FordBuyer Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Ford's biggest weakness in my view is lack of engines. While it has gotten better, it still lags and in my view Ford has been slow to expand the 3.5L into other vehicles. Ford traditionally has always offered about three different engine choices on most of its product line. But in last 10 years or so you get one usually and that is it. Many of the engines are past their prime and new ones have been coming very slowly. Ford is finally starting to get their act together with Escape/Mariner, but still behind with Fusion which finally will be solved next year. But many other products there is dearth of engine choices. With Focus you get ONE. With Taurus you get ONE. Taurus X ONE. Flex ONE. Edge ONE. MKS ONE. MKZ ONE. MKX ONE. I know more engines are coming and there will be more choice, but for now there is no choice and I don't think that helps sales. Time and time again Ford offers new product with ONE engine and long wait for other engine options. The new 3.5L has been out for about 36 months and still there is a shortage of them for other product offerings. There is even speculation about whether the 3.5 or 3.7L variation will make it to the 2010 Mustang in time or be delayed another year. Until Ford can be Ford of old and have lots of engine options, I don't think there will be any Ford comeback anytime soon. Again, more waiting. Ford got so far behind it's taking Ford years and years to catch up. In fact, in my view, Ford needs to catchup with the engine problem before it even brings new products to market. I sure hope the new Lincoln MKT comes to market with more than one engine option. Not another year wait for Ecoboost option. Knowing Ford, there probably will be another year wait after MKT hits Dealers. That has to hurt sales. This same, old story gets tiresome decade after decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 12, 2008 Author Share Posted September 12, 2008 Sorry, I put it in the wrong area. To make it competition area, GM offers three different engine choices on Impala and I believe three on Malibu. Not to diss Ford,but Ford needst to get its engine choices up to competitions level some year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 " Ford's Biggest Weakness " Perception of quality and value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theripper Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 i'd say the engine thing is an issue. perception of quality, yeah that's a good one too. my take? conservatism. they are conservative to a fault, never taking the lead and sticking with the same old path too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomaro Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 " Ford's Biggest Weakness " Perception of quality and value. I'll 2nd that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Lets look at some of Fords competition...Honda and Toyota and see where they are Fusion gets an I4 and a V6 Accord gets an I4 and a V6 Camry gets an I4 and a V6 ********************** Taurus gets a V6 Avalon gets a V6 No Honda that compares... ********************** Escape gets an I4 and a V6 Rav4 gets an I4 and a V6 CR-V gets an I4 and a....um nope...no V6 ********************* I understand what you are saying but that is not the only problem at Ford....Ford needs to get that message out about the companies quality and many other positive improvements to the entire lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardmayo Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 " Ford's Biggest Weakness " Perception of quality and value. Couldn't agree more. Amongst my pier group (30 somethings, college educated, young kids, middle class), you should see the blank stares I get when I suggest Ford products. If it doesn't have a Honda, Toyota, Subaru or Mazda badge on it, it doesn't seem to even come into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobu37 Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 (edited) Lets look at some of Fords competition...Honda and Toyota and see where they are Fusion gets an I4 and a V6 Accord gets an I4 and a V6 Camry gets an I4 and a V6 ********************** Taurus gets a V6 Avalon gets a V6 No Honda that compares... ********************** Escape gets an I4 and a V6 Rav4 gets an I4 and a V6 CR-V gets an I4 and a....um nope...no V6 ********************* I understand what you are saying but that is not the only problem at Ford....Ford needs to get that message out about the companies quality and many other positive improvements to the entire lineup. Good point, Tornado. Comparing Ford's approach to engine options to GM's is not a fair comparison. Ford is moving towards a reduction in options that reduces the cost to assemble by reducing inventory and more uniform assembly procedures which can reduce qaulity issues. GM is still in denial. They are behind everybody is using commonsense to make decisions about production. They are still living with the attitude that they have been the #1 auto manufacturer for 80 years so they must be doing something right. This point of view was demonstrated as recently as last month when GM reverted back to buying marketshare at the sake of profits. If Ford is wrong for not offering more engine options are they also wrong for not having an additional 4 redundant divisions? The little extra expenses here and there caused by trying to differrentiate between models is probably one of the reasons that GM has had negative operational cashflow for well over a year while Ford had been very cashflow positve on the operational front up until last quarter. When criticizing Ford for not mimicing another automaker, perhaps one should choose anyone but GM in the comparison. And yes I agree, Ford's biggest weakness is perception in marketplace. I'm hoping Farley can do something but I'm still waiting. The right things are being done on factory floor. Now Farley needs to find a way to breakthrough some of the stupidity that exists amongst the blind loyalists. Edited September 12, 2008 by jobu37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Comparing Ford's approach to engine options to GM's is not a fair comparison. exactly. GM aren't the onese taking market share from Ford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Couldn't agree more. Amongst my pier group (30 somethings, college educated, young kids, middle class), you should see the blank stares I get when I suggest Ford products. If it doesn't have a Honda, Toyota, Subaru or Mazda badge on it, it doesn't seem to even come into consideration. I agree, that's the general perception.....but among "car people" the word is already getting out....that Ford is on a different level than other American manufacturers. GM has more exciting vehicles (Corvette, Malbu, some Cadillacs) and Chrysler is in trouble. Ford is a little boring, but safe, well built and dependable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 (edited) I agree, that's the general perception.....but among "car people" the word is already getting out....that Ford is on a different level than other American manufacturers. GM has more exciting vehicles (Corvette, Malbu, some Cadillacs) and Chrysler is in trouble. Ford is a little boring, but safe, well built and dependable. Hope this gets to the non-car types. Ford did it before, "Quality is Job One". Actually worked. And not only were Ford's perceived as being better built than others, they actually were. However, it took close to ten years before the public accepted this truth. I remeber a quote in HOTROD magazine. "Ford has been screwing their cars together tighter than anyone else for more than a decade". It was in reference to why the Mustang was crushing the Camaro/Firebird year to year in sales. Edited September 13, 2008 by Hemiman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefstang Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Ford's quality has come around, and believe it or not, so has the perception. I used to have to tell my customers about Consumer Reports recommending almost all the Ford vehicles. Now THEY tell ME. :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Couldn't agree more. Amongst my pier group (30 somethings, college educated, young kids, middle class), you should see the blank stares I get when I suggest Ford products. If it doesn't have a Honda, Toyota, Subaru or Mazda badge on it, it doesn't seem to even come into consideration. I have the same problem in my peer group (40-somethings) when I get the "blank stares" I suggest Mazda and when they later tell me what a great little car (GLC anyone??) Mazda is....I chuckle to myself knowing that they just came into the Ford empire...granted...via the back door...but they are here. My parents love their new Mazda5 they bought to replace the Camry they got after moms '96 Sable finally needed replacement....their senior friends all had Toyotas so., they decided to try one.....guess what.....nothing special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 I think Ford's biggest weakness is fuel economy and their selection of fuel effecient products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
156n3rd Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 American cars have been put in a negative light for so long, American consumers just don't care. I own an imported car and an American car. During my years of driving and ownership since I obtained my license (1969), I have owned about 35 vehicles. I drove many GM cars because at the time they were cheap and plentiful. I owned a few imports, 2 VW'' and a Nissan. I also owned Fords and when I bought my forst Taurus, I was hooked for quite a while. Anyway, my point is that I have changed my buying philosophy. I now buy what I need to get the job done. I'm not talking trucks or any other specific model. I am also not talking about any Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
156n3rd Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 American cars have been put in a negative light for so long, American consumers just don't care. I own an imported car and an American car. During my years of driving and ownership since I obtained my license (1969), I have owned about 35 vehicles. I drove many GM cars because at the time they were cheap and plentiful. I owned a few imports, 2 VW'' and a Nissan. I also owned Fords and when I bought my forst Taurus, I was hooked for quite a while. Anyway, my point is that I have changed my buying philosophy. I now buy what I need to get the job done. I'm not talking trucks or any other specific model. I am also not talking about any SPECIFIC BRAND EITHER. I buy according to my needs and what I can afford. Right now, we have many models to choose from, thankfully. Ford's styling is somewhat reserved since the 96' Taurus design. Shocking that they didn't fix it back then. Comparing Ford against GM and Chrysler is hard because GM is a ponderous giant going in all directions and Chrysler is barely afloat. Ford seems to be maintaining a direction that may be the best in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Ford Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 (edited) I'd be more concerned about the quality of the enignes than the number of engine options. What good do the 3 engine options do the Impala? The V6s are competitive only in fuel economy, and the V8 isn't a volume engine. The rest of the car isn't anything special either. Edited September 14, 2008 by V8 Ford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 With Focus you get ONE. With Taurus you get ONE. Taurus X ONE. Flex ONE. Edge ONE. MKS ONE. MKZ ONE. MKX ONE. Of those 8 that you named there, 6 of them will likely be recieving EcoBoost engines and 1 of them (TX) is being discontinued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Poor fuel unefficent SUV & Pick-ups and lack of diesel cars Stateside peak oil will finish off those that can't be bothered to change just look at the state of airlines Boeing can't build dreamliners fast enough to meet demand, Bland boring dull car styling in Europe, Ford is very much still a loved brand in Europe, a lot folk would buy Ford that don't own them at the moment if Ford could be bothered drop boring styling, if Ford can't be bothered why should the buyer be bothered to buy Ford, the new Fiesta does go some way to improving matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenCaylor Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 During my years of driving and ownership since I obtained my license (1969), I have owned about 35 vehicles. We're about the same age. I started driving in 1970. 35 vehicles! Wow! I'm on my 4th (65 Mustang, 83 Lynx RS, 87 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and 2000 Mustang). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 We're about the same age. I started driving in 1970. 35 vehicles! Wow! I'm on my 4th (65 Mustang, 83 Lynx RS, 87 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and 2000 Mustang). You drove a 65 Mustang until '83? How did that happen? I'm 29 and I'm on my 7th vehicle 1996 Ford Taurus 2000 Lincoln LS 2002 Lincoln LS 2005 Lincoln LS 2005 Lincoln Aviator 2007 Lincoln MKZ 2007 Lincoln MKX Coming soon... 2009 Lincoln MKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenCaylor Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 You drove a 65 Mustang until '83? How did that happen? I'm 29 and I'm on my 7th vehicle 1996 Ford Taurus 2000 Lincoln LS 2002 Lincoln LS 2005 Lincoln LS 2005 Lincoln Aviator 2007 Lincoln MKZ 2007 Lincoln MKX Coming soon... 2009 Lincoln MKS I was 10 when we ordered the 65 Mustang the day after Labor Day in 64 (we wanted factory A/C). It originally was my mothers car. When I entered high school in 68, my parents told me that if I graduated with honors, they would give me the car. In 72, there were 12 of us that graduated through the honors program. I was #12. They handed me the keys after the ceremony. Sadly, the car was stolen and stripped in 83. My Lynx RS (aka Escort GT) came with the Michelin TRX wheel/tire combo. After 4 years, it needed new tires. That size wasn't available. Good excuse to get a new car. When I sold my 87 T-Bird, it had 250000 miles. The drivetrain was still perfect, but it was all the other gizmos and gadgets that were nickel and diming me to death. My current 2000 Mustang only has a bit over 83000 trouble free miles. It will be nine years old this October 16th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
156n3rd Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 (edited) We're about the same age. I started driving in 1970. 35 vehicles! Wow! I'm on my 4th (65 Mustang, 83 Lynx RS, 87 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and 2000 Mustang). Back in the 70's in Pennsylvania, cars had to be inspected every 6 months. I would buy a cheap beast and run it as long as I could, and dump it for another. Variety is the spice of life. My favorites: 66 Dodge Dart Custom 270-90,000 miles 80 Chevy Citation-V-6 3spd. + OD. 4-dr fun-traded at 81,000 ($600.00 carb needed) 87 Taurus GL sdean-135,000 miles 92 Taurus L wagon-147,000 miles (wrecked) 02 PTCruiser -98,300 and going strong Worst: 76 Buick Century Special-3 main bearing 3800, junk 78 Olds Cutlass- worthless in wet conditions 81 Pontiac Phoenix- total p.o.s. Weirdest: 66 Rambler Marlin-327/275hp: rubbery old crate Alternate fave: 85 Honda Shadow 500 in red-one of the most reliable vehicles I've owned Edited September 16, 2008 by 156n3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Some interesting lists there. Since this is an engine related thread, I will just list some engines that I have had in cars. 223 I6 (Ford) 195.6 I6 (AMC) 170 I6 (Ford) 232 I6 (AMC) 2.3 l I4 (Ford) 352 V8 (Ford) 289 V8 (Ford) 302 V8 351M V8 351W V8 429 V8 (Ford) 3.0 l V6 (Ford) 3.0 l V6 (GM) 305 V8 (GM) 229 V6 (GM) 3.1 l V6 (GM) In the past Ford did have many engine choices, and today the choices are slim, but they do have very competent (if not exciting) engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 (edited) Ford's biggest weakness in my view is lack of engines. Huh....my answer woulda been their incompetence in developing proven sellers other than the F-150 while dumping billions into proven flops. Edited September 22, 2008 by Armada Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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