might be an idiot, but I'm not brand loyal. The '09 SEL I have on order will be my first new Ford, and only my second Ford ever. (The first was a beat up, used '72 Maverick (with the 302) that I bought as my first car when I was 15.) I've driven mainly GM all my life. Add me to the group that likes the look of the new Focus. Yes, I decided to get into something good on gas, but I'm not skimping on the toys on my loaded SEL. I'm not a kid (42), and at my age I like my creature comforts. (I ordered an '09 because I couldn't find any '08s they way I wanted them.)

[theoldwizard]

GOOD GOD! I said it twice so someone wouldn't reply with this stupid comment. They buy them because they are BRAND LOYAL

I'll buy your statement.

 

But, how do those BRAND LOYAL Ford fans feel when the '09 comes out with powertrains that provide more power and better fuel economy ? Ford must feel that their BRAND LOYAL fans are not savvy enough to compare their wonderful '08 to an '09.

 

If it was me, I would be pissed. Same with the Zephyr/MKZ ... "early adopters" wound up buying an underpowered orphan.

 

This is a big part of The Way Forward that I do not agree with !

[NickF1011]

I'll buy your statement.

 

But, how do those BRAND LOYAL Ford fans feel when the '09 comes out with powertrains that provide more power and better fuel economy ? Ford must feel that their BRAND LOYAL fans are not savvy enough to compare their wonderful '08 to an '09.

 

If it was me, I would be pissed. Same with the Zephyr/MKZ ... "early adopters" wound up buying an underpowered orphan.

 

This is a big part of The Way Forward that I do not agree with !

 

So Ford should either A> launch the new vehicles a year later or B> not upgrade the engines at all?

 

Neither of those proposals makes sense. And well...early adopters getting screwed is a fact of life with all technology.

[theoldwizard]

So Ford should either A> launch the new vehicles a year later or B> not upgrade the engines at all?

 

Neither of those proposals makes sense.

Option A> worked for many, many years.

 

And well...early adopters getting screwed is a fact of life with all technology.

Do the "masses" look at cars as "technology" or "commodities" or are they just not savvy ?

[NickF1011]

Option A> worked for many, many years.

 

 

Do the "masses" look at cars as "technology" or "commodities" or are they just not savvy ?

 

Nothing at Ford was exactly working for many, many years. There were reasons they lost billions of dollars. Offering stale product on dealer lots for too long was one of those reasons. It's not like the '08 Focus isn't a huge improvement over the '07, even without the new powertrains. New powertrains just make a compelling new product even more appealing.

 

Whether the masses look at cars as technology or not, they are technology, and as such, they will constantly evolve.

[suv_guy_19]

If it was me, I would be pissed. Same with the Zephyr/MKZ ... "early adopters" wound up buying an underpowered orphan.

 

First, 221 is far from underpowered, and second, they knew what amount they were getting when they bought it. It really makes no difference how much power it had the next year.

Edited July 11, 2008 by suv_guy_19