RichardJensen Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Mmmmm hmmmmmm. It amuses me that the panther devotees refuse to admit that any other car could be as well built as the panthers. It also amuses me that RWD devotees will continually assert that FWD cars can't stand up to serious abuse. In fact none of them have pounded heck out of a D3 vehicle, and all of them are ignoring the Escape Hybrid's track record as a cab. But, then again, it's just another day at BON. RWD junkies making up arguments out of whole cloth and distorting comparisons to support a market that they can't stand and don't participate in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 FWD can sand up to abuse. Just that no one has justified putting the cost and weight into building one. What's the point in building a FWD car with the weight and length of a RWD car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Come to think of it, I think the Taurus is heavier than a Charger. It likely is more durable than a Charger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Doesn't the CV weigh less than a Taurus at this point ? Or maybe even close..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Mmmmm hmmmmmm. It amuses me that the panther devotees refuse to admit that any other car could be as well built as the panthers. It also amuses me that RWD devotees will continually assert that FWD cars can't stand up to serious abuse. Assumptions and lies.. In fact none of them have pounded heck out of a D3 vehicle, and all of them are ignoring the Escape Hybrid's track record as a cab. More assumptions. But, then again, it's just another day at BON. RWD junkies making up arguments out of whole cloth and distorting comparisons to support a market that they can't stand and don't participate in. And even more assumptions and lies. But then, what would this place be without the daily bullshit from the D3 mafia... How does this sound? You hate all RWD cars because you don't know how to drive in snow, so you think every vehicle on earth should be a FWD crackerbox. Scary thing is, that's probably pretty close to reality!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Jeep Grand Cherokee...for an SUV that is, they have been able to make a case for uni-body usage. Ford could do a unibody RWD/AWD vehicle, but I cant imagine the weight they would have to add to it to make it robust enough. As it is, 4400lbs for an Edge is a bit out of hand.... They use Falcons in Australia and they seem to hold up well. I think the CV weighs less than a Taurus which is pretty funny when you think about it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Basically Ford is saying, "We won't be selling anything in the future that works as well as what you currently have, but we hope you have no choice but to buy our future products anyways. We're stuck with this platform we've dumped billions into, so take it or leave it." It's kind of what they have told a lot of their old customers over the years, which is why they have lost market share for 13 straight years. Chrysler will probably go away, so look for a lot of Tahoes and Impalas in police use. Yup, no choice from Ford, it just doesn't make sense to build huge and heavy FWD vehicles that require powerful engines to move them, that then can't handle the power due to being FWD, so they need to put AWD in them which adds even more weight and makes them even less fuel efficient. It's a band aid on a compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray101988 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Yup, no choice from Ford, it just doesn't make sense to build huge and heavy FWD vehicles that require powerful engines to move them, that then can't handle the power due to being FWD, so they need to put AWD in them which adds even more weight and makes them even less fuel efficient. It's a band aid on a compromise. I thought the new Taurus was going to get decent gas mileage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I thought the new Taurus was going to get decent gas mileage? Decent? Yes, I think the MKS is rated at 16/24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Taurus will come it at around 18/30. No question of that I don't think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 What is the d3 mafia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Ford Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Decent? Yes, I think the MKS is rated at 16/24 With the 3.7. The Mazda 6 gets 25MPG HWY with the 3.7. The Taurus will use the 3.5 and probably be lighter than the Lincoln (less sound deadening, etc. It should get comparable numbers to the current Taurus (28), unless it has porked up quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Ford Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 What is the d3 mafia? We don't support old platforms once the replacement has come out. D3-2 FTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 The Taurus Interceptor: an SHO with vinyl seats and steel wheels. The State forces will love 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Ford Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I'd actually consider buying a used cop car if that were the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 So far, no one has brought up the one major point as to why many police departments favor RWD squads, specifically the Crown Vic. Has nothing to do with durability or performance. It is driver training. Since FWD and RWD cars handle differently, particularly in extreme circumstances, no department wants a mix of FWD and RWD. Not good for the officer to have to think about what type of car he is driving when he is in a chase at 80 m.p.h.. Since the demise of the 9C1 Caprice, the Crown Vic. was 'it' until the Charger came out. Now, if Ford introduces an FWD squad, what will probably happen is your major city PD's will start retraining officers and replacing cars as quick as they can, and the Charger could be left out. Reason is the fleet buyers will prefer FWD because there will be more choices, and thus more attractive prices. So, if a PD goes FWD, they will be able to choose between the Impala and Taurus. If they stay RWD the Charger is the only choice. Fleet buyers don't like that. As for durability, yes, an FWD car could sustain more expensive damage if piled into a curb at high speed, but the botom line is such a move will probably stop the squad if it is FWD or RWD. Can't get far on a busted ball joint or bent spindle, period. Another factor is that PD's are far more careful about how they handle high speed pursuits than they have been in the past. Heroics behind the wheel tend to get officers and bystanders killed. A 6 cylinder Impala can go fast enough (top speed is actually a hair faster than a Crown Vic. anyway) for any situation an officer is likely to find him/herself in. I believe Elwood Blues said it best- "Ya can't outrun a Motorola". One last point- if you happen across a guy driving a municipal or fleet vehicle, and he gives you some line about how his department buys only brand X or Y because it's tougher or faster, 99 times out of 100 it's major B.S.. Fleets buy on purchase as the number 1 factor if the vehicle meets specifications. In the case of the Crown Vic., until lately it was often the only car that would meet a PD's specifications (which usually called for FWD because of driver training). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) UK use FWD cars police cars to catch low lifes like the Penguin, the Joker & Bernard Madoff so why can't you Stateside Edited January 20, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Assumptions and lies.. More assumptions. And even more assumptions and lies. But then, what would this place be without the daily bullshit from the D3 mafia... How does this sound? You hate all RWD cars because you don't know how to drive in snow, so you think every vehicle on earth should be a FWD crackerbox. Scary thing is, that's probably pretty close to reality!! ...whoever thought that P71 could be banished......he lives on!!!!! Edited January 20, 2009 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Right on the money Blueblood, yet again. As far as this thread topics goes, once the Panther goes away, Tahoes and Chargers for PDs everywhere! FWD under heavy duty use break early & often, and are costly and involved to fix. FWD FTL. Watch and see. I love all the conjecture that updating the topside of the Panther would be this monumental mega dollar adventure, IT'S DAMNED NEAR ALL PARTS BIN STUFF people. Much moreso than the umptenth overhaul of the latest D3 this week. What is the d3 mafia? The folks that believe there the money pit D3 can be used successfully under seemingly any and every Ford vehicle even though it has not sold successfully under one yet, even with multiple failures to say otherwise. :cheerleader: I'll shut up now, you may now resume your regularly scheduled Panther hating. Edited January 20, 2009 by Armada Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Right on the money Blueblood, yet again. As far as this thread topics goes, once the Panther goes away, Tahoes and Chargers for PDs everywhere! FWD under heavy duty use break early & often, and are costly and involved to fix. FWD FTL. Watch and see. If the Charger still exists in another 3-4 years....and Tahoes cost far too much to use as regular squad cars. That's just not gonna happen. I love all the conjecture that updating the topside of the Panther would be this monumental mega dollar adventure, IT'S DAMNED NEAR ALL PARTS BIN STUFF people. Much moreso than the umptenth overhaul of the latest D3 this week. The D3's have seen a regular update schedule just like any other vehicle should be receiving in the Ford lineup. So the '10 Taurus was pushed forward ONE whole year. Wowzers!! And you nor I have any idea how much a THOROUGH redesign of the Panthers would cost. Parts bin stuff? WTF? There is new sheet metal sitting in the Ford parts bin to update the Panthers? Well hell, why didn't someone mention this before? :rolleyes: The folks that believe there the money pit D3 can be used successfully under seemingly any and every Ford vehicle even though it has not sold successfully under one yet, even with multiple failures to say otherwise. :cheerleader: Another thing you nor I have any idea about: How profitable or not profitable the D3 actually is. Until either of us know, how can you refer to it as a money pit? What it comes down to is this: This entire argument is about the stupidest thing on the planet and has been rehashed 16,000 times on BON over the past 5 years. The Panthers are dying. That's life. Move on. NOTHING will save them. Not fleet sales. Not a redesign. Not every police department in the country ordering 100,000 of them next week. It's just NOT part of the future plans at Ford. Debating this anymore is freaking stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 What it comes down to is this: This entire argument is about the stupidest thing on the planet and has been rehashed 16,000 times on BON over the past 5 years. The Panthers are dying. That's life. Move on. NOTHING will save them. Not fleet sales. Not a redesign. Not every police department in the country ordering 100,000 of them next week. It's just NOT part of the future plans at Ford. Debating this anymore is freaking stupid. Now that is something I would love to see. If just each state placed an order like that, 5,000,000 cars. What would the wait be? How far behind the CAFE 8 ball would that put Ford? Remember that CAFE is still in effect, and that Pelosi & Co. want to ratchet it up. That means for every CV sold there must be fewer Mustang V8s sold, or many more Focus sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Now that is something I would love to see. If just each state placed an order like that, 5,000,000 cars. What would the wait be? How far behind the CAFE 8 ball would that put Ford? Remember that CAFE is still in effect, and that Pelosi & Co. want to ratchet it up. That means for every CV sold there must be fewer Mustang V8s sold, or many more Focus sold. I believe vehicles sold to government agencies are excluded from CAFE calculations. Could be wrong though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I believe vehicles sold to government agencies are excluded from CAFE calculations. Could be wrong though... They are excluded. Cop car volume is around 50,000 per year. Taxi volume is around 5,000 per year, but that is before any of potential changes to NY for fuel economy. Dodge is the new CV. Aging platform with no updates in site because the mother ship has left. And lots of volume to give. So they will be well placed to move in and pick up a much bigger share -- say half. That would leave Ford with around 25k. Not enough to run even a fraction of one shift. Might be worth it for a D3 derivative but certainly not a case for keeping Panther around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Even though they're excluded, I think there will be a big push to buy more fuel efficient vehicles. 4,100 lb V8 powered CVs may be out of flavor with green awareness governments. Edited January 20, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Even though they're excluded, I think there will be a big push to buy more fuel efficient vehicles.4,100 lb V8 powered CVs may be out of flavor with green awareness governments. You are correct. There is a relatively small percentage of cop cars that are intended for Interceptor duty. And I think Dodge is taking over that market and can probably do so at a lower cost than any twin turbo Taurus. Municipalities are looking for more fuel-efficient alternatives to set the standard. Dodge has an advantage here as they have a V6 available and the servicing garage can handle both the V6 and V8 with a lot of commonality. But we might see a move to smaller, more fuel efficient "people carriers" (hopefully made by Ford) for local duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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