Farley says Ford needs new Cop Car

[Deanh]

When durabilty comes in to play any fuel milage gains go out the window pretty damn quick. This is exactly what the EPS found with the Impalas any savings in fuel milage were more than lost due to increased repair costs. Also the cost of repairing the rather simple Tahoes both in parts and labour is condierably lower than the much more complex FWD's or AWD's there is more to the equation than simple fule economy.

the FWD Taurus will be fine for many Police departments but it will not be able to out right replace the CV's for all. Many are going to look else where. Nothern Regions espcailly do no like FWD for hyway work as they are not as stable or controlable on icy roads. The added cost and complexity of AWD will also be a non starter for many as well.

 

Ford boned this one with the Expedition they geared for the soccer mom and not for use as a real truck,and by doing so they handicapped it's potenetial market the logical choice for PD's would have been to move to the Expedtion but it is totally unsuitable for comercial severe service.

 

And do not count on it. As the Tahoes gain market share in this use others will follow. The RCMP now exclusivly use GMC SUV's, with the addtion of the Tahoe to the fleet as a the main unit it will eventually lead them to drop the Super Duty's as well and use the GMC P/U's. Losing the Vic with out a suitable replacement is going to affect sales of other models as well. The EPS currently uses primarly Ford equipment as does the city it's self as they are bulk buying from one manufactuere, When the Vic is gone and they move to the Tahoe for in city crusiers (the vic is by far the biggest yearly purchased vehicle) they will eventually move thier purchases to GMC to keep the volume discounts. Yes the Panthers do not generate a pile of sales but losing them with out a viable replacement is going lose most of those sales and affect the sales of other models as well.

 

We will be buying a new Limited AWD Taurus X with in the week. The Mazda 6 wagon is turning out to be a POS plus it is totally tits ass useless in the snow. The car has had numerous issues over the past months and they are comming faster and more frequntly now. The transaxle is on it's way the water pump is starting to fail cronic exhaust manifold leaks body intergrity issues etc etc and this with only 43K miles. And it is not like I drove the ass off it as it is the wifes car and she babies it. The 6 was an ok car but it is not a long term keeper. Buy it put 40K on it and dump it.

 

The Taurus X got the nod due to 10K off MRSP off the hop $8500 from Ford and anouther $1500 from the dealer with out even asking, and I figure a can chew anouther 3K+ off the price they are pratically begging us to buy one and ours would be a factory order to boot. We could not get that good a deal on a Tahoe thats about the only reason we are not buying one . Ford Canada Is Fire saleing the Taurus X obviusly they are doing every thing they can to dump them. We are basically going to by be able buy a new one for almost what a low mile (under 8k miles) used 08's are going for. And the Taurus depreicates even faster. These things depreciate faster than the Panthers. I can not buy a used 08 GM for what an 08 Taurus goes for.

 

Time will tell if the Taurus X is going to hold up as well as every one here clamis it should. The Mazda 6 was supposed to be the be all to end all and it has been less than stellar to say the least.

 

If any one thinks the Taurus is going to enter Serveice Service duty with out some major issues they are in for a big suprise.

 

 

Matthew

matt, you are quite welcome to come and veiw the Black and White Expedition SSV's being delivered out back to several cities.....good luck on LOCKING in todays rebates and incentives on a factory order which will take approx 8 weeks.....last I looked ( 21 years worth ) incentives can only be locked in on RS date, which in turn a car can only be R'sed when status is SHIPPED.....also, several Taurus's have been requested by the Police Depts as undercover vehicles...can we say "tryout"?

Edited January 21, 2009 by Deanh

[BORG]

I would wait to see what Ford produces before jumping to conclusions. It sounds like a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the idea of dropping the CV, not the concept of a replacement. Time marches on and Ford provides class leading products, deal with it! If you want Ford to secure a market segment and maintain it profitably, then let them sort it out!

Edited January 21, 2009 by BORG

[Deanh]

Very true on the Charger, but IF its still here, it will get bought before a FWD Taurus.

 

I've also heard talk from a couple of fleets folks over at CVN that GM dropped prices on the Tahoes when gas shot up and brought them more in line with pricing with the CVs, and when Ford is dumb enough to axe the CV, watch GM get REAL competitive on the price with an unlocked market because they still kick themselves in the butt giftwrapping that market in 1996 with the end of the B-body, and have aimlessly been trying to get it back since 2000. Example: circa 2000 "The new 2000 police package Impala, the cruiser inspired by the 1996 9C1 Caprice" was stamped on their 2000 Wimpala ordering guide. Since nobody bought that turd, now they've brought out a pursuit rated SUV aka Tahoe that actually has some teeth.

 

 

 

 

All they have done is overhaul the D3 since the FAIL Hundread came out. But OK, that was all "scheduled".

 

Yes largely parts bin stuff. We are not talking a industry mind blowing ground up overhauling here. Door handles, some front and rear fascia updates, would not take a whole lot to bring the Panther more "current" looking with minimal investment. Now it could get costly with a new dash and if they made any floorpan changes, which there is no reason to do. Now I personally would like to see the gas tank relocated under the trunk like to old B-bodies were, I think it would improve rear end collisions numbers, and rear seat space, but that's just me. That kind of overhaul/update could get costly, but could also be beneficial because I think Ford could get the Panther "CAFE"ed as a light truck since it's platform has more in common with a light truck platform. Dodge managed it with the Magnum.

 

 

 

 

 

I know nonexistent sales for YEARS now plus large annual investment cannot equal anything other than a moneypit.

 

 

 

I also see Harris County dragging the busted Wimpalas to their service center on Atascocita Rd. via wrecker all the time as well. Along with all those WImpalas cycled out way too early and sold through Houston Auto Auction with "frame damage" written on the windshield but no accident/collision damage that you can see.

 

 

 

 

Well said Matthew, on all points. And you hit on a hidden point that gets neglected. These fleets that buy the CVs, also decide "Hey, lets go ahead and get some Rangers or F-150s too while we are placing the order". Kiss those sales goodbye when Ford decides to jump ship on the Panthers then those buyers will go ahead and order some Rams with their PD Chargers and/or Silverados with their PD Tahoes this time instead. Why cut two checks, deal with two vendors when you can get what you need from one? I watched the cities, counties, and municipalities do it here in the late 1990's when everybody switched from GM's Caprice to Ford's CV. City of Houston used to buy a LOT of Cavaliers and Chevy pickups and when they went Ford with the CVs here came the Escorts, Focus', Taurus, Rangers, and F-series as well. It's the residual sales thanks to the CV that really get unacknowledged.

funny how you guys all incinuate Ford should adapt to the PD's to maintain a barely profitable market segment...yes, I said it. BARELY PROFITABLE, if you doubt me prove it....but realize this, unlike you guys I'm quite in line with aquisition prices AND what Ford puts on the table to remain in good faith with Municipalities, Counties and local Govt's ( see a trend there...the sales are purely POLITICAL brown nosing, Ford does them as a FAVOUR basically, the ACTUAL $ made barely justify the CV;s existance)....truth is ...the municipalities are realizing THEY are in fact the ones that need to adapt...and I for one am witnessing it first hand...and this is in a LARGE market, not some baccy chewing Dukes of Hazzard 5 cars every 5 years market that some here keep using as a case study....the ignorance of some of this diatribe is absolutely ASTOUNDING.

[Deanh]

I would wait to see what Ford produces before jumping to conclusions. It sounds like a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the idea of dropping the CV, not the concept of a replacement. Time marches on and Ford provides class leading products, deal with it! If you want Ford to secure a market segment and maintain it profitably, then let them sort it out!

thankyou Borg...hope the common sense written there falls on some eyes and is retained.....Ford is doing themselves no good by CATERING to Govt entities at all, other than brownie points....

[jpd80]

funny how you guys all incinuate Ford should adapt to the PD's to maintain a barely profitable market segment...yes, I said it. BARELY PROFITABLE, if you doubt me prove it....but realize this, unlike you guys I'm quite in line with aquisition prices AND what Ford puts on the table to remain in good faith with Municipalities, Counties and local Govt's ( see a trend there...the sales are purely POLITICAL brown nosing, Ford does them as a FAVOUR basically, the ACTUAL $ made barely justify the CV;s existance)....truth is ...the municipalities are realizing THEY are in fact the ones that need to adapt...and I for one am witnessing it first hand...and this is in a LARGE market, not some baccy chewing Dukes of Hazzard 5 cars every 5 years market that some here keep using as a case study....the ignorance of some of this diatribe is absolutely ASTOUNDING.

What types of vehicles do you see the PDs changing to, FWD/AWD sedans, CUVs, MKT type vehicle?

Is there an opportunity for Ford to use another type of vehicle to better package cabin and PD equipment.

[J-150]

funny how you guys all incinuate Ford should adapt to the PD's to maintain a barely profitable market segment...yes, I said it. BARELY PROFITABLE, if you doubt me prove it....but realize this, unlike you guys I'm quite in line with aquisition prices AND what Ford puts on the table to remain in good faith with Municipalities, Counties and local Govt's ( see a trend there...the sales are purely POLITICAL brown nosing, Ford does them as a FAVOUR basically, the ACTUAL $ made barely justify the CV;s existance)....truth is ...the municipalities are realizing THEY are in fact the ones that need to adapt...and I for one am witnessing it first hand...and this is in a LARGE market, not some baccy chewing Dukes of Hazzard 5 cars every 5 years market that some here keep using as a case study....the ignorance of some of this diatribe is absolutely ASTOUNDING.

 

 

I agree Dean. What makes PDs more special than Hertz or Avis for dumping break-even vehicles?

 

Fleet is fleet.

[Deanh]

What types of vehicles do you see the PDs changing to, FWD/AWD sedans, CUVs, MKT type vehicle?

Is there an opportunity for Ford to use another type of vehicle to better package cabin and PD equipment.

in all sincerity J, my point is who cares....unless there is serious profits and benefits leave the breadcrumbs to the starving let them cater to the niche...if it was worthwhile I would be up in arms...it most definitely IS NOT, and I am exstatic Ford is venturing where the business and product is most beneficial to its OWN needs.....

[Deanh]

I agree Dean. What makes PDs more special than Hertz or Avis for dumping break-even vehicles?

 

Fleet is fleet.

my point EXACTLY...their interest is ONLY in where the least amount of dollars can be spent to satisfy THEIR needs....they don't give a RATS about individual manufacturers ,so why shouldn't Ford think EXACTLY the same way and bend over backwards, make Zippo profit to cater to THEIR special needs....boo hoo! CV and rental ( not necessarily all fleet ) buyers are as loyal as their bank accounts....

Edited January 21, 2009 by Deanh

[jpd80]

in all sincerity J, my point is who cares....unless there is serious profits and benefits leave the breadcrumbs to the starving let them cater to the niche...if it was worthwhile I would be up in arms...it most definitely IS NOT, and I am exstatic Ford is venturing where the business and product is most beneficial to its OWN needs.....

OK, now I understand - a whole plant devoted to mostly "fleet" products, sounds like Atlanta.......

[lfeg]

OK, now I understand - a whole plant devoted to mostly "fleet" products, sounds like Atlanta.......

Correct. Probably less than 10% of the plant output goes to retail customers. The Panther line is so far out of sync with the rest of the North American product it is Ford's orphan. A limited market product that requires its own dedicated facilities with sales that only use less than half of capacity.

[Deanh]

Correct. Probably less than 10% of the plant output goes to retail customers. The Panther line is so far out of sync with the rest of the North American product it is Ford's orphan. A limited market product that requires its own dedicated facilities with sales that only use less than half of capacity.

touche...the ONLY reason it is being built is to appese Govt enterties and garner political brownie points...beleive me. if they could buy their CV's or a suitable product at Wallmart they would....but right now it is specifically Domestic for political reasons...will be interesting to see what happens, doubtful Honda or Toyaote would even glance at the opportunity as it doesn't make a good business plan...ie THERES NO MONEY!

[NickF1011]

I could almost see one of the military subcontractors going into the business of making dedicated police vehicles. After all, they are used to the cut-throat cost-cutting and bidding wars that drive prices into the ground for the government in a lot of cases already, and it's certainly not unprecedented for them to manufacture vehicles. Companies like Oshkosh and AM General have been doing it for some time.

[matthewq4b]

I see your still fighting hard for a car you have never bought.

 

I think that is hilarious.

 

 

 

I guess you think it is funny that ford is lossing sales and long time customers hell that is real riot.

And yes I did buy a GM almost 20 years ago. But there was no point in buyin a new one as it was what I had already owned for the previous almost 2 decades. So Ford lost a sale unlike most former Panther buyers the damage was as not as extnsive as I bought used so the money went to no manufactuere unlike most others that new vehicles from the competion.

Ya that is real riot side splitting humor there.

 

As for the Tarus X hell we could not buy an new GM or CV as either is now sold to the puplic in Canada the only way you can get one is with a fleet purchase.

 

If the Taurus X turns out to be anouther Mazda in couple years then next vehicle bought will be GMC SUV.

 

 

 

Instead of pushing for Ford to regain and retain market share with loyal customers you and many of the so called know it alls just want to abandon those sales and customers. The attitude is hell let someone else have them. A smilar attitude prevaled in regards to the mid sized sedan about 10 years ago and we all know what the resulting fall out of that was. Ya that was as funny as hell too.

 

Matthew

Edited January 22, 2009 by matthewq4b

[matthewq4b]

So I suppose the Camry is a FAIL also, since it has been refreshed on a similar schedule?

 

 

 

How many times has it been pointed out that the D3's outsold the Panthers? I don't care if it takes the D3's several vehicles to do it. That's the whole point of platform sharing -- to distribute costs. Maybe Ford should have made them RWD so they could sell as well as the Pontiac G8 or Hyundai Genesis. Oh wait.

 

 

With easily 10,000 times the investment. The should not just be out sellign the panthers they should be crushing them in the sales dept with the amount of money Ford has poured in to them in comparision.

 

 

Matthew

[matthewq4b]

The SuperCrew would work great from a utilitarian perspective, but the initial cost of the vehicle and the poor fuel economy would immediately rule it out for any sort of widespread use.

 

 

The lack of securable storage space is an issue as well. Pick up trucks have a place but they will not replace the 4 door sedan as well as the Full size SUV's.

 

Matthew

[Deanh]

I guess you think it is funny that ford is lossing sales and long time customers hell that is real riot.

And yes I did buy a GM almost 20 years ago. But there was no point in buyin a new one as it was what I had already owned for the previous almost 2 decades. So Ford lost a sale unlike most former Panther buyers the damage was as not as extnsive as I bought used so the money went to no manufactuere unlike most others that new vehicles from the competion.

Ya that is real riot side splitting humor there.

 

As for the Tarus X hell we could not buy an new GM or CV as either is now sold to the puplic in Canada the only way you can get one is with a fleet purchase.

 

If the Taurus X turns out to be anouther Mazda in couple years then next vehicle bought will be GMC SUV.

 

 

 

Instead of pushing for Ford to regain and retain market share with loyal customers you and many of the so called know it alls just want to abandon those sales and customers. The attitude is hell let someone else have them. A smilar attitude prevaled in regards to the mid sized sedan about 10 years ago and we all know what the resulting fall out of that was. Ya that was as funny as hell too.

 

Matthew

Matt...by letting the CV out to pasture they lost maybe 8 customers....Ford has moved on to bigger, note, more PROFITABLE markets, ie customers not looking for a vehicle to be buried in........THERE IS NO BUSINESS CASE FOR THE CROWN VICTORIA..case CLOSED!

[matthewq4b]

funny how you guys all incinuate Ford should adapt to the PD's to maintain a barely profitable market segment...yes, I said it. BARELY PROFITABLE, if you doubt me prove it....but realize this, unlike you guys I'm quite in line with aquisition prices AND what Ford puts on the table to remain in good faith with Municipalities, Counties and local Govt's ( see a trend there...the sales are purely POLITICAL brown nosing, Ford does them as a FAVOUR basically, the ACTUAL $ made barely justify the CV;s existance)....truth is ...the municipalities are realizing THEY are in fact the ones that need to adapt...and I for one am witnessing it first hand...and this is in a LARGE market, not some baccy chewing Dukes of Hazzard 5 cars every 5 years market that some here keep using as a case study....the ignorance of some of this diatribe is absolutely ASTOUNDING.

 

 

That barely profitable panther segement adds a 1/4 billion a year to Fords bottom line.

Not exactly barely profitable.

 

Plus there are the spin off sales that they generate as well. And no one can put a price on that. I know in EDM the spin off's from the Vic sales account for over 60% of the totoal volume of Ford vehicles purchased by the city. That barely profitable segment adds a lot to the bottom line in other models. That means for every vic sold it generates over 1 other Ford sale.

[RichardJensen]

So, Matt, it's your assertion that no other Ford product sells on its own merits to the city of Edmonton? They're all selling off the prowess of the Crown Vic?

[RichardJensen]

And another question: If the panther line were so profitable, how come no one has offered to buy STAP from Ford and keep it going to serve the LEO, livery, and taxi fleets?

[Deanh]

That barely profitable panther segement adds a 1/4 billion a year to Fords bottom line.

Not exactly barely profitable.

 

Plus there are the spin off sales that they generate as well. And no one can put a price on that. I know in EDM the spin off's from the Vic sales account for over 60% of the totoal volume of Ford vehicles purchased by the city. That barely profitable segment adds a lot to the bottom line in other models. That means for every vic sold it generates over 1 other Ford sale.

spin off??????????.... what kinda smack are you on?????????who the hell buys another Ford Product based on the virtues of the crown vic...thats friggen hilarious......tell ya what...lets just stop building wevry vehicle in Ford lineup and sink a little into the CV...hell, Ford could just retire, public would come in droves......what DON"T you panther guys understand...hey we could STILL be selling the Model T based on your train of thought......I've worked at a dealership for 20 PLUS years, you are talking out of your proverbial a$$, they were dust gatherers with multiple birthdays barring the oxygen tank totting loyalist looking for a place to rest the $18000 dollars he had budgeted for as vehicle, ( due to the fact he/ she REFUSED to spend more on a car than his/ her first house ).........oh, and BS ON THE 1/4 BILLION....THATS PROBABLY BEFORE GOVT INCENTIVES, THUS GROSS ( and even that is highly suspect )

[matthewq4b]

Matt...by letting the CV out to pasture they lost maybe 8 customers....Ford has moved on to bigger, note, more PROFITABLE markets, ie customers not looking for a vehicle to be buried in........THERE IS NO BUSINESS CASE FOR THE CROWN VICTORIA..case CLOSED!

 

 

Ha I know 8 people alone that jumped ship. Ford has only lost 300K plus yearly sales on the platfrom by not keeping it current. It is not about the car it's self it is about the segement, take off the Panther hating blinders already.

 

The segment is too luctrative stable and profitable to abadon.

 

I seen the swith that happend in 94 when GMC dropped the Caprice prior to that all city vehicles ambualances fire rescue vehicles city fleet cars transit fleet vehicles Parks and Rec EPS the whole works were GMC vehicles. When GMC dropped the Caprice in 94 with in 4 years (1999) the whole city fleet were Ford vehicles.

 

This is a segment that doesn not need to make big dollars it just needs to break even the spin off sales generated are the reward.

 

 

And FYI the milage differance between the CV's and Tahoe in actual use is less than 5%. Initial Cost wise there is not a lot of differance between them. The Expedition can not be bought as cheap as the Tahoe's Proboly the IRS is hampering the price points. GMC has placed the Yukon and the Tahoe to pick up the lost CV sales if Ford cuts it with out a vaiable replacement.

 

This is a serous issue as it will be anouther segment Ford has a strangle hold on that they will walk away from. Some say it is not worth it to stay in it. But the question that has to be asked is what is going to gained by abondoning it. That is the question that should be asked.

 

 

Matthew

[Deanh]

Ha I know 8 people alone that jumped ship. Ford has only lost 300K plus yearly sales on the platfrom by not keeping it current. It is not about the car it's self it is about the segement, take off the Panther hating blinders already.

 

The segment is too luctrative stable and profitable to abadon.

 

I seen the swith that happend in 94 when GMC dropped the Caprice prior to that all city vehicles ambualances fire rescue vehicles city fleet cars transit fleet vehicles Parks and Rec EPS the whole works were GMC vehicles. When GMC dropped the Caprice in 94 with in 4 years (1999) the whole city fleet were Ford vehicles.

 

This is a segment that doesn not need to make big dollars it just needs to break even the spin off sales generated are the reward.

 

 

And FYI the milage differance between the CV's and Tahoe in actual use is less than 5%. Initial Cost wise there is not a lot of differance between them. The Expedition can not be bought as cheap as the Tahoe's Proboly the IRS is hampering the price points. GMC has placed the Yukon and the Tahoe to pick up the lost CV sales if Ford cuts it with out a vaiable replacement.

 

This is a serous issue as it will be anouther segment Ford has a strangle hold on that they will walk away from. Some say it is not worth it to stay in it. But the question that has to be asked is what is going to gained by abondoning it. That is the question that should be asked.

 

 

Matthew

answer...not lucrative ( Ford abandoned retail sales due to complete LACK OF ) stable...uh uh....municipalities go to the CHEAPEST bidder their loyaly ends with their bugetary constraints...Profitable???? go back to the last sentence ...the word specifically is CHEAPEST. Panthers ended up costing their dealers time, Flooring and ultimately had to be sold at losses, boy THATS great PR....finally it is gone and we have SUPERIOR product, so continue whining, you and your bridge club at least have something to talk about after square dancing at the seniors party. Get with the times Mat. embrace it, Ford DID, thats why a business model could NOT be made for the Crown vic, may the gracious old lady rest in peace....failure to embrace change is a major reason Ford got itself into its current bind, thank GOD they listened to the public and NOT Panther faithful....

[rmc523]

matt, you are quite welcome to come and veiw the Black and White Expedition SSV's being delivered out back to several cities.....good luck on LOCKING in todays rebates and incentives on a factory order which will take approx 8 weeks.....last I looked ( 21 years worth ) incentives can only be locked in on RS date, which in turn a car can only be R'sed when status is SHIPPED.....also, several Taurus's have been requested by the Police Depts as undercover vehicles...can we say "tryout"?

 

My local PDs have a few Explorers, Expeditions, and Durangos as police units.

 

Also, I saw on TV, probably a year ago now, that they're using undercover Taruii in the PDs.

[Deanh]

My local PDs have a few Explorers, Expeditions, and Durangos as police units.

 

Also, I saw on TV, probably a year ago now, that they're using undercover Taruii in the PDs.

part of the problem is warehouses FULL of Crown Vic dependent options, municipalities are like Matt, adherant to change and exceptionally stubborn, NOW they are being forced to adapt as they no longer have a choice and Ford cannot justify the overhead just to appese Govt and political factions....funnily enough the mechanics are of the same age as the average Crown vic buyer....and crotchetty to boot....set in their ways for sure....

[matthewq4b]

So, Matt, it's your assertion that no other Ford product sells on its own merits to the city of Edmonton? They're all selling off the prowess of the Crown Vic?

 

 

 

Holy cow you not that thick are you Richard? It comes to economy of scale. It has northing to do with the virtues of the VIC selling other vehicles. But the convenience of dealing with one company or even one dealer (freedom ford is the default supplier to the city) and most importantly one financing company (ford credit)

 

The city like most do not pay out for vehicles they finance a portion of the purchase and also lease a pile as well.

 

The CV is the defacto cruiser used here it has this spot currently by default. No other vehicle currently fills the role as well or cost effectively.

 

Like most municipalities nowadays the city of Edmonton looks to cut costs any way they can.

By dealing with primarily with one auto manufacturer for fleet purchases they cut their administrative costs drastically rather then dealing with umpteen Financing and leasing agencies for large blocks of vehicles.

 

As that is how they buy them in blocks x number of cop cars P/U trucks city fleet vehicles etc.

These vehicles share the same purchase date and is one block of financing thus the city gets a better deal on the financing rates. The accounts dept is dealing with one financing agreement for the vehicles and not multiple ones from many different manufacturers. This makes it easier for the city to cost project the budget as they are only dealing a hand full of fleet finacing agreements and not dozens of them.

 

Also the city does very little to no mait on there own stuff (anouther cost cutting measure) they send all thier stuff to the default reatailer as they get a better labour rate by doing this. There is reason Freedom Ford has about the largest service dept of any Dealer in the city.

 

There is more at stake at you think at first glance.

 

Yes they do buy other stuff usually high end stuff for city managers the Mayor etc as they get to choose what they want and the various non ford police vehicles used for undercover work. But the bulk of the light duty city vehicles Over 95% are Fords and this is due to the default spot the Vic holds. Do not replace the Vic with some thing equivalent and those sales will go to where ever the Police go to get vehicles. As they are the most important service the city has that uses civi type vehicles. And what ever manufacturer they choose is where the city will follow. Edmonton is not the only City that operates this way either.

 

The city of Tornoto was always a user of dodges both for the fleet vehicles and the police when the diplomat was chopped there went to the Caprice and the city fleet followed, when the Caprice cut they moved to the Vic and the city fleet followed as well to Ford.

 

 

The CV is in position that nothing else really can fulfill the role quite as well as it does and until recently municipalities really have had not reason to look else where. Lose the Vic and you potentially loose alot more than just the poilce sales

 

There is more to the picture then you think.

 

 

Matthew