lfeg Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Silicone Valley - Isn't that somewhere near Hollywood? :P:D I kid - I know you meant that little strip of overpriced real estate between San Jose and San Francisco that is inundated with Stanford grads. (and refugees from MA) Oh, I thought you meant the anatomical feature there for a moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 don't know if this is a newsflash or not...but we are instituting a program here for cop cars and the like to keep tham on the road. Since the crown Vic will be hasta la vista in a couple here is the synopsis. instead of paying 25k or so for a new Crown Vic, said vehicle comes here and for 12k is basically re-conditioned to new. new Engine, drivetrain, brakes shocks...basically EVERYTHING, even computer is re-flashed. There has been a pretty good response from the target audience...ESPECIALLY in light of budget cuts...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 don't know if this is a newsflash or not...but we are instituting a program here for cop cars and the like to keep tham on the road. Since the crown Vic will be hasta la vista in a couple here is the synopsis. instead of paying 25k or so for a new Crown Vic, said vehicle comes here and for 12k is basically re-conditioned to new. new Engine, drivetrain, brakes shocks...basically EVERYTHING, even computer is re-flashed. There has been a pretty good response from the target audience...ESPECIALLY in light of budget cuts...... Is that a Ford program, or did you guys come up with it? Also, what about the interior----I'd have to guess the back seat gets pretty randy after a few years of hauling drunks, druggies, and the generally uncooperative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Is that a Ford program, or did you guys come up with it? Also, what about the interior----I'd have to guess the back seat gets pretty randy after a few years of hauling drunks, druggies, and the generally uncooperative. I assume so, but most of the back seats here are heavy duty HOSEABLE fibreglass....for obvious reasons....why? do your perps demand comfort? And its a dealership program...we have what is called a 20 group where 20 ( obvious no? ) owners get together and brainstorm...a dealer back east apparently was pretty sucessful with the program...comes with a 3 yr 100 k warranty apparently.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You mean his Park Lane, don't you? Park Lane used from 1968-1974 Marquis used from 1974-1980. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Bring back McGarretts Mercury Marquis that was one kool cop car. What about all the LTD's from all the shows back then as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I assume so, but most of the back seats here are heavy duty HOSEABLE fibreglass....for obvious reasons Hmmm. I thought the back seat was that taxi-grade vinyl...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Hmmm. I thought the back seat was that taxi-grade vinyl...... not down here, fibreglass, inoperable locks/ windows/ handles.....42 inch plazma is a nice touch though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I rode a remarkably clean taxi from LaGuardia when I went to New York. I got in on the driver's side, but when the guy took the exit out of the parking lot at about 50mph, I ended up on the passenger's side---right up against the door. I swear that vinyl must be coated in teflon. That's what I mean about taxi-grade vinyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Park Lane used from 1968-1974 Marquis used from 1974-1980. The Parklane was awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The Park Lane was the cool one. It had style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Hmmm. I thought the back seat was that taxi-grade vinyl...... Had a courtesy ride home from an accident scene a few years back in the back of police CV. Had to be in the back since the front pass seat was taken up by the computer gear and such. Rear seat was a "3 bucket" style in hard ABS with the big handle shoulder belts. Not all that bad for a 20 minute ride. It is designed for low maintenance / quick clean up. Around here the departments keep the units very clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Carbon Motors on Autoline Detroit. I learned the business case for Carbon motors. The Captital cost of a Cop car is very small. Compared to the cost of adding Police Equipment and Service and Repair. Carbon Motors could charge double the cost of a Crown Vic, the E7 would be cheaper in the long run by minimizing the cost of adding Police Equipment, lasting longer, having cheaper repair and service cost and being more fuel efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 Carbon Motors on Autoline Detroit. Interesting interview to say the least. I have major doubts whether police departments around the country will buy a product from an unknown company that may not be around in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Interesting interview to say the least. I have major doubts whether police departments around the country will buy a product from an unknown company that may not be around in a few years. Maybe Carbon needs to be bought out by one of the big military suppliers? Maybe it can become a Joint venture between Boeing and Ford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Carbon Motors could charge double the cost of a Crown Vic, the E7 would be cheaper in the long run by minimizing the cost of adding Police Equipment, lasting longer, having cheaper repair and service cost and being more fuel efficient. Snort. This thing is never going to see the light of day. Primarily because of the false economy of buying a car & equipment packaged together, apart from that, promises of cheaper repair/service cost are based on a fallacious idea that a brand new engine and platform with a narrow narrow narrow narrow (there are 4,000 Ford dealerships) parts network is going to be able to compete successfully against a company like Ford. Finally, the promise of fuel efficiency is predicated on getting the C7's turbo diesel certified. While gov't fleets are exempt from CAFE, they aren't exempt from emissions regs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 The capital cost of ANY vehicle is only a small portion of its total cost. Fuel, routine maintenance, preventive maintenance, insurance all add up very fast. And much of the equipment used on police vehicles is reused. Radios, data links, video camerad, computer gear usually are transferred as vehicles are replaced, as this equipment is on a different replacement schedule. 10 to 15 year old radio gear is not uncommon. Also, some departments have local VoEd schools do some of the equipment fitment and paint/decal application. I do not know of any department that buys new cars fitted with all new equipment at once. Carbon Motors will have to make their case to City Councils, Mayors, Boards of Commissioners, etc. on the cost issue, as they issue the POs, not the PDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) I would think that Carbon could build cars in very low volume while they prove their product. It would take them years. Edited February 16, 2009 by battyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Snort. This thing is never going to see the light of day. Primarily because of the false economy of buying a car & equipment packaged together, apart from that, promises of cheaper repair/service cost are based on a fallacious idea that a brand new engine and platform with a narrow narrow narrow narrow (there are 4,000 Ford dealerships) parts network is going to be able to compete successfully against a company like Ford. Finally, the promise of fuel efficiency is predicated on getting the C7's turbo diesel certified. While gov't fleets are exempt from CAFE, they aren't exempt from emissions regs. Agree. Also, all-new body construction with an aluminum space frame. And....it's cheaper because it uses extrusions!! Well, not really. Aluminum is expensive, period -- about $800-1,000 per car. And extrusions are "sloppy"; i.e., you can't get the dimensional tolerances you need for a quality build. From what Carbon has said, the body construction on this car most reminds me most of the Pontiac Fiero which used a "mill and drill" manufacturing technique to get dimensional accuracy. Using molded in color for the body panels would eliminate an expensive paint shop, but those colors tend to fade over time. I keep thinking about the development costs on an all-new platform, including severe duty durability and high-speed crash capability. Even Tesla used an existing Lotus platform get their product on the road, so they had something to start with. But all new??? That would involve thousands of man hours and computer hours. I really don't see that Carbon can possibly have a viable business plan. It looks like Carbon believe they are going to convince governmental agencies to invest more now in the hopes of saving in the future. This would be a tough sell any time. But in this period of financial crisis, good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) And, frankly, the styling is far too aggressive for most decision makers. The 'urban combat zone' styling is not exactly going to win friends among community leaders or, IMO, most conscientious police officers. http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/default.asp?item=36 Note this: Agencies need a systematic means of incorporating community policing elements into their recruitment, selection, and hiring processes. Job descriptions should recognize community policing and problem-solving responsibilities and encourage the recruitment of officers who have a "spirit of service," instead of only a "spirit of adventure." A community policing agency also has to thoughtfully examine where it is looking for recruits, whom its is recruiting and hiring, and what is being tested. Some community policing agencies also look for involvement of the community in this process through the identification of competencies and participation in review boards. The C7 presents police officers as combat personnel on hostile ground. That's a BIG no-no with most PDs (BTW, you can get ballistic inserts, from the factory, on the Crown Vic) Edited February 16, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Carbon Motors on Autoline Detroit. I learned the business case for Carbon motors. The Captital cost of a Cop car is very small. Compared to the cost of adding Police Equipment and Service and Repair. Carbon Motors could charge double the cost of a Crown Vic, the E7 would be cheaper in the long run by minimizing the cost of adding Police Equipment, lasting longer, having cheaper repair and service cost and being more fuel efficient. Great reservations on this point. Crown Victoria Cop car = $20K purchase price + $55K of transferable police equipment. Carbon Concepts E7 = $100K dedicated police equipment car package returned to single source supplier. PDs will lose big time with carbon motors..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Great reservations on this point.Crown Victoria Cop car = $20K purchase price + $55K of transferable police equipment. Carbon Concepts E7 = $100K dedicated police equipment car package returned to single source supplier. PDs will lose big time with carbon motors..... I think the thing that Carbon is looking at doing is having a leasing deal where they get the car back after x amount of years and rebuild it and recycle it to give back to the same PD or another. Its more or less a set car without any product improvement (besides making it cheaper for Carbon Motors or fixing issues that crop up with it in use)...go though a couple cycles of that and it could be a viable business model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I think the thing that Carbon is looking at doing is having a leasing deal where they get the car back after x amount of years and rebuild it and recycle it to give back to the same PD or another. Its more or less a set car without any product improvement (besides making it cheaper for Carbon Motors or fixing issues that crop up with it in use)...go though a couple cycles of that and it could be a viable business model This looks more expensive that what current PDs do. Sure they buy and sell panthers but the keep and change over electrical gear to new vehicles. In essence it costs less than $20K to change over a car, I can't see Carbon Systems matching that as most government bean counters hatchet every inch of profit out of Ford sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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