Ford Flex - Counterpoint

[rmc523]

I saw a Flex and Taurus X parked side by each on a dealership lot. They are pretty much the same size which surprised me because I was under the impresion that the Flex was going to be a larger vehicle. They also have the same seating capabilities. The Flex and Taurus X pretty much compete with each other on the same lot, which represents a General Motors type problem within the single Ford brand name.

 

The Taurus X is a pretty good vehicle in it's own right but Ford needs to dump it and run with the newer Flex.

 

It's already been announced the Taurus X will die either by or for the 2010 model year.

 

I saw a Flex parked in downtown Summit, NJ last night without any plates or paper...very odd, but my first thought was that it was much smaller than I imagined. The interior looked amazing.

 

Two things I could think of, but one (or both) may be eliminated depending on how well you looked at that particular Flex. The first, it could be a "test drive" vehicle, I know our salesperson has given us vehicles overnight to drive around at times (we've known him for years), and the tag could be in the dash or something rather than tacked on the back, but since you said the interior looked amazing, I doubt that since you probably would've noticed a tag sitting on the dash. The second is maybe the paper (or real) tag was in the rear window and you couldn't see it through the tint, as maybe they didn't have a way to fasten it at the moment?

 

Just a couple of possibilities...

[rmc523]

No, you prove that Ford only expected to sell 70K units a year.

 

 

As soon as you prove that Ford only expected to sell 70K units a year.

 

Okay, some may not like the fact that I sometimes post more than once (or twice, or 3 times....) in a row (as I just did, sorry), but at least I respond to different posts, and I don't have two responses to one quote (at least on separate posts).

[Michael Reynolds]

There was a Kia ad on the TV advertising the fuel efficiency of a Sportage, touting the vehicle's 23 MPG on the HWY. Just food for thought.

[NickF1011]

There was a Kia ad on the TV advertising the fuel efficiency of a Sportage, touting the vehicle's 23 MPG on the HWY. Just food for thought.

 

Exactly. Anything mid-20's from a crossover/SUV is pretty darn impressive, especially considering all of those with Explorers, Trailblazers, etc that are getting ready to trade in.

[Mark B. Morrow]

The customer assumes the dealer is representing Ford. The customer has no other interface with Ford

 

I have always recognized that dealers are not the manufacturer. Some dealers are good and some are bad. I have owned several new cars in the past 25 years and have had a variety of sales and service experiences. I pick the vehicle I want and then find the best dealer for the purchase and service. Happily, I have had mostly positive experiences with the Ford dealers I have dealt with.

 

If you don't like the deal or the service go somewhere else.

[P71_CrownVic]

There was a Kia ad on the TV advertising the fuel efficiency of a Sportage, touting the vehicle's 23 MPG on the HWY. Just food for thought.

 

I can get 22MPG on the highway in my grandma's V8 Rainier...

[papilgee4evaeva]

I can get 22MPG on the highway in my grandma's V8 Rainier...

 

Rated 18 (2WD) or 17 (4WD). 22 is not unbelievable, but YMMV indeed.

 

Does your grandmother's Rainier have AFM? The ones 2005 and later did.

[suv_guy_19]

Rated 18 (2WD) or 17 (4WD). 22 is not unbelievable, but YMMV indeed.

 

Does your grandmother's Rainier have AFM? The ones 2005 and later did.

 

 

I Can believe him. Now that its warm, the Rendezvous can get as much as 30 MPG with the wind pushing it. It gets 25 most of the time. In the winter, it on;y got about 20 - 21.

[P71_CrownVic]

Rated 18 (2WD) or 17 (4WD). 22 is not unbelievable, but YMMV indeed.

 

Does your grandmother's Rainier have AFM? The ones 2005 and later did.

 

2006 Rainiers had the AFM. She has a 2005.

 

If I needed a V8 SUV, I would get a Rainier without even thinking about it. They are fantastic vehicles.

[papilgee4evaeva]

2006 Rainiers had the AFM. She has a 2005.

 

If I needed a V8 SUV, I would get a Rainier without even thinking about it. They are fantastic vehicles.

 

Still all about the used or dying-platform market, huh... :lol:

 

But personally, I prefer the Envoy out of all of the GMT360 platform mates... that and the TrailBlazer SS.

[P71_CrownVic]

Still all about the used or dying-platform market, huh... :lol:

 

Nope...just good product.

 

But personally, I prefer the Envoy out of all of the GMT360 platform mates... that and the TrailBlazer SS.

 

Yeah, I second that on the TB SS. A wicked fast SUV that can actually tow something. The Jeep is faster, but utterly worthless. It can only tow 3500 pounds. Actually any of the short wheelbase GMT360s with the 5.3 would be fine. Great engine.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Nope...just good product.

 

Except for those interiors... my gosh...

 

Yeah, I second that on the TB SS. A wicked fast SUV that can actually tow something. The Jeep is faster, but utterly worthless. It can only tow 3500 pounds. Actually any of the short wheelbase GMT360s with the 5.3 would be fine. Great engine.

 

Definitely a true SS. :yup: Looks like the only Chevy SS vehicles after '09 will be the Cobalt, HHR, Impala, and the Camaro.

[Mark8LSC CE0464]

The author was just stating the obvious, vehicles with 17/24 mpg have little consumer appeal in a $4+ gallon USA.

 

Man, you are so brain dead. I can't fit 7 people in my Focus. I can't fit 7 people in my Lincoln. I can't fit seven people in my Sport Trac. Will you STOP being a complete idiot and realize that GAS PRICES DO NOT MATTER to those who have seven people to move around. Stop crying like a little wuss. I don't like the gas prices either. Did I bitch? No, the dem's don't care. I went down to the dealer and wrote a check for a Focus. I can get groceries and go to the movies in that and save my Lincoln for highway drives and my Sport Trac for towing.

 

Now please do us a favor and don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

 

VW diesel, VW 10,000 MPG, blah, blah blah...

 

You really do get old fast!

[TStag]

The basic message in the article is right. No matter how good the Flex or cars like it are right now it's become more of a niche product than a mainstream one. Which is tragic. But look at the sales data in general. It's really bad in the USA and it's not very good in Europe now. It's a struggle for everyone.

 

The big question is how long will this go on? Are we looking at a short recession, a fairly bad one or a really bad one? I read to articles recently which have made me nervous. The first one was by someone called William Ress Mogg in the Times. He said that he believed we are heading into a depression like the one in the 30's. His logic was straightforward. He argued that back in the 30's at the start of the depression there was a stock market crash, but the depression was defined as such by it's length, 10 years in total. He went on to argue that the real problem is that Banks are so hard up they may not want to lend to one another for many years. If banks won't lend money to one another then people can't get Mortgages and can't buy property. Even worse we are seeing run away inflation like in the 70's when we had the Oil crisis. That lasted a decade. He went on to talk about globalisation and how economies were having to reallign themselves and how this realignment was creating additional strains. Now I could put this down to one old man who's claiming he's been there and done that. But consider the words of Richard Branson who said the other day that a "perfect storm was brewing" pointing to exactly the same issues. Virgin are busy raising lots and lots of cash to buy failing companies in the airline industry. They are predicting really tough times ahead and they intend to make some money out of this.

 

Now I for one don't believe we are looking at a new depression. For one thing I can't bare to believe it. But no one should expect this crisis to be over quickly least of all GM and Ford.

[P71_CrownVic]

Except for those interiors... my gosh...

 

Definatley their weak point...but the Buick is MUCH, MUCH better than the others. "Silent" is a word that comes to mind. The problem with the Rainier is that in one area(top of dash) you have very high quality, soft touch materials, and then, right next to it, you have materials that would be at home in the Tata Nano. But, that is only one of two complaintes I have with the car. That other is the lack of a 4WD switch and 4 low. It is RWD (the way it should be) until slip is detected, then, the G80 locks up and the center diff locks sending power to the front wheels.

 

 

 

Definitely a true SS. :yup: Looks like the only Chevy SS vehicles after '09 will be the Cobalt, HHR, Impala, and the Camaro.

 

Yeah...too bad.

 

 

Man, you are so brain dead. I can't fit 7 people in my Focus. I can't fit 7 people in my Lincoln. I can't fit seven people in my Sport Trac. Will you STOP being a complete idiot and realize that GAS PRICES DO NOT MATTER to those who have seven people to move around. Stop crying like a little wuss. I don't like the gas prices either. Did I bitch? No, the dem's don't care. I went down to the dealer and wrote a check for a Focus. I can get groceries and go to the movies in that and save my Lincoln for highway drives and my Sport Trac for towing.

 

Now please do us a favor and don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

 

VW diesel, VW 10,000 MPG, blah, blah blah...

 

You really do get old fast!

 

So, how long until you break even in fuel savings with the Fukkas? And do you really think that there are going to be 100,000 people each year that carry seven passengers on a regular basis?

Edited July 14, 2008 by P71_CrownVic

[Deanh]

[

 

 

 

actually ...FINALLY heard an ad where Ford actually MENTIONED a competitor AND derailed the image a little...ad was for a Focus, and they mentioned it would take 12YEARS......12years for the Prius to make up the "advantages".....

Edited July 14, 2008 by Deanh

[Michael Reynolds]

Yup they've been airing that commercial for a while.

 

And how many people fit in a Rainer again?

[Deanh]

Yup they've been airing that commercial for a while.

 

And how many people fit in a Rainer again?

and what mileage?...is it a diesel...can it brakestand.....and can it tow 10000lbs.....0-60...what does it weigh, is it a fat pig....skidpad.....

Edited July 14, 2008 by Deanh

[Mark8LSC CE0464]

Definatley their weak point...but the Buick is MUCH, MUCH better than the others. "Silent" is a word that comes to mind. The problem with the Rainier is that in one area(top of dash) you have very high quality, soft touch materials, and then, right next to it, you have materials that would be at home in the Tata Nano. But, that is only one of two complaintes I have with the car. That other is the lack of a 4WD switch and 4 low. It is RWD (the way it should be) until slip is detected, then, the G80 locks up and the center diff locks sending power to the front wheels.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah...too bad.

 

 

 

 

So, how long until you break even in fuel savings with the Fukkas? And do you really think that there are going to be 100,000 people each year that carry seven passengers on a regular basis?

 

It's not just people, it's gear. Actually, every regular customer I have drives a seven passenger vehicle at least (actually that is too small, most are a 15 passenger van). You can't stuff a gig's worth of gear into the back of a rice burner. Break even? Guess it depends on where gas goes. Doesn't matter, write the check and done with it! Money is only something you need if you don't die tomorrow and I can't take it with me! Besides, the focus is actually a great car despite what those who don't own one say.... Don't get me wrong I love big cars, I have an MN12 myself. I just drive too much in the city to deal with the mileage headache of 10 MPG when I don't usually carry a ton of gear or passengers.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Mark8LSC CE0464

[papilgee4evaeva]

Finally sat in a Flex today (Limited FWD, loaded).

 

I didn't get to drive it, but I sat pretty much everywhere. It's definitely gonna be a good cruiser, with the rather comfortable seats.

 

And (in response to the article) so what if it's a niche product? It fills a need.

[P71_CrownVic]

And how many people fit in a Rainer again?

 

Why? Do you have trouble counting?

[NickF1011]

So, how long until you break even in fuel savings with the Fukkas? And do you really think that there are going to be 100,000 people each year that carry seven passengers on a regular basis?

 

There doesn't need to be 100,000 people who carry 7 people on a regular basis. They just need to carry them on a regular enough basis that they'll want a 7-passenger vehicle. And being that most people can't afford to buy a 7-passenger vehicle AND a fuel-efficient car to cruise around in when they don't have 7 passengers, the Flex is a good alternative. It can haul 7 people and offer somewhat decent fuel economy.

 

Still can't believe the Flex FWD matches my Mazda6's EPA ratings.

[P71_CrownVic]

And being that most people can't afford to buy a 7-passenger vehicle AND a fuel-efficient car to cruise around in when they don't have 7 passengers, the Flex is a good alternative. It can haul 7 people and offer somewhat decent fuel economy.

 

So does everything else in the segment.

[NickF1011]

So does everything else in the segment.

 

I already posted several vehicles "in the segment" that get significantly worse fuel economy. The only vehicles really managing the numbers the Flex does are minivans.

[FLLMTR]

GM claims to have the highest highway MPG for 8 passenger vehicles.

 

http://www.buick.com/fuelEconomy/enclave/

http://www.gmc.com/fuel-economy/index.jsp?cmp=MPG_tile

 

But that doesn't seem to matter much as the sales of the Lambda's are sliding. The Acadiaforum.net posted sales numbers that show a significant decrease in Acadia sales. Only 4,197 Acadia's were delivered in June. 1,625 Outlook's and 2,986 Enclaves were delivered.

 

Even the Honda Pilot only sold 7,282 units in June which includes the 2009 model that rolled out in May. These numbers also include 2008 models which were being sold w/$7,000+ discounts below MSRP.

 

The sales of the benchmark Odyssey dropped 8.6% to 12,602 units in June.

 

No matter how anyone spins it, sales of 7 and 8 passeger vehicles are going to continue to slide so long as gas stays above $4.

 

That is why I see people with 2 or 3 kids packing them into Altimas, Fits, and even the Focus.

Edited July 15, 2008 by FLLMTR