RichardJensen Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Nice. Of course those are cumulative numbers...... Toyota didn't spend $395M in US charitable activity in 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The world you are in no longer exists. He could care less about the U.S. Funny thing is, he fights for it. What will he do when the Government can't afford to pay his military pension and benefits after he retires, because there isn't enough tax revenue coming in to support them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 You know, banks create jobs too...... In fact the relationship between direct and indirect employees probably dwarfs that of any other industry. BTW, the 'fat cats' at banks bailed out by the government are done in that industry. If you ran WaMu, guess what? You'd best figure out what your second favorite industry is, because you'll never work in banking again. Banks do not really create that many jobs, they loan money to businesses like the auto companies that do create jobs... Maybe so, but it is a good old boys network and they WILL show up on the board of some other company or two or three.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Banks do not really create that many jobs, they loan money to businesses like the auto companies that do create jobs... Exactly. Without money lenders, economic growth moves at a snail's pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 He could care less about the U.S. Funny thing is, he fights for it. What will he do when the Government can't afford to pay his military pension and benefits after he retires, because there isn't enough tax revenue coming in to support them? The Domestics have ALWAYS met their obligations and they are cosiderable......paying property taxes that helps build schools and pay teacher salaries, pay out pension checks every month to hudreds of thousands of retirees, pay for health care for its employees, dependants, and their retirees and on and on. I would think that is worthy enough to care about. Again, if GM can't make it when auto sales go back up to more historically, normal levels with U.S. population of over 330 million, then let it go. But not in a recession with unprecedented frozen credit market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I would think that is worthy enough to care about. As do I, but look at his posts. He doesn't care. He thinks because he is a Government employee that the failure of one or all of the Big 3 will not affect him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyalbutconcerned Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Detroit built what most customers wanted to buy fo decades - gas guzzling trucks and SUVs. They were the most pofitable and kept the factories going. Consumers voted with their dollars then and got what they wanted. If oil did not get to $147/barrel then this trend would continue. They would be selling more profitable cars and trucks and more people would be employed and still paying thei mortgages and going to doctors and dentists anmd buying TVs at Ciruit City, etc., if gas prices did not get out of hand. If they had shifted to low marging cars years ago, they would not be as profitable and profitable, of course, consumers would have been forced to adapt. If this was such a bad business decision, the smart business men at Toyota and Nissan and to a lesser extent Honda, would not have gotten int the truck business. They all got into the SUV business for sure. All I am saying, don't leave the escalation of gas prices out of the discussion. Furthermore, don't leave the true cause of the increase in gas price out. Neither should you leave the fat profits the oil companies made for selling just about the same amount of fuel to us. Oh by the way, weren't those CEOs hailed as geniuses on Wall Street as they walked away with fat bonuses. Look at the current White House and the cabnet, all Wall Street, oil and defense industry types. Look at who stand to benefit most from what went on the last 6 or so years? Look who got bailed out first - the people trading paper. If we let the auto industry fail, there will still be cars available to purchase. But who will buy the steel, aluminum, glass from US Steel, Alcoa, PPG and the like? Oh by the way, It may get to a point where the Asians can't produce enough to meet the demand and there goes prices. Do you think the CEO of Toyota was just acting dumb when he implied that it is bette for the imports if the domestics do well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 As do I, but look at his posts. He doesn't care. He thinks because he is a Government employee that the failure of one or all of the Big 3 will not affect him. That's the new American attitude.....if I don't think it will affect me, then I don't give a shit. Me, Me, me. Survival of the fittest and everyone else be damned. Or they bring up crazy analogies that show complete ignorance like airlines went bankrupt and still survived, therefore GM can. Like Granholm stated today, the airline customers are buying plane tickets, not airplanes. GM is selling $30,000 vehicles that need mucho financing, not plane tickets for $199. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxcomet Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Yepper, I just love the airlines comparison. There's an industry you just LOVE to partake in. Leg room sufficient for 9 year olds, attendants who may well have trained under Sadaam Hussein, you pay extra for anything and everything besides your purse and wallet, and an on time rating equaled only by congress' approval ratings. Yep, they came through their financial crisis just fine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxrv Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Toyota USA Investment In Billions $ Ford's US production levels were over 90% of their sales levels here in the last year. Toyota's were barely more than 50%. If GM or Ford go down and Toyota gains, there is little reason to build more products here. Honda recently asked the Japanese government to intervene to lower the Yen. Toyota announced that they lost money on their NA operations in the last quarter. If they were the geniuses that some think they are, they wouldn't be making mistakes that have put them where they are. Watch them dump on US workers if the weak economy continues to struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Totally wrong on how I want the situation to pan out. I have invested money in both GM and Ford. My point about this is: There is nothing that shows if we give GM billions, they will survive more than 18 months in their current MO . In fact, the opposite is true. For the past several years when GM brings out a new product, their market share still falls. Does GM have a product coming out within the next year that will save them? The Volt will be too expensive and too narrow of a customer base. How many sales will the new Camero generate? How about the new Cruise? Will people trade in their imports for it? I don't think so. What will happen, is the sales will MOSTLY come from other GM product costumers. What I believe is the Feds should give no money until GM cuts overhead enough to be in the black within 18 months. GM hasn't even suggested one major change in their sales strategy. It sure looks to me that the tax paying people will be throwing money away. If GM would cut overhead enough to be profitable, then I would support some R&D Fed money to all domestic car companies. The current sales model that GM is using isn't getting it done. Can anyone show me a positive trend for GM? At this point I believe that GM and Chrysler will have to "merge" with an overseas company within the next 24 months. And I sure don't want the bail out money go and benefit an outside source. No matter what happens, I think the truck line in all three will remain and may even become independent. Edited November 13, 2008 by mettech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 How about Honda Accords with rusted out floor boards, defective gas tanks, exhaust systems that cost $300, and brakes twice as expensive as domestics? Accords weren't the only Japanese junk that turned into Freddie Flinstonemobiles after only 5-7 years and suffered from horrible skin cancer making vehicle totally useless. So why pick on the domestics? Everyone made junk back then. Funny how I've driven Ford's all my life, I'm 60 years old, and never had a bad one that caused me much trouble. None of them rusted out either. I drive a Ford now, no rust, no rattles, and it's 6 years old. The '83 Mustang 5.0 I had was sold in 2000 17 years later with no rust and I got $3,500 for it. Ran like a charm with only a new clutch and that was it. Also had a Bronco ll, put 250,000 miles on it with same motor, and sold it 11 years later for $2,000. Amen Brother! I just never got the "all they made was junk" excuse! I just turned 50, I have never owned a foreign car, and I have never owned a bad car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 Totally wrong on how I want the situation to pan out. I have invested money in both GM and Ford. My point about this is: There is nothing that shows if we give GM billions, they will survive more than 18 months in their current . In fact, the opposite is true. For the past several years when GM brings out a new product, their market share still falls. Does GM have a product coming out within the next year that will save them? The Volt will be too expensive and too narrow of a customer base. How many sales will the new Camero generate? How about the new Cruise? Will people trade in their imports for it? I don't think so. What will happen, is the sales will MOSTLY come from other GM product costumers. What I believe is the Feds should give no money until GM cuts overhead enough to be in the black within 18 months. GM hasn't even suggested one major change in their sales strategy. It sure looks to me that the tax paying people will be throwing money away. If GM would cut overhead enough to be profitable, then I would support some R&D Fed money to all domestic car companies. The current sales model that GM is using isn't getting it done. Can anyone show me a positive trend for GM? At this point I believe that GM and Chrysler will have to "merge" with an overseas company within the next 24 months. And I sure don't want the bail out money go and benefit an outside source. No matter what happens, I think the truck line in all three will remain and may even become independent. You do have a point, I admit. I have said for years that GM has too many divisions and GMC is redundant. For whatever reason, GM ignores or will not do anything about it. I realize how expensive it was to get rid of Olds, but GM is going to have to downsize big time to survive in this new world. But right now we just have to bite the bullet and wait for more nornal times with credit fairly free flowing again and more upbeat outlook. This economy right now cann't withstand a hit like that. No way. Get through the storm first. Why worry if GM can't pay it back? Paulson can't even figure out where to put $700 billion and the money to AIG is going down a rathole. At least a loan to GM would do some good and keep lots of people working and spending including retirees and their loved ones. Good bang for the buck. It would also keep many states afloat financially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94bronco Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I am in favor of the bailout but only with certain strings attached, One of those would be the removal of Rick Wagoner with someone competent put in his place. I really see absolutely no point in giving money with the current way things are run there as it would evaporate into thin air the second Wagoner got his hands on it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project-Fairmont Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Somewhere along the line, it became "in" to hate America. Americans are embarrased to be Americans. Many of them feel that we somehow deserve to have nothing but bad things happen to us................. since we have done so many bad things in the past. I'm trying to remember when it was good to be patriotic. I guess it was after 9/11. However, everyone has forgotten about that. That was just a short lived documentary series, that was cancelled. The war in Iraq isn't about removing a tyrant, and keeping the crazies fighting our military "over there." It is about collateral damage, and how much pain "we" have inflicted.................. completely ignoring the wholesale slaughter that was going on before. However, what strikes me the most, is that this apathy or disgust of America seems to be in line with the general rise in selfishness of the population. Since the majority of the population has never known real sacrifice, or true "bad times," it seems as if they feel entitled to have everything. This "everything" needs to be given to them, because they deserve it. There should be no pain, and no sacrifice. We don't invest anymore............... we day trade. We don't try to make the future for our children better than ours, because, frankly................. what does that do for me today??? It doesn't take a community to raise a child................. it takes daycare, school, and a multitude of activities............... so the kids don't realize that mommy and daddy are so busy at the spa, or whatever other useless endeavor, that they don't spend time with their children................ or even care that they don't. You don't "help thy neighbor," ............... hell, you don't even know your neighbor. It disgusts me, to see this around me every single day. The sad reality is that the people didn't vote for the Presidential candidate that would help "the country,"................. they voted for the one who promised to give them the most for free. What will change this............... I have no idea. All I can do is sit here and try to raise my son to be the best human being that he can be. At this point in time, that is my contribution to the world. Well Said - To bad its so true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 As do I, but look at his posts. He doesn't care. He thinks because he is a Government employee that the failure of one or all of the Big 3 will not affect him. But you know as well as I and most other rational thinking people around here know that government employees are nothing but bottom feeders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 But you know as well as I and most other rational thinking people around here know that government employees are nothing but bottom feeders. That's funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 That's funny. get ready for square steering wheels soon as pelosi and company get control...its only used for me from here on out (domestics) or foreign stuff....i cannot imagine how piss poor product will be once the gubment get involved..i can imagine beyond square streering wheels design cues where the car is more aerdynamic in reverse then forward..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 get ready for square steering wheels soon as pelosi and company get control...its only used for me from here on out (domestics) or foreign stuff....i cannot imagine how piss poor product will be once the gubment get involved..i can imagine beyond square streering wheels design cues where the car is more aerdynamic in reverse then forward..... Fuck that! I'm getting ready for a massive demolition derby pretty soon. And guess what you Toyota Prius, Honda Fit Shit and smart car driving faggots. You're in the crosshairs! Because if you think people won't be pissed off about the Domestics going out of business. You ain't seen nothin' about what could possibly happen on the highways. Don't think it can't happen. Guess again! I think I'll re-inforce the inner steel with armor plating on my old cars and weld more iron and steel to the bumpers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefstang Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Somewhere along the line, it became "in" to hate America. Americans are embarrased to be Americans. Many of them feel that we somehow deserve to have nothing but bad things happen to us................. since we have done so many bad things in the past. I'm trying to remember when it was good to be patriotic. I guess it was after 9/11. However, everyone has forgotten about that. That was just a short lived documentary series, that was cancelled. The war in Iraq isn't about removing a tyrant, and keeping the crazies fighting our military "over there." It is about collateral damage, and how much pain "we" have inflicted.................. completely ignoring the wholesale slaughter that was going on before. However, what strikes me the most, is that this apathy or disgust of America seems to be in line with the general rise in selfishness of the population. Since the majority of the population has never known real sacrifice, or true "bad times," it seems as if they feel entitled to have everything. This "everything" needs to be given to them, because they deserve it. There should be no pain, and no sacrifice. We don't invest anymore............... we day trade. We don't try to make the future for our children better than ours, because, frankly................. what does that do for me today??? It doesn't take a community to raise a child................. it takes daycare, school, and a multitude of activities............... so the kids don't realize that mommy and daddy are so busy at the spa, or whatever other useless endeavor, that they don't spend time with their children................ or even care that they don't. You don't "help thy neighbor," ............... hell, you don't even know your neighbor. It disgusts me, to see this around me every single day. The sad reality is that the people didn't vote for the Presidential candidate that would help "the country,"................. they voted for the one who promised to give them the most for free. What will change this............... I have no idea. All I can do is sit here and try to raise my son to be the best human being that he can be. At this point in time, that is my contribution to the world. One of the best posts I've ever read here. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefstang Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Fuck that! I'm getting ready for a massive demolition derby pretty soon. And guess what you Toyota Prius, Honda Fit Shit and smart car driving faggots. You're in the crosshairs! Because if you think people won't be pissed off about the Domestics going out of business. You ain't seen nothin' about what could possibly happen on the highways. Don't think it can't happen. Guess again! I think I'll re-inforce the inner steel with armor plating on my old cars and weld more iron and steel to the bumpers. LMFAO!! Now the Panthers are sounding like a great idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Fuck that! I'm getting ready for a massive demolition derby pretty soon. And guess what you Toyota Prius, Honda Fit Shit and smart car driving faggots. You're in the crosshairs! Because if you think people won't be pissed off about the Domestics going out of business. You ain't seen nothin' about what could possibly happen on the highways. Don't think it can't happen. Guess again! I think I'll re-inforce the inner steel with armor plating on my old cars and weld more iron and steel to the bumpers. Why... that sounds like a threat And I say you are all talk. :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundassault Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Bull Some company will buy them out before they close the production line. And then they will cut 4-6 brands. Everything outside of Chevy, Cadillac, Buick (for China), JEEP, Ford and Lincoln should be closed this year. You make it sound like no one will buy another car in the USA, The group that will be affected most is the UAW. period. The Big 3 refused to change to fuel efficient cars when they had a chance. Now fuck'em. And that means I'll lose a few $K. And fuck me too. The Big 3 arrogances is they only reason I need to see them not to get aid from the Feds. Wow, there is so much arrogance in this post, I dont even know where to begin........ Remember a little company that GM started called GEO? It was all small fuel efficient cars that nobody wanted? Hmmmm. Americans want what they want and it better be now..... No one talks about the CAFE standards that the auto companies have to pour billions into and never ask Uncle Sam for a penny no one talks about how 1 in 3 patents in the US are owned by the auto companies give to American technology No one talks about how americans are forced to build our cars in the countries where we sell them or in others we are flat out no allowed to sell there and yet this country has an open market for anyone No one talks about the countless jobs, the winning of the world wars, the highway system, the saving of Toyota in the 50's, the middle class, the hay-day of being an American............gosh I could go on.......I hope you eat every word you say, because like the old saying goes, whats good for GM is good for America. Now listen, if GM goes down, they are going to take the country with them because they are the heart of the manufacturing sector......you know, the one that developing countries try to get everytime they get a little money. And don't forget OPEC, they will tumble, along with Russia....then comes the BRIC countries.......GM might be captain of a rickety ship, but by GOD will they take every soul aboard down with them...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 14, 2008 Author Share Posted November 14, 2008 Why... that sounds like a threat And I say you are all talk. :shades: You think three millon or more people could get thrown out of work and there will be no violence? Think again. You can't destroy the lower and middle class and expect no violence. It could get very ugly. You think three million will go home, wait for bank to kick them out of their house, and then live in their car and not feel bitter. America is armed to the teeth as it is. Then couple that with anyone invested in market being wiped out, and you have powder keg environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) I am in favor of the bailout but only with certain strings attached, One of those would be the removal of Rick Wagoner with someone competent put in his place. I really see absolutely no point in giving money with the current way things are run there as it would evaporate into thin air the second Wagoner got his hands on it anyway. I agree with something along these lines. Any form of bailout should as you say have strings attached. To qualify for bailout money, GM should show that it is willing to change....something which the current company heads, etc. don't seem to be willing to do. Wagoner himself has said he won't resign. If he is (at least partially) responsible for the position GM is in now, I think he should be released. It also kinda makes me wonder what the board is thinking as well....that they'd let the company get into this situation. Edited November 17, 2008 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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