Farley says Ford needs new Cop Car

[mackinaw]

From this week's Automotive News, article by Rick Kranz. Jim Farley was interviewed about Ford's need for a new police car. "The likely solution is a front-drive, unibody vehicle platform with all-wheel-drive adaptability, said Jim Farley, group vice president of marketing and communications. Several vehicles are under review, but he would not say whether the re-engineered, re-styled Taurus is one of them."

 

You can see the headline and a paragraph on the Automotive News website, but you'll need a subscription to view it in detail:

 

http://www.autonews.com/

[lfeg]

More writing on the wall. Expect to see more over the next year or so, as the end of the CV gets nearer.

[Blueblood]

Wow, maybe they can save money building every Ford vehicle off of one chassis, we can have a D3 Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Explorer, Mustang, F-150, CV, etc..

 

That should make the bean counters happy!

 

Ask cops how they feel about the FWD Impalas..

 

Looks like hiring a Toyota person wasn't the wisest decision after all...

 

Ford might as well be owned by the feds with this type of boring appliance hysteria they are high on.. Maybe they will call it the Pelosi??

 

This should make RJ proud..

[suv_guy_19]

We need to get a smiley that spits while its yelling. I think that would better represent the above.

 

Edit: I hope the idea works out.

Edited January 19, 2009 by suv_guy_19

[Blueblood]

We need to get a smiley that spits while its yelling. I think that would better represent the above.

 

Edit: I hope the idea works out.

 

Your pathetic, childish insults aside, just how do you think offering police departments heavy, expensive, gas guzzling AWD large cars will go over? Cops need room, power, durability, and they need it to be as cheap as possible with city budgets running on empty.

 

Cops beat the crap out of their vehicles, they routinely hop curbs, bottom out at high speed chasing people, and all sorts of other abuse, good luck doing that with a FWD car. The other problem is the fact that AWD adds weight and cost, and gets worse fuel mileage than FWD or RWD, but is necessary in a FWD car, so it has no benefits over a tried and true, simple to maintain RWD vehicle.

 

What Farley is saying, is that Ford is going to eventually cancel the CV altogether and try to force pd's into buying the Taurus, which is just insanity, one size does not fit all, I foresee a lot more Dodge Charger black and white's in the future.

 

Now let's see if you can respond like an adult.

[suv_guy_19]

I foresee a lot more Dodge Charger black and white's in the future.

 

 

If you think that the Charger will stand up to more abuse than the Taurus you are sorely mistaken. The LX cars are not durable in any way, shape, or form.

[LSFan00]

When the police forces stop buying Dodge's (as in; when Chrysler finally gives up on the Charger in 6 months, or when the world finally gives up on Chrysler, whichever), and Ford stops offering the CV, there just won't be any large RWD American sedans offered for this job.

 

By default, Ford could conceptually win, as the largest incumbent supplier. Say what you want, but it's Ford's business to lose, and there's not a ton of competition outside of Tahoe's and Chargers.

[Blueblood]

If you think that the Charger will stand up to more abuse than the Taurus you are sorely mistaken. The LX cars are not durable in any way, shape, or form.

 

How is that? I've heard they aren't as tough as the CV's, no doubt due to them being BOF, but how can a FWD car be tougher than a RWD one? I can only imagine what curb hopping does to CV joints and transaxles.. :o :o

 

And what is going to power them? Expensive ecoboost engines?

[NickF1011]

How is that? I've heard they aren't as tough as the CV's, no doubt due to them being BOF, but how can a FWD car be tougher than a RWD one? I can only imagine what curb hopping does to CV joints and transaxles.. :o :o

 

And what is going to power them? Expensive ecoboost engines?

 

Well, what inherently makes a FWD "weaker" than a RWD? CV joints and transaxles can be beefed up for severe service duty, so that issue is resolved. What exactly by itself makes RWD better? Now Panther vs D3 for police duty I can see your argument. But just a plain generic "FWD vs RWD" battle royale for which is superior just doesn't cut the mustard.

[Blueblood]

Well, what inherently makes a FWD "weaker" than a RWD? CV joints and transaxles can be beefed up for severe service duty, so that issue is resolved.

 

Have you looked at Fords own ratings for their tranny's? Look at what can be put through a RWD transmission in the Super Duty, now look at the Taurus tranny, it had to be "beefed up" just to handle 350 ft. lbs. of torque. Imagine that tranny and front drive gear holding up to over a hundred thousand miles severe duty. I've never seen any FWD cop cars in So Cal, except for maybe a community services officer or something along those lines. There must be a reason. I keep seeing more and more Chargers though, they have some undercovers roaming the streets of Hollywood now.

 

What exactly by itself makes RWD better? Now Panther vs D3 for police duty I can see your argument. But just a plain generic "FWD vs RWD" battle royale for which is superior just doesn't cut the mustard.

 

What doesn't? It's better all around, especially at the things needed in a cop car like durability, ease and cost of repairs, simplicity, handling, cost, fuel economy (over needed AWD).

 

And to add to it, what's the point? Why abandon yet another segment that Ford dominates? Why not just finally give the Vics the update they deserve? Throw in the 3 valve 4.6 and 6 speed tranny and they would get even better mileage.

[Mark B. Morrow]

The cops in Pittsburgh have been using FWD cars since the '80s. They started with Olds 88s and Pontiac Bonnevilles in 1985. The Impala has been the standard for the past 8 years. They have a few CVs acquired as part of a department merger. FWD isn't a problem, it's a benefit with our hilly terrain and winter weather.

 

I see no reason why a Taurus based Police Interceptor would be anything less than a success. It has a bigger interior and trunk than the CV or the Impala

[battyr]

The CV has many advantages as a cop car. The fact that we don't know the future of the CV 5 years from now and the competition is selling FWD or Unitbody cop cars, Ford needs to prove they can make and sell the best Cop cars and Taxis whether it is RWD, FWD, or Unitbody.

 

I would say sell both the CV and Taurus Cop car. Make both of them the best. Let the Cops decide what they want.

Edited January 19, 2009 by battyr

[Blueblood]

The cops in Pittsburgh have been using FWD cars since the '80s. They started with Olds 88s and Pontiac Bonnevilles in 1985. The Impala has been the standard for the past 8 years. They have a few CVs acquired as part of a department merger. FWD isn't a problem, it's a benefit with our hilly terrain and winter weather.

 

I see no reason why a Taurus based Police Interceptor would be anything less than a success. It has a bigger interior and trunk than the CV or the Impala

 

I've read a lot of this kind of stuff over the years..

 

"Our local PD is changing to Chargers. They've used Crown Vics for ages, but the V6 Charger does the same job for less gas money yet is still RWD. The unmarked units (for the detectives and honchos) were bought earlier this year, and I'm told we can expect the first of the marked ones before Thanksgiving.

 

They did try Impalas briefly, but after the first couple of transmissions went *kaboom* and another officer went over a parking lot curb at 30 MPH and did $2,500 worth of damage, the cars were gone surprisingly quickly."

 

 

Besides, we have traction control now, and it's sunny and dry 335 days a year here in so Cal, AWD would just be useless weight out here..

[mustang_sallad]

Montreal has switched to pretty much all Impalas now. There are still some CVs on the road, but all the new ones are impalas. Personally, I wish Ford would update the CV with a better drivetrain, maybe including a stop-start set up, Cops idle soooo much. Besides I don't think the huge centre console of the Taurus would work really well for them.

[silvrsvt]

another officer went over a parking lot curb at 30 MPH and did $2,500 worth of damage, the cars were gone surprisingly quickly."

 

I find that very hard to believe that ANY car-based Police can drive over a curb and not do damage like that to itself....RWD isn't an excuse to drive like a moron.

[NickF1011]

And to add to it, what's the point? Why abandon yet another segment that Ford dominates? Why not just finally give the Vics the update they deserve? Throw in the 3 valve 4.6 and 6 speed tranny and they would get even better mileage.

 

Why abandon it? Because there's NO money in it. Yes, the Panther makes money NOW. Why? Because it has had so few updates that the investments in it are far outweighed by the small market that it still dominates. Invest in significant updates and those profit margins are gone. The retail side of something based on the Panther is basically coming down to nothing, so there is no incentive to redesign it for that purpose either.

 

It's just a lose-lose for Ford unless they come up with a way to cheaply develop GRWD, which doesn't seem likely.

[suv_guy_19]

I can only imagine what curb hopping does to CV joints and transaxles.. :o :o

 

 

Having an LX car that goes out of alignment on a whim and burns through tie rod ends like there's no tomorrow, I can only imagine what curb hopping would do to a Charger. Look up alignment issues for the cars. Then maybe you'll understand.

[FoMoCobra]

ahem... (clears throat)

 

Um... I've been watching this FWD vs. AWD vs. RWD battle patiently from the sidelines and thought I would step in here.

I agree 100% with Blueblood (hears the outrage in the crowd)

 

FWD cop cars just wont cut it in 70% of the nation with dry roads. Its been proven over and over that RWD, specifically solid axle CV and Caprice cars are the most durable for police duty. They are essentially trucks in the shape of cars.

 

I'll never forget an episode of Myth Busters when they attempted to break away the solid axle from under a CV cop car like they do in the movies. They looped iron braided cables around the live axle and tied it to a pole. When they slammed the gas and at 50MPH when they ran out of rope, the iron cables snapped and caused no damage to the CV whatsoever. You would never have the same outcome in an FWD, AWD or a Charger.

 

The argument that Ford does not have the resources to build an RWD platform is understandable. But I'm not going to sit here and listen to folks say Ford can survive without RWD products or that both FWD and RWD have the same durability. Once an FWD car gets above 200 hp/ 200 ft lbs of torque it looses its composure and starts causing problems.

 

Just my thoughts.

[NickF1011]

ahem... (clears throat)

 

Um... I've been watching this FWD vs. AWD vs. RWD battle patiently from the sidelines and thought I would step in here.

I agree 100% with Blueblood (hears the outrage in the crowd)

 

FWD cop cars just wont cut it in 70% of the nation with dry roads. Its been proven over and over that RWD, specifically solid axle CV and Caprice cars are the most durable for police duty. They are essentially trucks in the shape of cars.

 

I'll never forget an episode of Myth Busters when they attempted to break away the solid axle from under a CV cop car like they do in the movies. They looped iron braided cables around the live axle and tied it to a pole. When they slammed the gas and at 50MPH when they ran out of rope, the iron cables snapped and caused no damage to the CV whatsoever. You would never have the same outcome in an FWD, AWD or a Charger.

 

The argument that Ford does not have the resources to build an RWD platform is understandable. But I'm not going to sit here and listen to folks say Ford can survive without RWD products or that both FWD and RWD have the same durability. Once an FWD car gets above 200 hp/ 200 ft lbs of torque it looses its composure and starts causing problems.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Ford can survive just fine without RWD products, as long as the RWD products you are referring to are fullsize sedans. Of course I'm not petitioning to get rid of RWD pickups or the Mustang, but take a look around all of the other major automakers. They either don't have fullsize RWD sedans at all or the ones they do have are limited in volume and to luxury cars. Ford simply does not need the police market to survive. It's nice that they do have it for now as long as the CV is the cash cow that it supposedly is, but that gravy train won't last forever and there's really no rational reason for Ford to chase after it ith a new RWD vehicle if there can't be a case made for its existence on the retail side of the equation also.

Edited January 19, 2009 by NickF1011

[chiefstang]

Your pathetic, childish insults aside, just how do you think offering police departments heavy, expensive, gas guzzling AWD large cars will go over? Cops need room, power, durability, and they need it to be as cheap as possible with city budgets running on empty.

 

Umm, the Taurus gets better mileage than the CV, costs less money, has more room, the same power, and better reliability. Now I understand durability is different than reliability, but I'm sure Ford can beef up the Taurus in those area for an Interceptor. Both cars have their advantages, but it seems that the Taurus has a few more than the CV. Also, I've been in a 2008 Taurus at 100 mph, and the car was just fine. Pretty damned solid, really. Not as floaty as some CVs I've been in.

 

And what is going to power them? Expensive ecoboost engines?

 

Some of them, sure. The high speed pursuit vehicles. Those aside, I'm sure the 3.5's 265 hp will do just as well as the CV's 260 hp...

[Sixt9coug]

How is that? I've heard they aren't as tough as the CV's, no doubt due to them being BOF, but how can a FWD car be tougher than a RWD one? I can only imagine what curb hopping does to CV joints and transaxles.. :o :o

 

And what is going to power them? Expensive ecoboost engines?

 

 

uh hem.... doesnt the IRS equipped Charger have CV joints as well? on the rear?

[joihan777]

As long as the panthers make a profit, why not let the customers decide? Perhaps Ford should

make available a municipal version of the Taurus along with the CV?

 

If they like the Taurus better, that's great. Let the panthers exist as long as they make a profit.

 

WHo knows, in 2-3 years, Ford may be in a batter position to adequately address a new RWD platform,

or at least give the panthers a much deserved update (including an AWD package for the CV).

[NickF1011]

As long as the panthers make a profit, why not let the customers decide? Perhaps Ford should

make available a municipal version of the Taurus along with the CV?

 

If they like the Taurus better, that's great. Let the panthers exist as long as they make a profit.

 

WHo knows, in 2-3 years, Ford may be in a batter position to adequately address a new RWD platform,

or at least give the panthers a much deserved update (including an AWD package for the CV).

 

The Panthers simply can't "exist forever" unless they receive updates, which the government mandates and Ford doesn't want to pay for. If Ford's situation improves and they change their minds on it, that's all great in my book. Ford hasn't signalled any such change is anywhere on the horizon though.

[jtstakelin]

But the question is.....Do you really want the taurus name to be drug to the ground? Look what happened when the taurus was the rental fleet queen. The last thing you want to see happen to the new taurus is to become a non seller because of the fact that police departments are using them too.

[NickF1011]

But the question is.....Do you really want the taurus name to be drug to the ground? Look what happened when the taurus was the rental fleet queen. The last thing you want to see happen to the new taurus is to become a non seller because of the fact that police departments are using them too.

 

I don't think police use has any real ill-effect on brand image. Being seen row after row in rental lots and decked out in yellow paint with taxi signs on the roof don't help a whole lot though.