WHAT'S THE PROFIT MARGIN FOR FORD FLEX

[battyr]

Ford won't disclose the profit they make on each model they sell. Ford have been losing money for the last few years. So they either make $10,000 on every F-150 they sell and Lose $10,000 on every Focus they sell, or they don't make so much on each truck they sell.

[salsakingcpa]

The profit margin at the dealership level might be 7 to 10 thousand per Flex sold but you can bet the house that the profit to Ford Motor Company is a hell of a lot higher than that. You'll never know just how high that margin is because major corporations like Ford, Toyota and ohter car makers don't want you to know that information; because if the general public ever found out how badly they were getting taken to the cleaners for the cost of a new car they'd never buy one again.

 

You are the Man!!! What you said is so true.

 

Ford, under Mr. Mulally, is buying out a large number of dealers right now; this way there are fewer dealers, greater volume, and then Ford can lower the margins given to the dealers. That's how Ford is doing in Brazil.

[Edstock]

The profit margin at the dealership level might be 7 to 10 thousand per Flex sold but you can bet the house that the profit to Ford Motor Company is a hell of a lot higher than that. You'll never know just how high that margin is because major corporations like Ford, Toyota and ohter car makers don't want you to know that information; because if the general public ever found out how badly they were getting taken to the cleaners for the cost of a new car they'd never buy one again.

Maybe. Go price an engine foundry and the supporting infrastructure it requires, and amortize its lifetime cost over the number of units sold. Same thing for transmissions, stamping plants.

[J-150]

The profit margin at the dealership level might be 7 to 10 thousand per Flex sold but you can bet the house that the profit to Ford Motor Company is a hell of a lot higher than that. You'll never know just how high that margin is because major corporations like Ford, Toyota and ohter car makers don't want you to know that information; because if the general public ever found out how badly they were getting taken to the cleaners for the cost of a new car they'd never buy one again.

 

 

 

there is no way dealers make $10k per vehicle sold.

[smok]

UPDATE: Found out this morning that Ford Edge is proving to be a bomb!!! If this is the case, then forget about Flex having a 7-10,000 profit margin; in the end, it is going to break even at best. Ford Edges are having both transmission and front axle problems at around 13,000 miles. WTF?

 

 

I found this from a different Forum:

Posted by: Shannon | Feb 5, 2008 3:57:02 PM

Hi! I fell in love with the Ford Edge until I bought one. I am disappointed in the quality and customer service. I pray that it gets better.

 

Posted by: Susan | Feb 8, 2008 11:17:55 AM

I have a 2007 SEL Plus, and I am currently getting the entire trasmission replaced. They replaced the transfer case seal once and the trasmission fluid kept leaking. They said no matter how many times they replace the seal, it will still have a leak, so that is why they are replacing the whole transmission. I am pretty frustrated considering the car is not even a year old. Figure it out FORD!

 

Posted by: Maggie | Mar 8, 2008 1:39:56 PM

13000 miles and my transmission is done. Good thing it happened 200 miles from home on a sat night. I couldnt even get a rental. Thanks ford for the great product.

 

Posted by: tybraxx | Mar 22, 2008 8:36:45 PM

At 11,500 miles, I have a transmission leak and I am very concerned about it's future considering trouble beginning with such a low mileage, other wise, I love my 2007 SEL

 

Posted by: Amy Davis | Mar 27, 2008 10:39:47 PM

Join the club too... just took my 07 Ford Edge in for transmission leak at 11,000 miles. Drove it around the next day after it the Ford Dealership said it was fixed. A big puddle of transmission fluid in my garage. Now they say, their is a service alert to all Ford Dealers about the problem. I wonder if I can get them to consider giving me another car as from I see the problems with the transmission are ongoing.

 

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:fkcwM...;cd=1&gl=us

 

 

FROM A DIFFERENT SITE:

 

#3 of 5

Ford Edge by advicepls

Jan 17, 2008 (3:04 pm)

Reply

 

My ford edge with 9k miles was smelling like exhaust inside the car. Ford found and fixed a rear axle seal. This took about 2 weeks because of the holidays and another part being defective and in short supply. The car still has this sporadic smell of exhaust or burning inside and outside the car. One time, smoke was coming in through the vent.

 

My ford dealer said to bring it back when it is making the same smell again. The problem is that it is sporadic and of short duration. Any suggestions? Anyone else experiencing this problem?

 

My dealer does not have a loaner available unless they know what the problem is.

 

* Replies to this message: goatee (Jan 17, 2008 4:24 pm)

o advicepls (Jan 18, 2008 5:43 am)

 

#4 of 5

Re: Ford Edge [advicepls] by goatee

Jan 17, 2008 (4:24 pm)

Reply

 

Replying to: advicepls (Jan 17, 2008 3:04 pm)

I am reading more about this every day. Seems to be a problem with the seals in the transmission. Please check the posts in Blueovalnews.com, go under Edge Forums then TSB's Maintenance section -scroll down and you will see what I mean. I hope they get a handle on this problem. Dont wait to get it fixed.

 

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f179ccc

 

I can just copy and paste a lot of the honda and toyota trans problem issues. What is your point? All manufacturers will have issues. Somehow Honda and Toyota keep their issues low key

[BlackHorse]

there is no way dealers make $10k per vehicle sold.

 

LMAO. Really? You really believe that? How many of you folks around here remember back in 05 when the gas prices really started taking off and Ford was offering 10 thousand dollar rebates on the Expeditions? The following year the retail price of new Expeditions was lower. How do you think they manage to do that and still have money left over to fund all these engine foundries and transmission plants and NASCAR teams like Edstock points out?

 

Come on J-150, during the height of SUV sales in the mid 90's a dealership was easily clearing 10 grand on an Expy or a well equipped F150. They most likely still do. Like I said, the one that's making the real money isn't the dealer, it's FOMOCO.

[J-150]

LMAO. Really? You really believe that? How many of you folks around here remember back in 05 when the gas prices really started taking off and Ford was offering 10 thousand dollar rebates on the Expeditions? The following year the retail price of new Expeditions was lower. How do you think they manage to do that and still have money left over to fund all these engine foundries and transmission plants and NASCAR teams like Edstock points out?

 

Come on J-150, during the height of SUV sales in the mid 90's a dealership was easily clearing 10 grand on an Expy or a well equipped F150. They most likely still do. Like I said, the one that's making the real money isn't the dealer, it's FOMOCO.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, Ford made $10k per truck, but not the dealer.

[salsakingcpa]

I can just copy and paste a lot of the honda and toyota trans problem issues. What is your point? All manufacturers will have issues. Somehow Honda and Toyota keep their issues low key

 

Very True!!! Transplants get away with it, and somehow Ford & GM can't. Someone was saying that Ford stopped advertising with NBC, CBS, and ABC, and that had an effect on it. But who knows.

 

My point was I thought Quality has gotten better, but it has yet to show on the EDGES! Maybe it's because it's first time it was ever produced?

Edited May 12, 2008 by salsakingcpa

[jpd80]

I love to know how a company with the profit margins suggest on this thread could be so terribly in the red.

I know, I know, all eaten up in Special Items for restructuring but, you gotta wonder what's going on there......

 

Ford makes $10K per truck and still loses around $3 billion in North America? go figure...

Edited May 12, 2008 by jpd80

[P71_CrownVic]

5 years ago, Toyota would have given their left nut to have 80% large pickups and SUVs (which had the highest margins at the time)

 

And who is better off now?

[suv_guy_19]

My point was I thought Quality has gotten better, but it has yet to show on the EDGES!

 

 

It has shown on the Edges. There are going to be problems with any vehicle. You haven't proved anything.

[salsakingcpa]

It has shown on the Edges. There are going to be problems with any vehicle. You haven't proved anything.

I don't have to prove anything!!! doh!!! It is Ford; better show something right away, or it's going to go belly up whether the Fords or Tracindas own it. US economy will be heading to a depression like symptoms right after the election is over. Those who bought are dumb people, SUV guy is the epitome of all the SUV owners and builders.

[Surgen]

Salsaking - have you driven an EcoSport? I suspect not, if you're suggesting they are the solution to anything.

 

Compared to most NA vehicles, they are noisy, have cheap interiors, dated styling - and probably can't meet U.S. crash/emissions. They're perfectly good for an emerging market, but not for a launch as a current model in the U.S. or Europe. A future/updated EcoSport maybem but not the current one. And given the economic boom that's happening in SA right now - I doubt they have a whole lot of excess capacity to export to the U.S. (and have you looked at the current Real/US dollar exchange rate?) And the big costs for launching a vehicle are in tooling up the plant and the suppliers. And they're certainly not a replacement for an Escape - they are significantly smaller.

[salsakingcpa]

Salsaking - have you driven an EcoSport? I suspect not, if you're suggesting they are the solution to anything. Compared to most NA vehicles, they are noisy, have cheap interiors, dated styling - and probably can't meet U.S. crash/emissions. They're perfectly good for an emerging market, but not for a launch as a current model in the U.S. or Europe. A future/updated EcoSport maybem but not the current one. And given the economic boom that's happening in SA right now - I doubt they have a whole lot of excess capacity to export to the U.S. (and have you looked at the current Real/US dollar exchange rate?) And the big costs for launching a vehicle are in tooling up the plant and the suppliers. And they're certainly not a replacement for an Escape - they are significantly smaller.

 

What you said is all True!!! Like you said, it is significantly smaller, and that's what Ford needs from now on because gas prices will be heading to 5 to 8 a gallon, and as gas prices go up, consumers have less and less money. We are basically going back to model T, and consumers won't mind if it is noisy, has cheap interiors, and have dated styling (have you seen the new ones; it has new styling now). Due to economic compression, people don't have the capital or credit to buy expensive cars. In the future, I think we'll be seeing lots of cars like ecosports and tatas. You can have a tata car for $2500. What a deal.

[Surgen]

$8 a gallon isn't happening in the near future. We'll see $3 a gallon again, before we see $8 a gallon.

 

There has been a move to more expensive interiors in smaller cars, not to cheaper ones. People are looking to downgrade size, not in features, quality of materials.

 

The 'newer' EcoSport would still look dated in the U.S. It still shares a lot of styling cues with the old Escape.

[salsakingcpa]

$8 a gallon isn't happening in the near future. We'll see $3 a gallon again, before we see $8 a gallon.There has been a move to more expensive interiors in smaller cars, not to cheaper ones. People are looking to downgrade size, not in features, quality of materials.The 'newer' EcoSport would still look dated in the U.S. It still shares a lot of styling cues with the old Escape.

 

It's possible that gas prices will go down to $3 as presidential election approaches, but after that sky is the limit. What you said about Eco

Sport is true, but why not offer it as an entry segment instead of losing sales to Kias and Hyundais?

[salsakingcpa]

The 'newer' EcoSport would still look dated in the U.S. It still shares a lot of styling cues with the old Escape.

 

What brand image? The EcoSport ain't some entry-level cheapomobile. It's based heavily on the well-respected Fiesta and Fusion (Europe) mini-MPV. The EcoSport may be small, but drive one... it'll put a smile on your face, and you'll have no idea why!

 

It doesn't steer, brake, or corner any differently than you'd expect of an itty-bitty ute, but for some reason it's really fun to drive!

 

If it were permissible (or feasible) I would have bought an EcoSport in Caracas and shipped it here for a daily runabout!

 

If Ford does decide to sell a CUV this small, it would be wise to pitch it as an alternative to a subcompact car, rather than as a shrunken SUV.

 

Not only do I think the EcoSport wouldn't hurt Ford's image, but might be a welcome addition to the Ford family. Who knows, maybe baby-utes might be a big hit, aimed at buyers who want something economical, but don't want a dreary Aveo, Yaris, or Accent.

 

With $4-per-gallon gas looming, ittybitty crossovers like this might be just the ticket!

[rmc523]

I concur with you 100%. With F-150+ sales plummeting by 20/30%, Ford really needs to make it up with higher production and sales of Flex, Escape, and Edge. They are the next runner up as far as profit/operating margin goes when compared to F-150/250s and Explorers. Contribution from Focus and Fusion helps, but car sales have low margin. Boggles my mind that Taurus Sedan is not advertised; I guess Ford doesn't want Taurus X to compete with the Flexes.

 

Too bad, Ford didn't bring EcoSports from Brazil because most/all R&D was paid for, but the heir apparent Mark Fields opted for a new design-Escapes. Do you think Ford Transit will be made in the US? It has to keep it union members occupied.

 

Where have you been the past 3 years since the Five Hundred/Freestyle and Taurus/Taurus X were launched? None of these vehicles were EVER advertised properly and never will be, until the next gen, 2010 model. And while Ford may not want Taurus X sales to encroach on Flex sales, I doubt that's the reason the vehicle wasn't advertised.

 

Escape is bigger than EcoSport....trust me I've seen both. EcoSport is a b-sized SUV.

 

It appears that the Transit may be built here alongside the Econoline.

 

With Gas prices going so high, Escape could proved to be too large, Ford needs Cuvs that are lighter, cheaper, and smaller. Because of short sighted people like you that dominate US automobile industry, Detroit Big 3 are going belly up. Chrysler is owned by a Hedge Fund, and the same Hedge fund directly controls GMAC which indirectly controls GM, and now Tracinda, another hedge fund type of company, is getting Ford for a chop change. Why do you think FORD IS SELLING ALMOST 15/20,000 UNITS A MONTH? why do u think Mustang sales are plummeting?

 

Again, people like you and Fields only see today, and not tomorrow. SUV/Truck owners can not even trade in their gas guzzlers because most dealers wont' take them as gas guzzlers values have fallen dramatically. Now these people will be buying Kias and Hyundais.

 

As another poster mentioned, Escape sales are up. Ford will also be introducing some sort of b-sized SUV within a few years from what I've read.

 

agreed. Toyota couldn't sell the smaller 2 door RAV4 either. Micro SUVs have a limited market

 

Well, being a 2-door SUV didn't exactly help it's case. Two door SUVs aren't very practical.

[rmc523]

With EcoSports, Ford would sold twice as mcuh and made better profit, why don't you grow up, and start thinking like successful businessmen ala Japanese executives do. Mr. Mulally is going to unify CUVs across the Americas and the world what Mr. Mulally wants to do.

 

Fields by introducing Escapes, which cost a pretty sum of money for a fresh design and tooling, introduced another car model ala GM introducing another brand which is going to disappear in two or three years.

 

Most important of all, why do you think, Ford South American consistently make 800 million to 1 billion dollar a year with 1/10 of volume (of NA) with B rated cars like you claimed, and North America couldn't make a dime in 2007 with such non B rated cars like Escapes.

 

In the end, Escape is going away (WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY), and EcoSport which sound so much greener and fun will stay.

 

 

 

 

About Mustangs. That's not the point, the point is due to rising gas prices, sales of Mustangs are going down, and will keep going down whether an updated version comes out or not.

 

Mustangs need to be rightsized to a smaller version ala Genesis with independent rear suspension to reclaim its crown down the road with so much good competition coming. It is such a gas guzzler, Mr. Mulally would have to think about something to meet the new mpg rules down the road, and tell Fields to pick up his pink check and go to work for GM, maybe GM will hire Fields as its new CEO.

 

 

 

Again you are missing the point, and that is the reason I say people like you really messed up Detroit. Both Detroit and People are stupid that they produced and bought SUVs and other gas guzzlers in the first place. Haven't you learned your mistakes? In the eighties, big 3 almost went belly up because their autos were so much bigger and consumed more gas than their Japanese counterparts? Now, it's the same again, instead of gas guzzling cars, Detroit produced gas guzzling SUVs.

 

Do you know how to add or substract? Since you don't remember, I'll show it to you. If your car payment is $400-600 a month, and your gas payments are 360 dollars a month; and your new car payment and gas payment is going to be much less than 760/960 dollars a month, people are thinking that they are definitely better off with a smaller car.

 

Time has come that people will be walking away from their SUVs like Explorers just like people walked away from their houses with negative amortization meaning what they owe was greater than what they could get for 'em.

 

Real losers: Detroit big 3, and their affiliates including employees. If people start walking away, Both Ford and Ford Credit will be left holding the bag, and people who walk away from the guzzlers, they can always buy cheap economic used cars down the road.

 

Alan Mulally said that Ford abdicated from producing cars and started producing gas guzzlers and that is anathema with Mr. Mulally. At Boeing he introduced and advocated Boeing 777 that consume less kerosene than its competitor Airbus version of it - A340.

 

The EcoSport was not deemed up to US standards, that's why Fields decided to wait for a different, better quality model rather than importing the EcoSport. And what makes you think the Escape is going away? It's staying, and I don't know what would make you think otherwise.

 

In regards to Mustang, if more fuel efficient powerplants are available (which there will be: EB powerplants, etc.), then you'll see Mustang sales at least stay at certain levels, if not increase. Also, weight could and should be taken out to help further with fuel economy.

 

People wanted SUVs and trucks, so that's what Ford built. Now that fuel prices are increasing, people are shifting away from the trucks and SUVs. Ford is responding, albeit slowly, but is doing so well with the products we are beginning to see coming into dealers.

 

Truth of the matter is that Fields is in a really tight spot because he is no longer in charge of North America as he used to. Advertising is controlled by Fields, and manufacturing is controlled by Joseph .... (forgot his last name). Mr. Joseph.... is such a smart guy, he was the youngest plant manager in the history of Ford Motor.

 

I believe you're referring to Joe Hinrichs.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Me duele la cabeza...

[rmc523]

J-150, you are missing the point, the POINT is the Japanese automakers, Toyota, Nissan & Honda can make so MUCH money with low margin cars, and THE US AUTOMAKERS are making ZERO PROFITS with HIGHEST MARGIN trucks.

 

So when the Japanese automakers finally make inroads into the truck market what's going to happen?

 

Well, I think Toyota and Nissan have proven so far that the Japanese haven't been able to make inroads into the truck market.

 

and consumers won't mind if it is noisy, has cheap interiors, and have dated styling (have you seen the new ones; it has new styling now). Due to economic compression, people don't have the capital or credit to buy expensive cars. In the future, I think we'll be seeing lots of cars like ecosports and tatas. You can have a tata car for $2500. What a deal.

 

I think it's just the opposite: consumers are demanding the most up-to-date, feature filled, economic, good quality vehicles for low prices.

 

What brand image? The EcoSport ain't some entry-level cheapomobile. It's based heavily on the well-respected Fiesta and Fusion (Europe) mini-MPV. The EcoSport may be small, but drive one... it'll put a smile on your face, and you'll have no idea why!

 

It doesn't steer, brake, or corner any differently than you'd expect of an itty-bitty ute, but for some reason it's really fun to drive!

 

If it were permissible (or feasible) I would have bought an EcoSport in Caracas and shipped it here for a daily runabout!

 

If Ford does decide to sell a CUV this small, it would be wise to pitch it as an alternative to a subcompact car, rather than as a shrunken SUV.

 

Not only do I think the EcoSport wouldn't hurt Ford's image, but might be a welcome addition to the Ford family. Who knows, maybe baby-utes might be a big hit, aimed at buyers who want something economical, but don't want a dreary Aveo, Yaris, or Accent.

 

With $4-per-gallon gas looming, ittybitty crossovers like this might be just the ticket!

 

I think baby crossovers will do ok in the current marketplace. Will they be the next big thing? They could be down the road, especially if gas prices continue to rise as much as they are. I don't think they'll be a real big thing right now though.

[NickF1011]

What you said is all True!!! Like you said, it is significantly smaller, and that's what Ford needs from now on because gas prices will be heading to 5 to 8 a gallon, and as gas prices go up, consumers have less and less money. We are basically going back to model T, and consumers won't mind if it is noisy, has cheap interiors, and have dated styling (have you seen the new ones; it has new styling now). Due to economic compression, people don't have the capital or credit to buy expensive cars. In the future, I think we'll be seeing lots of cars like ecosports and tatas. You can have a tata car for $2500. What a deal.

 

People would not buy the Ecosport. There are plenty of other alternatives that DO have a nice interior, and aren't noisy, and don't have dated styling. No matter how little money people want to spend on a new vehicle, they still want QUALITY, and they should expect it. The Ecosport would have done more damage to Ford than it would have helped.

[jobu37]

In a month's time the Escape and Mariner are going to be best in class in regards to fuel economy and best in class in horsepower on the four cylinder models. All of this due to the new engines and transmissions. Even though up til now they have not been best in class in either of these categories, they have been very successful refreshes. The CRV is the only credible competition currently, as the RAV4 has drifted off into irrelevance. The only thing the CRV currently has over the Escape is mpg, it sure the hell isn't styling. With that advantage being taken away it makes sense that a few more of the flock of Honda sheep might jump the fence.

 

So the theory that the Escape needs to be replaced by the Ecosport is just rantings of a man who obviously needs to call his doctor and get him to renew his scrips. Right now as we discuss this idiotic thread there are probably five variants being considered as CUVs based on the Verve concept since even Ford realizes that a CUV that is the right size today will be too big in the future. But for the time being nothing competitive is offered below the Escape's size so having the most efficient and powerful entry in the smallest current CUV category should bode well for Ford.

Edited May 12, 2008 by jobu37

[salsakingcpa]

So the theory that the Escape needs to be replaced by the Ecosport is just rantings of a man who obviously needs to call his doctor and get him to renew his scrips. Right now as we discuss this idiotic thread there are probably five variants being considered as CUVs based on the Verve concept since even Ford realizes that a CUV that is the right size today will be too big in the future. But for the time being nothing competitive is offered below the Escape's size so having the most efficient and powerful entry in the smallest current CUV category should bode well for Ford.

 

Ignorant people say all kinds of stuff; what can you do? They stay Ignorant; it's fine with me because and no wonder US lost 80% world and US market share down to tiny 45% US, and 5% world output. Ignorant people, in the end, lose everything- bad habits die hard. Well, what can you do? Nothing.

 

Here's what Igor has to say.

Re: Mystery fords spotted anyone knows what they are

One more point - EcoSport IS coming to the US - the NEW global Eco Sport built on the new Fiesta with global-worthy interior ... even Europe might see it with the new love for 4x4's Europeans have developed.

 

Ford is trying to change the US operations - and the move to kill the US EcoSport was one of the steps ... next up - make Fusion up to snuff, release world beating Taurus, release the Fiesta, unite Focus, Escape/Kuga, and Ranger. And a LOT more

 

Igor

__________________

www.autosavant.net

[J-150]

Ignorant people say all kinds of stuff; what can you do?

 

 

 

thanks for finally admitting it.