rmc523 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I was thinking differentiation similar to the Flex/MKT, where 2 vehicles share the platform and drivetrain, but no body work or interior. I think a thinly veiled Kuga as a Mercury would be great, with the MKG/MKC styled after the concept C for Lincoln. It would have to have all the luxury tech possible, but that seems to be Ford's direction for Lincoln anyways. Yup, I agree....they need to be differentiated completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) Escape sales were a bit better this month 10,090 units it will be interesting to see if the Kuga sales 4,500 sales from January improve. I just hope Ford know what they are doing if the decide to axe the boxy more roomy Escape for a modern looking jellymoulded cramped Kuga. Gotta agree with the comments posted keep both and bring the Kuga in as Mercury if it starts to do well then change the next updated model to Kuga to a Ford, but l can't help but think they will be eating in to each others sales in the same way the imported European Mk1 Capri eat into Mustang sales with 500,000 Capri sales in the early 70's, no wonder Ford US pulled the plug on the Capri at the time. It was not a very popular Europe it sent the sales of most sports car sales charts to zero as well. Edited March 3, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Escape sales were a bit better this month 10,090 units it will be interesting to see if the Kuga sales 4,500 sales from January improve. I just hope Ford know what they are doing if the decide to axe the boxy more roomy Escape for a modern looking jellymoulded cramped Kuga. First off, the Kuga won't be arriving until it is redesigned -- likely larger. Didn't we already cover this? Gotta agree with the comments posted keep both and bring the Kuga in as Mercury if it starts to do well then change the next updated model to Kuga to a Ford, but l can't help but think they will be eating in to each others sales in the same way the imported European Mk1 Capri eat into Mustang sales with 500,000 Capri sales in the early 70's, no wonder Ford US pulled the plug on the Capri at the time. It was not a very popular Europe it sent the sales of most sports car sales charts to zero as well. Second off, if you really think the only reason Ford pulled the plug on the Capri was to protect the Mustang.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) Second off, if you really think the only reason Ford pulled the plug on the Capri was to protect the Mustang.... If anything was selling 500,000 units it would be eating into sales 3,000 Mustang sales this month would not have eat much into the 500,000 European made Capri exports sales in the early 70's No it was not just that Nick the exchange rate was absolute crap at the time as well. Edited March 3, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 If anything was selling 500,000 units it would be eating into sales 3,000 Mustang sales this month would not have eat much into the 500,000 European made Capri exports sales in the early 70's In order to make anywhere even CLOSE to a valid comparison, you need to look at Mustang numbers from the same time span, which I assure you were far higher than 500,000. If you are even suggesting that a new Capri now would somehow be fairing any better than the current Mustang, once again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 If anything was selling 500,000 units it would be eating into sales 3,000 Mustang sales this month would not have eat much into the 500,000 European made Capri exports sales in the early 70's No it was not just that Nick the exchange rate was absolute crap at the time as well. leads me to this question...are capris long shorts or short longs????????????............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 leads me to this question...are capris long shorts or short longs????????????............ My grandma called them "pedal pushers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Cragg_Dearborn Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Here's a thought, why not use the name it's called everywhere else in the world - Kuga? According to CSM's latest vehicle production Forecast, the new Escape/Mariner (C520) will have an SOP of 7/2011. There is also a C521 simply referred to as a "small CUV" with SOP of 10/2011. This is probably the Kuga. It's on the same C1 platform as the Escape/Mariner. The preliminary volume projection is 35k/yr. Also on the C1 platform are the following: CMAX (C344), Focus (C346), Transit Connect (V408N), and a Misc. Small Car (C346) that will likely be the high performance 300hp focus that's been talked about lately. So the Kuga will be a separate vehicle from the Escape, but maybe with a new name. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 So the Kuga will be a separate vehicle from the Escape, but maybe with a new name. Mistake in my opinion. So Ford is going to have an Escape, Kuga, and C-Max all at once? I don't see how that is sustainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Mistake in my opinion. So Ford is going to have an Escape, Kuga, and C-Max all at once? I don't see how that is sustainable. Sounds like they want to bombard the market with choice. If they're cheap enough to produce, it not a massive expense and maybe it leaves Ford critics gasping.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Sounds like they want to bombard the market with choice.If they're cheap enough to produce, it not a massive expense and maybe it leaves Ford critics gasping.. The reason C1 was not brought here in the first place was cost. Now suddenly they can afford to build two vehicles on the architecture which will undoubtedly sell in lower volumes than the Focus? I smell some fuzzy math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 The reason C1 was not brought here in the first place was cost. Now suddenly they can afford to build two vehicles on the architecture which will undoubtedly sell in lower volumes than the Focus? I smell some fuzzy math. How many of these will be Mercury though? And maybe Lincoln? I wouldn't count on them all wearing the blue oval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 How many of these will be Mercury though? And maybe Lincoln? I wouldn't count on them all wearing the blue oval. I doubt we'll be seeing any of them brought here as only a Mercury or Lincoln. If it comes for one of those brands, it will come for Ford also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) The reason C1 was not brought here in the first place was cost. Now suddenly they can afford to build two vehicles on the architecture which will undoubtedly sell in lower volumes than the Focus? I smell some fuzzy math. Exports to europe and ROW? The USA and Mexico will no doubt be cheaper than Europe for making C1s and Fiesta as well. I agree, three plants devoted to C1 products is massive volume, can't help feeling it's an over reaction. Edited March 3, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 The reason C1 was not brought here in the first place was cost. Now suddenly they can afford to build two vehicles on the architecture which will undoubtedly sell in lower volumes than the Focus? I smell some fuzzy math. Nick, it wasn't so much the variable (per unit) cost that kept the C1 from coming to the US. It was the investment at the assembly plant; it was more of a capital budget issue. Now Ford has no choice but to tool the new platform, so they have to provide the models that they believe will fill the plant. Once you have the initial investment done, derivatives are not that expensive (say around $100 million and up depending on uniqueness). I don't really know how Ford is setting up Louisville, but I would think it would be capable of producing both next-gen Focus plus derivatives. And I wouldn't be too surprised if it were also set up to flex next-gen Fusion/Mondeo and/or derivatives. In particular, those derivatives that might be too large for Hermosillo's e-coat dip and paint shop (S-Max or Galaxy type of vehicles for instance). Louisville's e-coat and paint is scaled for Explorers, so there is good capability for larger vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 The reason C1 was not brought here in the first place was cost. Now suddenly they can afford to build two vehicles on the architecture which will undoubtedly sell in lower volumes than the Focus? I smell some fuzzy math. There will be more than 2 vehicles. S-Max, Focus, Escape, Transit Connect, and another vehicle that hasn't been named yet. Add to that the rumored C based Mercury and Lincoln vehicles, and I see two plants running strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Mistake in my opinion. So Ford is going to have an Escape, Kuga, and C-Max all at once? I don't see how that is sustainable. reflections of Buick, pontiac, Oldsmobile.....don't do it ford, KISS.....( keep it simple stupid )...there is ZERO need for the Escape AND the Kuga, a revamped Kuga will/ should in fact REPLACE the Escape. C-max? how are sales of the Mazda 5 just for comparative purposes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) According to CSM's latest vehicle production Forecast, the new Escape/Mariner (C520) will have an SOP of 7/2011. There is also a C521 simply referred to as a "small CUV" with SOP of 10/2011. This is probably the Kuga. It's on the same C1 platform as the Escape/Mariner. The preliminary volume projection is 35k/yr. Also on the C1 platform are the following: CMAX (C344), Focus (C346), Transit Connect (V408N), and a Misc. Small Car (C346) that will likely be the high performance 300hp focus that's been talked about lately. So the Kuga will be a separate vehicle from the Escape, but maybe with a new name. Bryan I was reading C.A.R.'s October 2008 report and on their report for Ford EU car production in U.S. plants are Focus [C346] Michigan Truck (Wayne), MI CY2010 PV-21,424, CY2011 PV-204,450 Focus [C346] Louisville KY CY2011 PV-22,526, CY2012 PV-45,670 C-Max [C344] Wayne MI CY2011 PV-33,486, CY2012 PV-42,764 From another C.A.R. report (Q2 2008 reporting date) Current Escape [u377] changing CY2011 to Escape [C394N] Kansas City #1 MO. Mercury Mariner [u377] ending production CY2011, and Lincoln Small CUV [C506] CY2011 Kansas City #1 MO. I came across some Feb.26, 2009 info from FoMoCo on Ford South American details, Ford South America. In South America, 2009 will demonstrate the growing strength of our "One Ford" plan. We are bringing the new European-based Ford Focus to Brazil, Argentina, and Venezuela. Also in Brazil, the North American-based Ford Edge will arrive in dealerships, along with the European-based Transit, building on Ford South America's business and product success. Six additional product actions also are planned for introduction in the region in 2009. Source : http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/10-k...&dist=msr_1 Edited March 4, 2009 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Mercury Mariner [u377] ending production CY2011, and Lincoln Small CUV [C506] CY2011 Kansas City #1 MO. Looks like another loss for Mercury......sad days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Well the only thing I can think of that would make sense is that the new Kuga replacing the Escape could come down market more so it slots better with the Edge/Explorer/Flex..seems to have some issues with it rubbing up against the Edge at this point, besides having SUV like styling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 There will be more than 2 vehicles. S-Max, Focus, Escape, Transit Connect, and another vehicle that hasn't been named yet. Add to that the rumored C based Mercury and Lincoln vehicles, and I see two plants running strong. Hope they have their ducks in a row. I'm sure the flex-manufacturing will help reduce costs to a point, but unless the market as a whole increases in size again, I don't see how they could sell so many small CUV's in sufficient volumes to eek out a profit on them. :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.