Ford Delays Diesel for F-150

[theoldwizard]

...A cracked DPF is covered under warranty yes. Show ONE instance where a soot filled DPF will get changed out under warranty. It is like a catalytic converter, when it's spent, it's spent. Fork over some money for a new one...

DPF (like catalytic converters) are designed to last for a long, Long, LONG tine (I hesitate to say "the life of the vehicle" because there are way too many variable in that equation). Neither of these two emission control devices are "spent" (i.e. there is nothing inside either that gets "used up") if the rest of the system is operating properly.

[F250]

And how much more opening behind the grill is there over the '10 F-150 vs the 09 F-150? It doesnt look to me that there has been a huge change (besides shape) that would make the '10 more diesel friendly for cooling...

 

The red truck is an '09 they are the same as the '10 (P415)

The other truck is an '04 - '08 (P221) actually the one in the picture has the front bumper bar and round lights so it is an '06-'08.

 

When Ford introduced the P415 some people (like me) didn't care much for the look of the new F-150. It looks like they tried to jam a Super Duty grille (and dash) on the F-150 which screwed up a good looking truck.

 

Some people here suggested the oversized fat assed grille was needed for cooling requirements of the planned new diesel engine. The same excuse was offered when the Super Duty-like grille was grafted to the Econoline.

 

If that's not the case then Ford just completely screwed up the style for nothing.

[F250]

I concur. Even the new 5.0L would not tow as well as a 4.4L. But then again, how much towing to F150s owners do.

 

As someone else pointed out that perhaps Ford was concerned that the 4.4L F150 would be "too good" and steal sales from from the F250 Diesel.

 

Well since Ford goes to a lot of trouble to make sure the F-150 has class leading towing capability they know a good percentage of owners tow with them.

 

And what would Ford care if F-150 "stole sales" from the Super Dutys since Ford considers them all F-Series sales.

[twintornados]

How old are you? 10? 8?

Noah....it wasn't so much the "I was right and he was wrong", but when I proved my case... he still insisted that I was wrong. That truly bothered me since when I am wrong I will admit it. He does have some valid points to add to a discussion, but when you are incorrect and insist that you are not wrong when the overwhelming evidence is contrary to your position...it makes all the other points you are trying to make moot. theoldwizard has restored my faith in his word by finally admitting that he was incorrect in his insistence that Econoline no longer had Twin I Beams for it's front suspension setup. I thanked him for his honesty.

 

As for your question...I am 45.

[F250]

Guys,a huge ammount of diesel customers buy a diesel for the "status" of it. Believe it or not, I sell F250 diesels to folks that at most might tow a small boat or just go to Lowes or Home Depot for some Mulch..most just "drive them around". That is the market the 150 diesel would cater to. There would be a huge market for that...I think one of Ford's reasons is the diesel 150 could canibalize Super Duty sales.

 

While individual buyers do purchase Lariats with the diesel engine option the largest percentage of diesels are Super Duty chassis and XL work trucks, hardly just for "status."

[fordmantpw]

And what would Ford care if F-150 "stole sales" from the Super Dutys since Ford considers them all F-Series sales.

 

They make more $$$ off the SD.

[silvrsvt]

If that's not the case then Ford just completely screwed up the style for nothing.

 

The thing is that Ford wanted to do something different with the truck vs keeping it looking the same as it did previously.

 

The 04 F-150 and the 02 Explorer shared the same problem, they had timeless Truck and SUV looks to them that was hard to improve upon.

 

Some of the '10 Models Grills aren't the best, but they don't look nearly as bad as they do in person, such as peoples complants with the '10 Fusion Grill

 

Here are my fav Current F-150 packages...notice both of them don't have a chrome grill on them

 

 

[silvrsvt]

While individual buyers do purchase Lariats with the diesel engine option the largest percentage of diesels are Super Duty chassis and XL work trucks, hardly just for "status."

 

Thats part of his problem, hes too myopic when it comes to sales, which is understandable since thats what "sells" in his area not the US market as a whole. What someone wants in one state might be totally different then what is sold in another.

[rmc523]

The thing is that Ford wanted to do something different with the truck vs keeping it looking the same as it did previously.

 

The 04 F-150 and the 02 Explorer shared the same problem, they had timeless Truck and SUV looks to them that was hard to improve upon.

 

Some of the '10 Models Grills aren't the best, but they don't look nearly as bad as they do in person, such as peoples complants with the '10 Fusion Grill

 

Here are my fav Current F-150 packages...notice both of them don't have a chrome grill on them

 

 

 

The Harley-Davidson has a chrome grille.......all the horizontal slats are chrome.

[silvrsvt]

The Harley-Davidson has a chrome grille.......all the horizontal slats are chrome.

 

Yes it does, but its not as in your face as some of the other F-150 models like the Platinum Trim or the XLT listed above.

[rmc523]

Yes it does, but its not as in your face as some of the other F-150 models like the Platinum Trim or the XLT listed above.

 

I think the Platinum is more constrained in grille design than others like the Lariat or King Ranch models.

 

There is NO chrome on the Platinum's grille. It's all silver-painted plastic, which I suppose is supposed to look like aluminum or something.

 

 

Compared to the Lariat:

 

 

or the King Ranch:

 

Edited May 11, 2009 by rmc523

[Tornado]

The STX is the best looking with the body color painted grille.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Tornado

[ironhorse]

I have NEVER understood why there were so many grilles on so many different F150 models now.

[fordmantpw]

I have NEVER understood why there were so many grilles on so many different F150 models now.

 

Because it is a cheap and easy way to differentiate the models on the outside. My favorite grille is the Platinum followed by the painted FX4.

[theoldwizard]

Because it is a cheap and easy way to differentiate the models on the outside. My favorite grille is the Platinum followed by the painted FX4.

... and very profitable ! Check the price tag on a Platinum.

[toyboxrv]

"So far I haven't seen any real costs with a diesel using urea, so you're just talking BS. The DPF is an emissions control device so yes it is covered by warranty. Where do you get the higher oil change cost from a downstream emissions device?"

 

So you think they are going to give the urea away for free? The tank will need topped off with every oil change.

A cracked DPF is covered under warranty yes. Show ONE instance where a soot filled DPF will get changed out under warranty. It is like a catalytic converter, when it's spent, it's spent. Fork over some money for a new one.

Diesels have larger oil pan reservoirs so yes, oil changes cost more than a gasser. I never said they cost more from an emission device.

With the SAME 19ft toyhauler my F-150 got better mileage than my 6.4L F-250. The 250 ate up hills and pulled great , but never passed a fuel station.

 

 

I didn't say it was free.

 

Show one instance where a DPF would get clogged on a correctly functioning truck. Show where a DPF would not be fixed under the federal emissions device warranty requirement.

 

Diesels have always had more oil. Having a DPF doesn't change that.

 

So driving slower and being in everyone's way makes for a better tow vehicle?

 

Notice how several people have disagreed with you?

[Hydro]

I didn't say it was free.

 

Show one instance where a DPF would get clogged on a correctly functioning truck. Show where a DPF would not be fixed under the federal emissions device warranty requirement.

 

Ford has re-programmed the trucks to NOT regen at idle. Now, in order for a complete regen you need to drive over 40mph for a given time (long enough to burn the soot). An everyday driver that doesn't go on the highway will never achieve a complete regen and the truck WILL go into limp mode if they ignore the "drive to clean exhaust" warning long enough. Hell, they may not know that means?

 

Diesels have always had more oil. Having a DPF doesn't change that.

 

Never said a DPF increases the amount of oil needed? Don't know where you are getting that? I do know regens contaminate the oil more than non DPF trucks. 6% fuel is now acceptable for the oil sent in for analysis.

 

 

Notice how several people have disagreed with you?

 

I'll bet the farm they have never owned a DPF equipped diesel. They only hear how great diesels are(were)and don't realize all the Bullshit the EPA has mandated on these trucks to make them shitty.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Hydro

[Hydro]

I do know the current 6.4L is NOT the best on fuel economy, but don't condemn a new engine before it gets a chance to prove itself.

 

One of the reason Ford wanted out of the Navistar "deal" was to develop new diesel emission control technology (like urea) WITHOUT having to share the technology with Navistar. Yes, urea is not unique to Ford, but how they use it along with revised regeneration cycles will make a huge difference in both performance and fuel economy.

 

The engine is fine. The 6.4's we've toyed with (DPF removed, Spartan or SCT tuners) run like rapped apes and perform great. With a DPF, EGR, DOC and regens the fun is over!

Edited May 11, 2009 by Hydro

[Hydro]

DPF (like catalytic converters) are designed to last for a long, Long, LONG tine (I hesitate to say "the life of the vehicle" because there are way too many variable in that equation). Neither of these two emission control devices are "spent" (i.e. there is nothing inside either that gets "used up") if the rest of the system is operating properly.

Isn't the soot trap part of the DPF? If so, the life expectancy is just over 100k miles. Like you said too many variables to get an exact number, but it will need changed.

[toyboxrv]

Ford has re-programmed the trucks to NOT regen at idle. Now, in order for a complete regen you need to drive over 40mph for a given time (long enough to burn the soot). An everyday driver that doesn't go on the highway will never achieve a complete regen and the truck WILL go into limp mode if they ignore the "drive to clean exhaust" warning long enough. Hell, they may not know that means?

 

 

 

Never said a DPF increases the amount of oil needed? Don't know where you are getting that? I do know regens contaminate the oil more than non DPF trucks. 6% fuel is now acceptable for the oil sent in for analysis.

 

 

 

 

I'll bet the farm they have never owned a DPF equipped diesel. They only hear how great diesels are(were)and don't realize all the Bullshit the EPA has mandated on these trucks to make them shitty.

 

I won't have a problem driving over 40 on a regular basis. Trying to convince me I don't need a 4.4L diesel, but need an ecoboost V6 instead, is a waste of time.

 

You bring up the problem of the DPF and then mention oil capacity. That hasn't changed for over a decade, so why bring it up. Most people going for a diesel already know that.

 

You haven't driven a 4.4L either, so why tell us about all the problems you can't prove exist?

[Hydro]

I won't have a problem driving over 40 on a regular basis. Trying to convince me I don't need a 4.4L diesel, but need an ecoboost V6 instead, is a waste of time.

 

I understand you prefer the diesel over gas, that's fine . I was just trying to prove that there isn't a whole lot we are missing by Ford not offering it. Naturally many will disagree, but I'm POSITIVE Ford doesn't want to deal with diesel warranty claims right about now. They are working on their reliability image and keeping cost down. It's proven diesels leak and break down more often than gassers causing greater warranty claims. It's just nature of the beast, way more emission crap, picky fuel system, egr issues because diesel exhaust is sticky nasty shit, etc..

 

You bring up the problem of the DPF and then mention oil capacity. That hasn't changed for over a decade, so why bring it up. Most people going for a diesel already know that.

 

True, but many first timers are going to be shocked with the maintenence cost . They aren't like gassers where oil changes are about all you do for the first 50k miles. By then a diesel will need 4 sets of fuel filters, couple air filters, urea top offs, and draining the fuel seperator periodically. A little overwhelming for a non-educated first timer.

 

You haven't driven a 4.4L either, so why tell us about all the problems you can't prove exist?

 

I'm proving that DPF's are just crappy, any new diesel equipped with them may have these problems. Here's an excellent link on how ANY DPF works... they are all the same.. :reading:

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-07-03.php

Edited May 12, 2009 by Hydro

[rmc523]

Because it is a cheap and easy way to differentiate the models on the outside. My favorite grille is the Platinum followed by the painted FX4.

 

I'd probably share your opinion......I fully agree on the Platinum, though.

[toyboxrv]

I understand you prefer the diesel over gas, that's fine . I was just trying to prove that there isn't a whole lot we are missing by Ford not offering it. Naturally many will disagree, but I'm POSITIVE Ford doesn't want to deal with diesel warranty claims right about now. They are working on their reliability image and keeping cost down. It's proven diesels leak and break down more often than gassers causing greater warranty claims. It's just nature of the beast, way more emission crap, picky fuel system, egr issues because diesel exhaust is sticky nasty shit, etc..

 

 

 

True, but many first timers are going to be shocked with the maintenence cost . They aren't like gassers where oil changes are about all you do for the first 50k miles. By then a diesel will need 4 sets of fuel filters, couple air filters, urea top offs, and draining the fuel seperator periodically. A little overwhelming for a non-educated first timer.

 

 

 

I'm proving that DPF's are just crappy, any new diesel equipped with them may have these problems. Here's an excellent link on how ANY DPF works... they are all the same.. :reading:

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-07-03.php

 

Ford's reliability issues were with the International diesels. You have no proof that they would have that problem with their own. Pure speculation.

 

Another stupid, unfounded observation. The diesels I've had didn't leak and break down more often and I had a 6.5 L GM. It went 90k before the supposedly failure prone fuel solenoid driver was replaced under warranty. The pump went 170k before replacement. Fuel filters were half what you say. One K&N filter that was still there when I sold the truck with 264k on it. Never ever drained any water separator in any of my diesels and have driven over half a million miles with them. You still don't know how much urea costs, so why make a big deal of it?

[Hydro]

after this i'm done, no need to go on. You have your beliefs and I have my proof.

Any plug or hiccup with a common rail fuel system means disaster (20,000psi). In order to prevent that, you NEED to change your filters on time not when your fuel mileage drops off or pressure. Put a K&N filter on todays diesels and kiss your warranty good bye, plus it will throw codes on the computer, and unless you have a programmer to clear them, Ford will know. If you never drained the water seperator then you'll void Ford warranty, watch the 6.4L dvd and it CLEARLY explains this needs done.... oh wait you never owned a modern diesel. Once again, fuel system protection. Why let water get into a piezo injector and f*ck everything up, drain the damn thing periodically.

Urea is and will be an added cost, it is a big deal because it means an added cost over a gasser oil change.

 

Good night.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Hydro

[94bronco]

Ford has re-programmed the trucks to NOT regen at idle. Now, in order for a complete regen you need to drive over 40mph for a given time (long enough to burn the soot). An everyday driver that doesn't go on the highway will never achieve a complete regen and the truck WILL go into limp mode if they ignore the "drive to clean exhaust" warning long enough. Hell, they may not know that means?

 

 

 

Never said a DPF increases the amount of oil needed? Don't know where you are getting that? I do know regens contaminate the oil more than non DPF trucks. 6% fuel is now acceptable for the oil sent in for analysis.

 

 

 

 

I'll bet the farm they have never owned a DPF equipped diesel. They only hear how great diesels are(were)and don't realize all the Bullshit the EPA has mandated on these trucks to make them shitty.

Your not the only one who thinks DPF diesels suck, My friend has a 7.3 Powerstroke and bought a 6.4 last year and could not believe the shit it was doing ( Horrible gas mialege, Regen mode bullshit) and eventually got so sick of the POS that he took all the DPF crap off and got a tuner and gets over 20 MPG on the highway in it now with a lot more power and plenty of black smoke pouring out the tailpipe!