akirby Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 However, just remember there is no science to back up that position. Peace and Blessings Just ask yourself if the tables were turned and homosexuality was normal - would you be able to start dating or having feelings for guys? Of course not. That tells me that it's not a choice - they're born that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 The far right and their conservative religious allies will never admit to the possibilities of genetics being the factor that determines sexual orientation, lest it torpedoes the reason behind their morality plays. Any idea that says someone's actions are predetermined by their gentics is racism, plain and simple. So despite your intentions, you are in fact a rascist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Just ask yourself if the tables were turned and homosexuality was normal - would you be able to start dating or having feelings for guys? Of course not. That tells me that it's not a choice - they're born that way. Feeling is the product of experience. Therefore, you're theory is an impossibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 You sure about that? http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80628205430.htm Fairly. http://www.narth.com/menus/search.html?cx=...e&sa=go#934 Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Any idea that says someone's actions are predetermined by their gentics is racism, plain and simple. So despite your intentions, you are in fact a rascist. Not hardy, since race isn't the factor. Sexual orientation is. Race is also determined by genetics at birth, but that's not what we're talking about. You're off base on this one. Definition of race: Link Here Definition of racism: Link Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Just ask yourself if the tables were turned and homosexuality was normal - would you be able to start dating or having feelings for guys? Of course not. That tells me that it's not a choice - they're born that way. Few if any people are born desiring to have sexual relations with same sex, children, or worse. There is naturally less desire to have affection for something outside the norm then for it. Especially when it goes against most every culture in the world. So that tells me it is a choice. --- These are people with deep seeded challenges. Better to look at rape, molest, and other abuses suffered by people as the cause for their inability to have normal relations with Both sexes. Think about the huge numbers of reported and unreported child and adult victims of sexual molestation, as well as physically and emotionally abused adults and children and you Will find the cause. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang84isu Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) Fairly. http://www.narth.com/menus/search.html?cx=...e&sa=go#934 Peace and Blessings Your source is a website that claims homosexuality can be "treated" in their position statement. Mainstream American medical and scientific organizations reject conversion therapy as ineffective at best, and harmful at worst. American Psychiatric Association states that "efforts to repathologize homosexuality by claiming that it can be cured are often guided not by rigorous scientific or psychiatric research, but sometimes by religious and political forces opposed to full civil rights for gay men and lesbians" The American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the National Association of Social Workers has stated: "Sexual orientation has proved to be generally impervious to interventions intended to change it, which are sometimes referred to as “reparative therapy.” No scientifically adequate research has shown that such interventions are effective or safe. Moreover, because homosexuality is a normal variant of human sexuality, national mental health organizations do not encourage individuals to try to change their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Therefore, all major national mental health organizations have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that purport to change sexual orientation. The statement of the American Psychiatric Association cautions that “[t]he potential risks of ‘reparative therapy’ are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior.”"[37] Major organizations that reject therapy to change sexual orientation include the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Counseling Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Association of School Administrators, the American Federation of Teachers, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Education Association.[38] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Asso...f_Homosexuality Edited September 13, 2009 by mustang84isu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Fairly. http://www.narth.com/menus/search.html?cx=...e&sa=go#934 Peace and Blessings Absolute nonsense from a group of far right, religious based non-science/pseudo-science that claims that sexual orientation can be changed or treaded as phsychological disorder. The fact that this crap gets posted as an alternate point of view is disingenuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Any idea that says someone's actions are predetermined by their gentics is racism, plain and simple. So despite your intentions, you are in fact a rascist. I would not go that far, Versa. I acknowledge that some things can be genetically-based (including some behaviors). I'd just call them birth defects. Not what you could refer to as normal, unless by "normal" you really mean "common". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang84isu Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 You can put me in that group.Same here for the most part. Pretty much one of the reasons that I wasn't even considering the GOP last election, and depending on who rises to the top, may not consider them again. the far right and their conservative religious allies put far too much emphasis on their morality plays for my taste, and far too much intrusion into personal lives, especially for a group of people who otherwise promote the idea of less government. I think that's why the incident that is the topic of this thread stand out so much, as well as making their call for less government look hypocritical. Count me in as another ex-Republican turned Independent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Any idea that says someone's actions are predetermined by their gentics is racism, plain and simple. So despite your intentions, you are in fact a rascist. Homosexuality exists in all races. Lighten up. Corky & the Juice Pigs , I'm the only Gay Eskimo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiEm875PqdY...feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Homosexuality is not confined to the human race. The know what causes it now and potentially have the means to cure it. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain. There was an article on some research in to this being done here in Canada If I can find it again I will post the link. Basically the jist of it is the researchers were able to surgically induce homosexual behavior in rats and then able to treat it with medication. They know exactly what the defect is that causes homosexual behavior. And can treat it. Now this is with rats mind you. And I do not believe there are any plans for human trials. They did not not go so far as out right calling it a disease but hinted at such saying that it is a genetic inherited anomaly such as sickle cell. Needless to say this opens a whole moral bag of snakes. If homosexuality is in fact a disease and it is treatable what does that mean for society ? Any one that believes it is life style choice is delusional. Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Homosexuality is not confined to the human race. The know what causes it now and potentially have the means to cure it. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain. There was an article on some research in to this being done here in Canada If I can find it again I will post the link. Basically the jist of it is the researchers were able to surgically induce homosexual behavior in rats and then able to treat it with medication. They know exactly what the defect is that causes homosexual behavior. And can treat it. Now this is with rats mind you. And I do not believe there are any plans for human trials. They did not not go so far as out right calling it a disease but hinted at such saying that it is a genetic inherited anomaly such as sickle cell. Needless to say this opens a whole moral bag of snakes. If homosexuality is in fact a disease and it is treatable what does that mean for society ? Any one that believes it is life style choice is delusional. Matthew "delusional" is an excellent word to describe the far right/religious right's beliefs and attitudes on sexuality and sexual orientation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Your source is a website that claims homosexuality can be "treated" in their position statement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Asso...f_Homosexuality Sure. However, a major group. The Psychiatrists or what ever and whom ever runs the DSM 4 has concluded there is basically nothing genetic around homosexuality. Do they have a dog in the race? Sure. Are they a sizable group of educated people that looked at it for a very long time? Yes. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Absolute nonsense from a group of far right, religious based non-science/pseudo-science that claims that sexual orientation can be changed or treaded as phsychological disorder. The fact that this crap gets posted as an alternate point of view is disingenuous. DSM 4 is not far right. If anything, it would be far far left as it is the psychological field of study. An immensely liberal field of study. American Psychiatric Association Currently down, but the equiv to the AMA. I believe they created the DSM and it is widely respected and accepted. NOTE: I am not much for psychology. FYI - My wife is a psychologist, my sister a PHD in psychiatry, and her husband a MD in psychiatry. Think I have those last two correct as in my sister can not prescribe meds. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Homosexuality is not confined to the human race. The know what causes it now and potentially have the means to cure it. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain. There was an article on some research in to this being done here in Canada If I can find it again I will post the link. Basically the jist of it is the researchers were able to surgically induce homosexual behavior in rats and then able to treat it with medication. They know exactly what the defect is that causes homosexual behavior. And can treat it. Now this is with rats mind you. And I do not believe there are any plans for human trials. They did not not go so far as out right calling it a disease but hinted at such saying that it is a genetic inherited anomaly such as sickle cell. Needless to say this opens a whole moral bag of snakes. If homosexuality is in fact a disease and it is treatable what does that mean for society ? Any one that believes it is life style choice is delusional. Matthew That may very well be. However, depression would also be in that very same category, something many in the gay community suffer from disproportionally, and not something I would wish upon anyone. It is a debilitating, destructive, and often deadly life caused by circumstances and chemical imbalances. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 DSM 4 is not far right. If anything, it would be far far left as it is the psychological field of study. An immensely liberal field of study. American Psychiatric Association Currently down, but the equiv to the AMA. I believe they created the DSM and it is widely respected and accepted. NOTE: I am not much for psychology. FYI - My wife is a psychologist, my sister a PHD in psychiatry, and her husband a MD in psychiatry. Think I have those last two correct as in my sister can not prescribe meds. Peace and Blessings The MD is the only one that can prescribe meds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 It is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Matthew, it's more than a chemical imbalance, honest. They have done PET and CAT scans and autopsies, and there are structural differences, as well as operational differences, how the brain reacts to stimulus. What is not known is whether there is a genetic coding in the DNA to produce this, or if it is a result of "secondary" genetic coding that affects how the endocrine system operates, which will affect how the brain develops as the human ages. It is not known whether the coding for the endocrine system's operation is set at conception, or whether it is affected by the environment, by, for example, the hormone-like effect of chemical pollutants, like some plastics, which mimic female hormones. We will know a lot more in 5-10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 There has never been any solid proof that homosexuality is caused by biological factors. The "research" tends to be junk science that falls apart upon closer examination. And please know that there are people who have switched their sexual preferences later in life; open-minded, informed people realize that this is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 And yet you present nothing to back that up. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) And yet you present nothing to back that up. Interesting. Neither has anyone else to back up their claims. Interesting. I will tell you that I have particapted in discussions on this very site back when you were probably still in high school, and I was able to easily refute the "evidence" presented. Read about John Maynard Keynes. He preferred men as a youth; he then slept with a woman at age 40, and then switched to women for the rest of his life. For that matter, read about Anne Heche, who was with a man, dumped him to live with Ellen DeGeneres, broke up with HER to marry a man (by whom she had a son), and divorced him to live with the man who co-starred in her series. And there are two men I know who were having sex with men during their 20s (and not involved with any women), and are now married to women and are no longer attracted to men. If you want to doubt this, feel free to, but, as I said, it's best to approach this subject with an open mind. Edited September 14, 2009 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Human sexuality comes in every stripe imaginable. It is better thought of as a continuum than as a set of polar opposites. Spend some time in the gay community and you will realize that there is a very broad range of what is gay. Once you see this in the gay community, it becomes apparent that the same broad range applies to the straight community. Sexual drive is instinctual. Instinctual behavior is still one of the great unknows. Perhaps some day there will be real science, but for now all we have is conjecture and supposition. The funny thing is that we some how expect politicians to be above any kind of instinctual behavior. Frankly, Bill Clinton became the greatest man alive when he convinced a majority of American women that a blow job was not sex and therefore not a violation of wedding vows. We all owe him a debt of gratitude for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Frankly, Bill Clinton became the greatest man alive when he convinced a majority of American women that a blow job was not sex and therefore not a violation of wedding vows. We all owe him a debt of gratitude for clearing that up. Sarcasm at it's finest, I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 And there are two men I know who were having sex with men during their 20s (and not involved with any women), and are now married to women and are no longer attracted to men. as far as you know......... Do you think someone could "cure" you from being attracted to women? Of course not! That's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 as far as you know......... Do you think someone could "cure" you from being attracted to women? Of course not! That's ridiculous. Nothing could "cure" me from being attracted to women, and that's after spending most of 21 years as a divorce lawyer and my own divorce. :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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